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      06-20-2012, 06:27 AM   #51
Efthreeoh
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Drives: The E90 + Z4 Coupe & Z3 R'ster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
ENINTY/CASPER/Efthreeoh,
Have you ever stopped and actually thought about why you were banned from this board, not once, but twice. You really should.

No one cares about manipulated performance data of Fiero in a BMW forum. I'll remind you that the thread title is "The BMW Z1 Turns 25. Back to the Future". Yet every post from you has been about a turd on wheels called the Fiero. We can all recognize that some members of this society have bad taste, but repeated viewings of someone digitally osculating them self over a Fiero is kind of sad.

Since your feathers are ruffled that I never countered, let's revisit my third post. There you will find that I kicked the legs out on the Fiero was first belief. Spoiler alert, GM was not the first.
So again, without insult or inuendo, I will eplain why you are wrong and have not in any of your posts "kicked the legs out" of anything.

Here's your complete 3rd post (insults retained too):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifton View Post
I think if I were going to spend as much time as you have to pollute a thread, I would at least try and be correct with my history. For example, the Fiero was not the first monocoque-framed car. I would tell you who was, but as a growth opportunity, I think you should research for yourself. Further, plastic body panels were already in use on cars well before the Fiero.

Perhaps the point you were struggling to make was that Pontiac "borrowed" those fuel saving ideas from other car companies. Which is mildly interesting, but as you can see has no relevance within a BMW forum and is a little weak when attempting to discredit the Z1's for similar advancements.

And if you are genuinely consumed with setting some kind of meaningless record straight, it seems silly to do so within a small internet forum in a thread titled "The BMW Z1 Turns 25. Back to the Future." There again, by definition, is the open door that trolls live for.


PS: For the record, I am not insulting anyone. I'm simply letting the hot air escape from an over inflated balloon.
First off you’ve disassociated the use of the two technologies under discussion here, whereas BMW in the press release speaks to both the use of a self-supporting monocoque frame WITH bolt-on, no load-bearing plastic panels for the body as a new and innovative way to build an automobile. The concept of a monocoque (unit construction) body certainly is not new (almost every car since the 50’s is build that way) and there were monocoque chassis cars well before 1983. But the point I made was the combined use of a monocoque frame AND plastic panels was first developed and put into mass production by GM with the Fiero. I’ve not claimed the Fiero was the first monocoque framed (or chassis) car.

Second, you’re just plain wrong about the use of plastic panels in mass produced cars. If you count the Corvette, then sure there was use of plastic in car construction, but the Corvette is fiberglass and not of a monocoque frame design. The C5 did use Sheet Molded Compound (SMC) for the clamshell hood (as some of the panels of the Fiero were SMC too). But we all know who builds the Corvette and the C5 was introduced about the same time as the Fiero as a 1984 model.

And then you suggest Pontiac used other companies concepts to achieve it high fuel mileage rating, but alas you cite no such technology. The Fiero used GM’s aged Iron Duke four banger and corporate V6 engines with contemporary for the time intake and exhaust technologies.

And then finally there's the picture of the flaming 2M4. Yes, the first-year production Fieros had issues with engine fires due to poorly manufactured connecting rods that would break, hole the block, and allow oil to catch fire on the catalytic converters - everyone knows this; but your picture clearly shows the blue Fiero on fire inside the cabin. This interior fire could have been from a poorly extinguished cigarette, or a badly wired after market stereo; we don't know. But it certainly wasn't an engine fire since the BACK of the car is not on fire.

And just to reiterate, my discussion has never been about the Fiero and how it matches up, or not against the Z1; it's been about who developed the construction concept and use of plastic body panels, and who brought it to market first. You're the one who brought the comparason of the two cars into the discussion and have repeatedly infered the Fiero is a "turd". None of what you've posted has countered my point.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 06-20-2012 at 06:34 AM..
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