Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
You are still separating the use of a monocoque frame and plastic body panels as two independent design (or use-of-materials) concepts. My point has been the COMBINED use of both the monocoque-frame concept AND no-load-plastic panels. I’ve never changed from that original discussion position; you’ve just tied to make it that way.
I'll type slowly so maybe you'll get it this time. My original point was the construction design (let's say methodology for clarity sake) of both the Z1 and the Fiero use a "self-supporting monocoque" (those are BMW's exact words not mine - Pontiac called it a "space-frame") chassis WITH (i.e. INCLUDED as part of the design) plastic body panels (with the significance of the plastic panels use being that the panels do not carry part of the load of the chassis as normal unit-construction [i.e. monocoque-body] chassis do) was pioneered by GM.
You keep separating the two technologies so as to try and win an argument with something I did not say, write , infer, or imply.
You point to the first-use of plastic as a body material with a Plexiglas covered Engineering display model - what a joke, and it was a GM anyway. That car was not a production automobile, not intended to be a production automobile, and was never sold to the public.
You point to Henry Ford's Soya Bean car, which was an engineering study and demonstration, and a car not produced nor sold to the public. And the real joke about your use of the Soya Bean car as an example, which you'd not understand since you’ve probably not read the book, Ford, The Men and Machine, is the plastics developed for producing a the car were to prove the use of the Soya Bean as a base material for plastics (rather than petroleum) so as to increase the need for Farmers to grow crops. The use of food produce to make industrial products was a movement of the 1930's called "Chemurgy". Go get the book and start reading on page 228 (I have the 1st edition published in 1986) so you’ll understand the purpose of Ford’s Soya Bean car. The Soya Bean car tried to pioneer the use of Soya Beans as a source for plastic, not pioneer the plastic car. Henry Ford's idea being a manufacturer could grow Soya Beans just out side its manufacturing plant and process the material on-site and turn the plastic into car parts.
You got close about the use of plastic body panels with the CRX and the BX, but both cars were contemporaries of the Fiero time-wise and neither had the body entirely made of plastic, nor were either monocoque-framed cars using plastic panels for the entire body (as the Z1 and Fiero do). By the time those two cars were released Pontiac was well into finalizing the Fiero for production and did not "copy" the use of plastic body panels from them. Just as both the 914 and X1/9, which neither being plastic-bodied and moncoque framed. Yes both were two-seat, mid engine designs, but alas I never claimed the Fiero pioneered that design (as you've tried to claim). Come to think of it, I’ve never heard of a 4-seat mid-engine design that was a mass-produced car; so maybe use of a mid-engine design just naturally lends itself to a 2-seat cockpit.
Stop making up arguments to just to win them (which you've yet to win anyway) and I'll stop responding.
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Oh boy.....how many more conditional clauses are you going add to your
"argument" *caugh caugh*. Perhaps if you say GM pioneered the monocoque "AND" "ALL" plastic panels "AND" Mid-engine "AND" made in the USA "AND" made in 1984 "AND" driven by Efthreeoh", you might be right. Probably not.
And here is another one of your fail boat gems:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh
Second, you’re just plain wrong about the use of plastic panels in mass produced cars.
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As stated before, Citroen BX, a family sedan and much of Europe had already adopted and were mass-producing plastic body panels well before that "innovative" (LOL!) Fiero.
Try and try as you might Efthreeoh, but Checkmate is checkmate.