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      05-31-2009, 10:34 AM   #18
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[QUOTE=PM3;5228795]
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
You have some good points but are forgetting one key ingredient- emissions regulations and the fact HALO cars do nothing for brands; GM and all the others failing have proven that. BMW does not need an R8 competitor; the M3 is darn near close enough. The thing people also need to remember about VAG and the R8 is that many of the pieces are Lambo and VW shared so development was not as costly as it would be for BMW.

The X ///M vehicles were designed to show what could be done with the technologies BMW possesses- While they may not make enthusiasts happy there is a reason for the madness: to reduce development costs across models and the anticipated market read when the X6 was developed was that these things would sell well . If BMW is to remain independent they need to do this.

As far as the CLS goes- BMW has never sold many and the last model was a break even product but the energy focussed on it could have been spent elsewhere, the main focus in the BMW camp is emissions, efficient dynamics and the like. The hydrogen 7 is a long term project (not costing billions) and has received subsidies. It is a better concept than the plug in hybrids that are getting the main stay of attention these days.

BMW will be launching 20+ models in the next 2 years, and many things may surprise you- such as 3 cylinder motors, triple turbos, hybrids for more power rather than efficiency and true two-mode hybrids.

The GT-5 looks better in person and personally I rather see soccer moms driving something like that than a SUV- The PAS concept is the foreshadowing of fading of SUVs, the X1 is along the same lines.

There will be styling differences from the 5er and the GT, the interior of the 5 will be more along the lines of the GT than the 7 and there are differences between the 7 and the GT, so I am not sure why everyone things they are the same?

When you see the car in person I have a feeling you will view things differently.

The 1 series steering is a bit disappointing but on the other hand it does not surprise me as the system was never intended from the start to be for such a performance model- the N54 was designed after the hatch and the coupe was an after thought. The next generation will be designed to accommodate more derivatives.


Those are very good points and I agree with you...i have said it before i think bmw made a very good move with its efficient dynamics and trust me i am all for low consumption - i live in portugal where 1 gallon of super unleaded costs almost 9 dollars, but the point is - and as I have highlighted in your comment - bmw is first a sporty premium brand and as you said, thats not where there focus is anymore! Sure they have to diverse, someone will buy the GT and the X5M, but those core models that made bmw what it is today dont exist anymore and from the look of it they wont anymore. You have to know where to draw a line and create a balance between efficient and dynamic, and for instance, was it worth the sacraficing thee hidraulic steering on the one for the mpg and destroy what could have been one of bmw´s greats??

The only thing i disagree is you saying the m3 is a close competitor to the r8. I spend alot of time in London and let me tell an m3 wont turn half as many heads as an r8...not even close. Again, i know the m3 is a magnificent performance car, probably a better allround, but the R8, even if it was just breaking even, its building the future of audi, not the immediate but in the medium term and longterm. Most people dont see this but the R8 its worth it weight in gold for audi - first, and even if it wasnt a great drive, it trasnpires the notion of a sporty brand. Secondly, the people that look at this car are this car are teenagers. I will give you an example. When my eldest soon was a kid i remember him having a poster of a lambo contach in his bedroom wall. Kids these days dont put many posters but my youngest daughter loves that zach efron kid and in his latest movie do you know what car he drives?? thats right, an R8. And another small detail - and this is a really important one - the other day I was watching The Mentalist - dont know if you guys heard of it - and to cut it short this guy was saying "my daughters friends come pick her up in there audis" !!!! Remember how in the 80´s and 90´s the word bimmer was on every american tv show?? now its audis, and its these kids that today ask there parents for an A4 but tomorrow (10 or 15 years) will buy the A6 or the Q or whatever.
Slowly audi is building an image of THE sporty premium brand and bmw is building cars for the soccer mums. So thats why i thing bmw DOES need an R8, its not about making money of it but build the fan base for the next 20 or 30 years. Why do you think you or I are bmw fans today?? for me it was the 2002 that made me a bmw fanatic. I couldnt afford one so i got a 1602. They may not afford the R8 but there parents might or they might just asked for there 18 birdays, if they are lucky, an A3 or whatever. + i read Van hoydonk saying bmw had the tech and know how to make a bmw supercar anyway.

I will say it again - i am all for efficient dynamics and bmw 5GT ( i actually think it will be a sucess) but lets not forget that this companys moto, its history and what made it what it is today and the reason of us beeing all here today is The ultimate driving machine!! BMW can make (and obviously they dont need my permission all the niche models they want but there are some core values that need to be respected, a healthy balance.

And i will give you another example. I have read that Z4 book (good by the way), and one of the 10 rules for a bmw roadster since the very first bmw roadster ever made was for it to have a fabric roof to keep the weight down and i remember on bmws press releases and some catalogues for previous models bmw saying " our roadster will always have a fabric roof because there isnt anything like the sound of rain on a fabric roof" !!! ... THEY JUST MADE THE NEW Z4 AND THE NEXT 6 WITH A HEAVY, FUGLY LOOKING METAL ROOF!!!!!!!!!! CONSISTENCY SOMEONE?? And then they have the balls to talk about low fuel consumptions and making cars lighter. They say one thing and do another.
My friends say that bmw is like my football (soccer for the good folks across the pond) team cause i speak so passionate about it. I am always saying the audis (audis are i bit more popular here) are shit cause no rear wheal drive and lifeless stearing and mercs are for the geriatric people. And sucessfully - one of my best friends traded is A4 for his very first bmw ever - a brand new 320d - but my point beeing you will always support your team but when the manager sucks you boo them out of the stadium. Just because they lost the championship doesnt mean you will start supporting another rival team.


Oh and you have to admit that the interiors (sure with some minor differences) are getting all a bit alike. They are very luxurious no question there - i thought bmw could never make another interior as good as the one on my seven and then they pull this GT. that i cant denie, its just that they all look pretty much the same.
90% of your posts consist of the same rehashed complaints about BMW's direction.
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