[Ellmat]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Thanks for clarifying; I very recently bought my one year old 640i from JC, TW and reading your post gave me cause for concern regarding after-sales support.
I was pretty impressed with the service I received and the way in which my car was presented.

I have had a number of BMW`s (only 2 were purchased from TW). I have found the service to be second to none and nothing is too much trouble. As for buying a car from them, there is no loyalty whatsoever, but this works both ways...for me it`s all about who can offer me the best price.

[jedpause]

I appreciate this isn't apples with apples, however my 520D takes less than 3 miles max to get to 100°C, even in winter (0-5°C ambient), an that's driving gracefully.

[AP]

well I looked at this this morning.
3C (the lowest temperature I've driven the car to date) and it took around 16 minutes / 8 miles to get to around 100c. Car was set up in Eco pro mode with gentle driving.

[HighlandPete]

Thinking about this a bit more, it is difficult to compare results, as we all have varied conditions, add in the fact that different engines have various coolant and engine oil capacities. Plus the diesel models have the PTC electric heater assisting cabin heating. Petrol models don't, so we certainly don't have a level playing field, even to compare engine types or sizes.

From data, I see a 520d has a 5.2-litre sump capacity, the 535i has 6.5-litres, the 530d 7.2-litres, so there is quite a large difference in heat absorption, due to that alone.

Another factor is the mpg (or for time, litres/hr) we are achieving during warm up. That will have a major influence, as after all, it is waste heat that we are using to warm up.

HighlandPete

[A900ss]

Originally Posted by AP

well I looked at this this morning.
3C (the lowest temperature I've driven the car to date) and it took around 16 minutes / 8 miles to get to around 100c. Car was set up in Eco pro mode with gentle driving.

I know this may sound strange but sometimes it is advisable not to be too gentle on warm up.

I'm certainly not saying bounce on the redline straight after starting the car but drive the car normally in comfort mode (the interior will also heat up quicker that way as Eco Pro turns down the electric heating elements). Go through the gears up to 2/2500 rpm.

8 miles in 16 minutes also suggests urban driving which won't aid warm up times.

Best of luck.

[Dandle]

Where have you got the info the diesels have PTC heating elements Peter? I'm not saying you are wrong because I don't know but my LCI E61 certainly didn't have them and so far the F11 only produces heat as the temp dial rises (maybe there is an lower temp limit before they work if they are fitted). I cant see them on Realoem only electric pre heaters on 4 zone A/C cars.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Dandle

Where have you got the info the diesels have PTC heating elements Peter? I'm not saying you are wrong because I don't know but my LCI E61 certainly didn't have them and so far the F11 only produces heat as the temp dial rises (maybe there is an lower temp limit before they work if they are fitted). I cant see them on Realoem only electric pre heaters on 4 zone A/C cars.

Put your VIN into RealOEM and see if you have Part 3.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...48&hg=64&fg=40

HighlandPete

[Dandle]

That's what I saw. I think that's only for cars with 4zone heating. Its available on petrol cars too and I think the electric heating elements are for trimming the heating when you have four seperate zones commanding different temperatures.

I would be supprised if the dervs do have PTC elements as they warm up so quick now. They were removed off the later E60s and these warm up faster than those.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Dandle

That's what I saw. I think that's only for cars with 4zone heating. Its available on petrol cars too and I think the electric heating elements are for trimming the heating when you have four seperate zones commanding different temperatures.

I would be supprised if the dervs do have PTC elements as they warm up so quick now. They were removed off the later E60s and these warm up faster than those.

Why do you come to that conclusion? BMW have indicated the PTC is there for heating the diesel engine models, due to engine efficiency and therefore not fast enough cabin heating.

For example F20 1-series and 3-series F30 diesels have them, and they don't have a 4-zone system.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=64&fg=40

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=64&fg=40

HighlandPete

[A900ss]

My 520d was pumping heat out of the vents in less than a minute yesterday and that was at +1 degrees.

That would confirm the PTC elements for me (I don't have the 4 zone AC).

If its doing that without PTC elements, that is very impressive.

[Dandle]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Why do you come to that conclusion? BMW have indicated the PTC is there for heating the diesel engine models, due to engine efficiency and therefore not fast enough cabin heating.

I come to that conclusion because the real oem for the F10/11 clearly states "For vehicles with Autom. climate control with 4-zone ctrl" and even list the same parts for petrol version with 4 zone A/C. I'm would think those elements are just to trim air for the 4 possible different temps required which would make sense why they are included on the petrol cars too.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

For example F20 1-series and 3-series F30 diesels have them, and they don't have a 4-zone system.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=64&fg=40

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=64&fg=40

HighlandPete

Both of those links point to PTC elements being on all cars with Automatic air conditioning and it looks like the system is the same on both the 1 and 3 series diesels. Its not the same as stating only on a car with 4 zone A/C.

Are you assuming they are on the diesel 5 series or have you seen anything to point towards that other than the links above?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Dandle

Are you assuming they are on the diesel 5 series or have you seen anything to point towards that other than the links above?

Have seen reference to the PTC element 'somewhere' ... trying to find it, but was a while back when I saw it in some data.

BTW, have you got 4-zone? If not just try your VIN, it will tell you do or don't have it.

If A900ss could try it as well, we'd see if it is listed on the standard diesel models. Tried my VIN and it says... "Items pictured but not listed are not installed on your vehicle". Part 03 is not on the parts list.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

BTW, the reference to the 4-zone system is the part 01, that definitely is in the 4-zone systems. I must find the details and schematics with the air flows. I thought I had them on the laptop I'm using at the moment, but as of yet not found them. Will have to search my backup drive.

If I look at a generic 535i and look for the front PTC element it is not isted, but the parts 01 left and right are listed for the 4-zone. The front element isn't part of the 4-zone.

HighlandPete

[Dandle]

Good call, Part 3 is listed with my vin and it isnt on the 535i of the same build date. So that points to it having a heater then.

[jedpause]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Put your VIN into RealOEM and see if you have Part 3.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...48&hg=64&fg=40

HighlandPete

Interesting, I have a NOV 2011 520D, with 2 zone air-con only, and I have this PTC part... my car warms up nicely inside half a mile at 0-5°C even...

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Thinking about this a bit more, it is difficult to compare results, as we all have varied conditions, add in the fact that different engines have various coolant and engine oil capacities. Plus the diesel models have the PTC electric heater assisting cabin heating. Petrol models don't, so we certainly don't have a level playing field, even to compare engine types or sizes.

From data, I see a 520d has a 5.2-litre sump capacity, the 535i has 6.5-litres, the 530d 7.2-litres, so there is quite a large difference in heat absorption, due to that alone.

Another factor is the mpg (or for time, litres/hr) we are achieving during warm up. That will have a major influence, as after all, it is waste heat that we are using to warm up.

HighlandPete

Interesting thread; I haven't had a petrol engined car in a cold climate for over 12 years and I'm still getting used to my 640i, which I've only had for a few weeks. So, bearing this discussion in mind, I decided to monitor my car's heater warm-up time today. It was 4.5° outside, yet within less that two miles from home, I was amazed to find the vents blowing warm air; if you add on the time taken to get out of the garage, the engine would have been running for no more than 5 minutes. Obviously there was no movement on the oil temp gauge at this stage, but the coolant temp must rise remarkably quickly in order to impart heat so soon.
Along with many other automotive technical technical advances, the radiator slats obviously play a significant part in this improved efficiency.