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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Anyone moved to an F10 and regretted it? Particularly the lower powered diesels?
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      01-09-2013, 06:29 PM   #23
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Yes a 535i offers much more, but the cost per mile is almost twice what the 520d will set you back. When you search within the same cost category, the 520d is king.

On top, in most driving conditions the difference is small, I do 70% highway driving at rediculous low speeds on cruise control and here the 520d reigns seen its' incredible frugality, 25% in the traffic jam where the engine is stopped-started, and 5% more motivational stuff. Only in the latter context, the 535i is releasing its' extra stuff probably with some authority then. I also agree the engine sound is much sweeter, but for twice the cost?

I agree also that it is a mental comfort state you're in when you know you're driving a 530d or so, but in real life with real money, I also feel mental comfort knowing that driving my 5-series is not a hold-up on my bank account...
Totally agree for many buyers/users the 520d will be the best package. In fact the 520d is one of the best BMW value cars in the UK, when you think about what you get for the money, compared to the 3-series.

I'm a private buyer and would sooner have a nearly new car with a better specification, than a more basic new car. Hence why I'm in the 535i. Nearly new, ex BMW HQ car loaded with options, less than 6k miles, at over 40% under list price. Therefore the running costs per mile are very similar to a new 520d with the options I have on my car. For me that is a 'win win' drive. I intend to run it for several years, so depreciation should be levelled out at the other end as well.

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      01-09-2013, 06:42 PM   #24
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Thanks for all the feedback guys, I'm still really stuck decision wise. I don't want the extra expense of the 530D albeit I'm sure I'd enjoy the drive. This is a 'sensible' option. The e89 35i was my mad option. I still love this car, but keep looking forward and thinking (as I'm 42 now) as I approach my mid 40's do I still want to be thrown around in a roadster, or have a bit of comfort... I feel proper grandad/pipe and slippers when I read that back!
Been there, done that!

Similar age, thought the same about my audi TT. Changed recently to the 520d, although not the efficient dynamics.

8 speed sport Transmission is brilliant and I guess it makes the 184 HP engine quite acceptable and pleasant. Comfort and interior atmosphere are above average.

Dont regret the decision ond bit, on the opposite...would not spend the extra cash to upgrade to a 525d, 530d or 535d, unless I really had a huge pile of money to spend on a car, of course.

If you miss the sporty drive, just by an insanely cheap a fun to drive mazda miata! Heard that together with a LSD (limited slip diff, not the chemical, of course) it can be quite amusing.

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P.S. The ED version has same limitations. Not sure if you could have the sport ZF8 transmission. Think seriously about going for the plain 520d, not the ED.
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      01-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #25
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Totally agree for many buyers/users the 520d will be the best package. In fact the 520d is one of the best BMW value cars in the UK, when you think about what you get for the money, compared to the 3-series.

I'm a private buyer and would sooner have a nearly new car with a better specification, than a more basic new car. Hence why I'm in the 535i. Nearly new, ex BMW HQ car loaded with options, less than 6k miles, at over 40% under list price. Therefore the running costs per mile are very similar to a new 520d with the options I have on my car. For me that is a 'win win' drive. I intend to run it for several years, so depreciation should be levelled out at the other end as well.

HighlandPete
Ok, this I understand. Personally, I hope to find such a low milage pre-used 535i/530d like yours also within a few years with a serious discount. But when you compare new to new, the TCO is massively different while the superior experience is 90% in your head and only now and then on the road.
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      01-10-2013, 08:07 AM   #26
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Ok, this I understand. Personally, I hope to find such a low milage pre-used 535i/530d like yours also within a few years with a serious discount. But when you compare new to new, the TCO is massively different while the superior experience is 90% in your head and only now and then on the road.
Sure, new to new will cost more in a 535i. UK figures (WhatCar magazine) seem to indicate about a 25% additional cost to run a (non optioned) 535i vs. 520d over 3-years/36,000 miles. I thought it would be higher, but the 520d isn't so far behind on purchase cost as we may first imagine.

It is difficult to put a value on the differences, other than outright performance, but there are tangible values in running a better engine, IMO. As an example, I just love the way the N55 engine works in the 5-series, very similar in delivery to my E39 540i 4.4 V8, so in a totally different league to a 520d 4-pot diesel. For me every mile therefore has additional value.

I drive about 8k miles per year in the 535i, so fuel isn't a big issue, About 50% more than if I was in a 520d, in my driving conditions. So about 500 more per year, (6ppm) in the big scheme of car running costs of about 1 per mile.

But I wouldn't have a 520d anyway if running a diesel, it would be a 530d, so fuel difference is even less.

If users are driving high mileage then the 520d makes so much sense, as fuel costs are a much larger % of running costs.

As I said in the previous post, I've capped my costs by buying nearly new. Allowed me into the car I really prefer, much bigger specification, and skipping over 20k of the depreciation hit.

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      01-10-2013, 05:08 PM   #27
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Sure, new to new will cost more in a 535i. UK figures (WhatCar magazine) seem to indicate about a 25% additional cost to run a (non optioned) 535i vs. 520d over 3-years/36,000 miles. I thought it would be higher, but the 520d isn't so far behind on purchase cost as we may first imagine.

It is difficult to put a value on the differences, other than outright performance, but there are tangible values in running a better engine, IMO. As an example, I just love the way the N55 engine works in the 5-series, very similar in delivery to my E39 540i 4.4 V8, so in a totally different league to a 520d 4-pot diesel. For me every mile therefore has additional value.

I drive about 8k miles per year in the 535i, so fuel isn't a big issue, About 50% more than if I was in a 520d, in my driving conditions. So about 500 more per year, (6ppm) in the big scheme of car running costs of about 1 per mile.

But I wouldn't have a 520d anyway if running a diesel, it would be a 530d, so fuel difference is even less.

If users are driving high mileage then the 520d makes so much sense, as fuel costs are a much larger % of running costs.

As I said in the previous post, I've capped my costs by buying nearly new. Allowed me into the car I really prefer, much bigger specification, and skipping over 20k of the depreciation hit.

HighlandPete

For what it is worth my 10 month 535D has now covered 11,000 miles and my journey to work is about 18 miles each way, mostly stop-start and i get around 37 Mpg...i consider this to be pretty good, on the motorway i get around 45 Mpg...depending on the way i drive !
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      01-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #28
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I so wish we had the diesel options in Canada as you all have in Europe
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      01-10-2013, 06:12 PM   #29
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I so wish we had the diesel options in Canada as you all have in Europe
I`m sure at some point in the future it will happen. However the cost of diesel is more expensive than petrol in the UK, so any gains made in consumption is lost in cost of fuel...I think you need to drive over 25,000 miles a year for diesel fuel to work in your favour...I drive about 17,000 miles per year, but...I like 313 HP and 630 Nm, plus second hand values are higher in the UK!! Hope the diesel arrives for you soon....
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      01-11-2013, 04:03 AM   #30
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Yes a 535i offers much more, but the cost per mile is almost twice what the 520d will set you back. When you search within the same cost category, the 520d is king.

On top, in most driving conditions the difference is small, I do 70% highway driving at rediculous low speeds on cruise control and here the 520d reigns seen its' incredible frugality, 25% in the traffic jam where the engine is stopped-started, and 5% more motivational stuff. Only in the latter context, the 535i is releasing its' extra stuff probably with some authority then. I also agree the engine sound is much sweeter, but for twice the cost?

I agree also that it is a mental comfort state you're in when you know you're driving a 530d or so, but in real life with real money, I also feel mental comfort knowing that driving my 5-series is not a hold-up on my bank account...
well put ,what u wrote makes sense, unfort I do not think am there yet. I had a 525d loaner and my opinion is that its either 520d or 530/535d. 525d is good, but somehow I was expecting much more. I wish they kept 525d 6cilinder engine.
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      01-13-2013, 04:46 PM   #31
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Don't even think about it, go for the 530d. The 520d and 525d are great cars but if you're coming from something with a bit more oomph you'll always feel you are mising something (I went to the 530d from an E92 330Ci).

BTW definitely add the Adaptive Drive and try out Sport + mode
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      01-13-2013, 05:17 PM   #32
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Don't even think about it, go for the 530d. The 520d and 525d are great cars but if you're coming from something with a bit more oomph you'll always feel you are mising something (I went to the 530d from an E92 330Ci).

BTW definitely add the Adaptive Drive and try out Sport + mode
I'm not looking at a new car.. but an 8 month old 520D ED which is ex olympics use. Great spec, full nav, xenons etc, but concerned whether the '20' isn't special enough.. my e89 35i certainly is.
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      01-16-2013, 07:51 PM   #33
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I'm not looking at a new car.. but an 8 month old 520D ED which is ex olympics use. Great spec, full nav, xenons etc, but concerned whether the '20' isn't special enough.. my e89 35i certainly is.
We have to start again I guess... the 520d is an epic car out there with the very best at a running cost that is even hard to beat by much smaller cars. I dare to say, for this money, there is NO better overall. It's not as performant nor refined as a 535i or 530d, this is also more than true, I guess everybody admits.

In my personal case, I prefer my 163hp 520d over my 231hp e39 530i, even when I isolate the engine/transmission, the e39 is a disgrace compared to the 2.0 diesel because of the pleasant and comfortable torque and low consumption combination. The edge the 530i brings is only apparent above 4000rpm, while it consumes barrels of premium gasoline! So, rather never in normal driving conditions (ps, F10 535i/530d are of course much better than the 530i I refer to).

The 520d is not exclusive, you'll see it on every road in your country, just because it is this good. Is this reducing your sentiment of driving something special??? For me, I feel "special" just because it is a wise and intelligent car, delivering on all levels.

To state bluntly: I would have a problem being seen in an M5, but everybody may see me shine in my 520d. The former is an egocentric and idiosyncratic car designed around your own pleasure, the latter is a social and economical adjusted and wise car caring for the environment and social climat we are living in. On top it is a choice of a social man, which is also a positive differentiator, because it has rear seat taking his friends or family out! Even A Z4 M with 4 trillion hp doesn't have this on offer I guess?
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      01-17-2013, 03:08 AM   #34
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I have had my 520D for a year now, and every now and then I think about "what if" I had a 535D instead. However, a 530D is 12000€ more than a 520D and that translates to roughly 200€ more every month, on top of the 800€ it already costs me.
I think my car really has improved engine wise after it's 30000km. It is now more refined and vibrates less.
Consider BMW has a kit for it to get more BHP with all warranties intact.
If you don't like spending "too much" money, get the 520D, it is a great alternative.
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      01-17-2013, 05:00 AM   #35
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We have to start again I guess... the 520d is an epic car out there with the very best at a running cost that is even hard to beat by much smaller cars. I dare to say, for this money, there is NO better overall. It's not as performant nor refined as a 535i or 530d, this is also more than true, I guess everybody admits.

...

To state bluntly: I would have a problem being seen in an M5, but everybody may see me shine in my 520d. The former is an egocentric and idiosyncratic car designed around your own pleasure, the latter is a social and economical adjusted and wise car caring for the environment and social climat we are living in. On top it is a choice of a social man, which is also a positive differentiator, because it has rear seat taking his friends or family out! Even A Z4 M with 4 trillion hp doesn't have this on offer I guess?
Totally agree on the first point, have said it before, the 520d is probably the best value BMW, also reflecting BMW at its finest.


Just be a bit careful on the environmental stance, that can get so skewed and not reflect the true picture.

No car really has any evironmental credentials, plus no one really needs a BMW, let alone a 5-series.

The guy who has the M5 and drives less than 10k miles a year may be 'deliberately' limiting his car use, can be much more environmentally aware than the 520d driver who uses his car for 30 - 40k miles a year because he/she 'likes' to live miles away from his/her work.

We all can excuse our decisions, set our own limits on what we justify is acceptable. Low (on paper) CO2 ratings, ED features all helps users to think they are environmentally friendly and socially responsible.

I was challenged when running my 540i V8 for 'killing the planet', by whom? Guys driving 'economical' diesel cars, but these same guys were justifying driving 20k miles or more per year, when my V8 was using far less fuel a year than they were.

But we are entering a far bigger subject and going off topic.

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      01-17-2013, 05:11 AM   #36
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All interesting arguments, and largely non emotional/sensible. Ownership of my Z4 is entirely emotional. No one buys this type of car for sensible use or reasons. ...and herein layeth the issue. Putting emotions to one side, the 520D ED makes lots of sense. However if I'm emotionless about the car, then I could buy something just as efficient, a lot cheaper, by another brand if all I wanted was sensible...

...I'm still chewing this over!
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      01-17-2013, 06:34 AM   #37
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Of course you can buy a Kia with much better warranties, it will take less fuel, have larger space for luggage etc etc, but all is not black or white.
I would say no five series makes sence at all if it is value/.
In my case the interior of the five series is WAY better than your plastic Z4. It is also way better than a new 3series or a X3.

It's not that we have a Kia CD and a 520D in one corner and hundred miles away is the 530D along with the Rolls Royce and Range Rover.
The 530D is still a Diesel and doesn't sound well at all standing still. It will also shake and vibrate lots more than your Z4 35i.
I would say, characteristic wise the 530D and 520D is closer to each other than a 530D and 535i.
If it is all about emotions, get a 550i, there is a refined engine.
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      01-17-2013, 07:07 AM   #38
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All interesting arguments, and largely non emotional/sensible. Ownership of my Z4 is entirely emotional. No one buys this type of car for sensible use or reasons. ...and herein layeth the issue. Putting emotions to one side, the 520D ED makes lots of sense. However if I'm emotionless about the car, then I could buy something just as efficient, a lot cheaper, by another brand if all I wanted was sensible...

...I'm still chewing this over!
When emotion comes into it, the decision is much harder.

I made a conscious decision to be 'sensible' back in the late 90's, I decided best value at the time was a VW Passat B5 TDI. Did the job well but as a driving experience was without soul. Had two of them, first the saloon then the estate. But when my mileage dropped to sensible levels my next car was an E39 540i touring, massive smile back on my face again.

At change time I was going to be sensible again, 'downsize' but stay with BMW. Tried the E91 320d, all fine on paper, but would it make me grin from ear to ear when driving? No, did nothing for me, the 330d was in a different league. Hence the 330d for several years.

Why back in a 5-series and petrol once again? Simply the driving experience and the huge smile factor. I tried an F11 520d touring, thinking sensible may work once again. But to be honest, it did nothing for me, even tempted me to look at the competition again. Then the sensible F30/31 thinking.... but the 5-series was still winking at me.

Sensible and emotional needs in driving, don't often work together in my experience.

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      01-17-2013, 07:43 AM   #39
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Of course you can buy a Kia with much better warranties, it will take less fuel, have larger space for luggage etc etc, but all is not black or white.
I would say no five series makes sence at all if it is value/.
In my case the interior of the five series is WAY better than your plastic Z4. It is also way better than a new 3series or a X3.

It's not that we have a Kia CD and a 520D in one corner and hundred miles away is the 530D along with the Rolls Royce and Range Rover.
The 530D is still a Diesel and doesn't sound well at all standing still. It will also shake and vibrate lots more than your Z4 35i.
I would say, characteristic wise the 530D and 520D is closer to each other than a 530D and 535i.
If it is all about emotions, get a 550i, there is a refined engine.

lol @ plastic Z4... assume much?

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      01-17-2013, 11:32 AM   #40
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z4 looks ok to me, looks like a quality interior at least from the photo to me.
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      01-17-2013, 02:50 PM   #41
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Not crazy about the Z4's HVAC controls.
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      01-17-2013, 02:55 PM   #42
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Not crazy about the Z4's HVAC controls.
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      01-17-2013, 03:57 PM   #43
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Why don't you wait for the next 4?
Great quality and sportier than 5 series
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      01-18-2013, 03:44 AM   #44
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Why don't you wait for the next 4?
Great quality and sportier than 5 series
I had thought about that... the only thing is I shy away from buying new due to depreciation. However if I buy wisely perhaps the 4 is a keeper..

Having said that I also tend to shy away from first release models as they inevitably have issues that haven't been worked out yet.
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