[snkpkp]

Originally Posted by otisdog

If the move to four cylinders is true, it gives me hope that we'll see a four cylinder diesel in the US.

Only the 528i might go to the U.S and the 535d , it is very hard to convince the U.S buyers to drive a 4 cylinder premium vehicle no matter how much boosted the turbo or power is ..haven't you heard ? There ain't no gun with four bullets

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by snkpkp

well for starters living in a country which has 600-800 % import duty on anything larger than 2.0 Liter, the 528i with 2.0 Turbo is a blessing in disguise for us. We have the 520d selling at roughly $120k to $150k and if the gasoline version comes it will sell double in numbers as these premium buyers do not care about fuel costs etc. My friend is the owner of BMW Bangladesh, and he confirmed but would not give me dates of release for the following

520d second version 190 bhp
525d 210 bhp 2.0 turbo diesel
520i 175 bhp 2.0 turbo in line four
528i 235 bhp 2.0 turbo in line four

he hinted from September 2011, but would no confirm or deny any more details i asked him. He also mentioned the first engines would go in to the Z4 and 1 Series.

great info!
This makes a lot of sense.. when was the last time there was a 520i? I think it completes the petrol lineup, puts greater distance between the 523i and 528i.. just like the e60 final lineup with 523i/530i/540i/550i

Although its a 'small' engine I think buyers will accept it, esp if they test drive it as the 520i should be no less powerful than the 523i in normal driving - although the bhp is lower, the torque should be the same and available at much lower rpm, thus giving the feeling of much more power.

The transformation for the 528i would be quite profound, it goes from high revving/low torque to higher torque/low revving. There will be an improvement in normal driving in that it will feel less sluggish, but with the loss of the 'going crazy' fun.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by snkpkp

Only the 528i might go to the U.S and the 535d , it is very hard to convince the U.S buyers to drive a 4 cylinder premium vehicle no matter how much boosted the turbo or power is ..haven't you heard ? There ain't no gun with four bullets

True. They'll never give us anything sensible. Instead we get a ridiculous, gas-guzzling V8 with a stick, which no one anywhere else in the world would even think of buying, while the company's flagship product, the NA 6 coupled with a manual transmission, is withheld. And the only diesel will surely be the ridiculously expensive, inefficient, AT-only 35d. Ugh.

[scottz5]

Driving a 528i now as a loaner and it's underpowered.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by snkpkp

Only the 528i might go to the U.S and the 535d , it is very hard to convince the U.S buyers to drive a 4 cylinder premium vehicle no matter how much boosted the turbo or power is ..haven't you heard ? There ain't no gun with four bullets

Will they stick to the N52 or switch to the N53 (with DI)? If euro switches from the N53 to the 2.0T what will they do with the N53 capacity? Since right now the rest of the world is still on N52.. Will the rest of the world jump from N52 straight to the 2.0T?

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by raleedy

True. They'll never give us anything sensible. Instead we get a ridiculous, gas-guzzling V8 with a stick, which no one anywhere else in the world would even think of buying, while the company's flagship product, the NA 6 coupled with a manual transmission, is withheld. And the only diesel will surely be the ridiculously expensive, inefficient, AT-only 35d. Ugh.

I hope they keep the V8 around a bit longer, its my aspiration engine
(Its still socially acceptable here in the third world..)

Here's something more ridiculous: the last 2yrs of the e60 here in HK got the N53 engine, but the new f10 gets the N52
Oh what the hey, just never let me drive the N53 and find out its better

[snkpkp]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Will they stick to the N52 or switch to the N53 (with DI)? If euro switches from the N53 to the 2.0T what will they do with the N53 capacity? Since right now the rest of the world is still on N52.. Will the rest of the world jump from N52 straight to the 2.0T?

http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477885

X1 xDrive28i 245 bhp so awesome

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by snkpkp;872(0024

http://e84.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=477885

X1 xDrive28i 245 bhp so awesome

damn, now my N52 is out of date already..
350nm vs 310nm is a big improvement, its too close the n55's 400nm!
The change from N52/3 to the 2.0t makes the X1 faster 0-100 from 6.8 to 6.1.. (given its 9% lighter with awd).. if the same engine specs is put into the 5, the 528 would drop from 6.7 to 6.3.. compared to the stated 6.1 for the 535i

how are they going to do this from a marketing perspective? decrease the specs for the 2.0t on the 528i, or up the 535i at 307bhp 400nm?

max hp for the new 2.0t is @5000rpm vs 6600rpm for the N52/3 .. say hello to audi-like power delivery (I've sat in one of those audi 2.0t and I have to say im not a fan!.. i get sick recalling it. great if u like to put it to other drivers though)

[otisdog]

Originally Posted by raleedy

Why?

Well....before now BMW wouldn't sell four cylinders in North America. Now they will. So now they can sell a four cylinder diesel.

[SteVTEC]

Had been planning to do ED on an '11 528i but the wife got cold feet (her car) and wanted to wait for the '12 and for them to work out the bugs first. DOESN'T WANT a 4-cylinder and not a turbo either, with all the HPFP issues. What to do what to do. ED isn't gonna happen now - too late and already have plans for the summer booked. Maybe just suck it up and buy one off the lot at higher prices? Might be what we end up doing.

If these ridiculous displacement taxes on anything over 2.0L is what's driving BMW to sell a turbo-4 and replace a 3.0L NA I6 then I can totally understand that, but that isn't the case here in the U.S! I personally have no interest shelling out close to $50k for a stinking Inline-4 engine, the most unrefined and nasty sounding and feeling engine configuration in the world, when BMW's trademark for decades has been their sweet sounding and feeling and free revving naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines. A freaking 4-banger? In a 5-series??? No way.... Wasn't crazy about the 535i either - way too much power to enjoy where we live, to the point of being annoying. The 528i with the N52B30 was absolutely perfect, and now it's going away.

[J-Raid]

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

Had been planning to do ED on an '11 528i but the wife got cold feet (her car) and wanted to wait for the '12 and for them to work out the bugs first. DOESN'T WANT a 4-cylinder and not a turbo either, with all the HPFP issues. What to do what to do. ED isn't gonna happen now - too late and already have plans for the summer booked. Maybe just suck it up and buy one off the lot at higher prices? Might be what we end up doing.

If these ridiculous displacement taxes on anything over 2.0L is what's driving BMW to sell a turbo-4 and replace a 3.0L NA I6 then I can totally understand that, but that isn't the case here in the U.S! I personally have no interest shelling out close to $50k for a stinking Inline-4 engine, the most unrefined and nasty sounding and feeling engine configuration in the world, when BMW's trademark for decades has been their sweet sounding and feeling and free revving naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines. A freaking 4-banger? In a 5-series??? No way.... Wasn't crazy about the 535i either - way too much power to enjoy where we live, to the point of being annoying. The 528i with the N52B30 was absolutely perfect, and now it's going away.

You should review a bit more history. BMW was actually renowed in 'modern era' for their 4 cylinders. Remember the 2002 Turbo? a 4 banger turbo which was exceptional. And BMW's 1.5 4-banger was the most powerful F1 engine ever built (reached 6 bar pressure and went over 1400hp). Munich's HeadQuarters building are too shaped and called "4 cylinders".

Don't get me wrong, I currently drive, and love so much, a 6NA engine, but the 4turbo will bge fine, and ultimately for everyday driving it will behave better...and save you quite a lot of money...and save this world from an awful lot of emissions (and not just CO2, but also of 'human-harming' pollution)...

As a uni teacher, specialist in combustion engines, used to tell me regarding engines, "We actually use very little power of the engine while (everyday/real) driving, but we, and when I say we I include myself, love to show off and be better than our neighbour. Silly as we are shooting ourselves in the shoes, Oh humans..."

Seems americans have so much to learn, so old-fashioned...

PD: Before that 6NA I drove a 4NA from BMW too, and it was actually very good -perhaps not as good as the 6NA, but the addition of turbo and all the features (Valvetronic, Vanos, DI, etc etc) will make up for the difference, and even overcome it

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by J-Raid

You should review a bit more history. BMW was actually renowed in 'modern era' for their 4 cylinders. Remember the 2002 Turbo? a 4 banger turbo which was exceptional. And BMW's 1.5 4-banger was the most powerful F1 engine ever built (reached 6 bar pressure and went over 1400hp). Munich's HeadQuarters building are too shaped and called "4 cylinders".

The 2002 isn't really 'modern era' if you ask me. BMWs are known in the U.S. for their sweet naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines, not any 4-cylinders. The last 4-cylinder BMW that was sold here was the old E36 318ti hatchback which had a horrible reputation and was easily outperformed by the Volkswagens of the time. And comparisons to F1 engines are silly. Yeah Honda builds a great racing V8 engines nowadays, but that doesn't mean they could build a successful one that would build a great rep on the streets. I don't think there's much consideration given to NVH or how something sounds and feels in F1 engine development, but that's a big part of the '6NA' engine's magic.

Originally Posted by J-Raid

Don't get me wrong, I currently drive, and love so much, a 6NA engine, but the 4turbo will bge fine, and ultimately for everyday driving it will behave better...and save you quite a lot of money...and save this world from an awful lot of emissions (and not just CO2, but also of 'human-harming' pollution)...

That's what they're telling you but not actually the truth. The turbo-4 will probably allow them to game EPA and Euro fuel consumption test cycles better and "claim" reduced fuel consumption, but in reality they'll be burning just as much if not more fuel than before. The engine will have more power, right? If you use, that means you'll be burning more fuel period. An older car I had got 3 mpg better mileage than my newer car, despite the fact that my newer car has much better "rated" EPA mileage. Rated mileage on some test cycle vs real world fuel mileage are often two different things. If BMW really wanted to save people fuel perhaps they could find a way to get these things to weigh less, rather than the 4000+lb tanks they've become. Older 5-series like the E39 probably weighed 3400 lbs or less. Compared to the F10 today, every time you step on the gas that's an additional 600lbs of mass you're moving around. It's cheaper to develop a new engine that can game fuel efficiency test cycles better than it is to reduce weight by several hundered pounds which would actually improve efficiency in ways a new engine never could, so that's what they do. I think it's funny how despite all of these new tighter fuel efficiency regulations, overall global fossil fuel use still continues to increase.

When you say "behaving better", that's highly subjective and very much tied in with your own personal driving preferences. A turbo-4 will drive a whole lot differently than a 6NA, and it will also sound and feel a whole lot different than a 6NA, and not for the better on that last part I'm afraid. BMW isn't immune to the laws of physics. I like how the 6NAs drive, will possibly own a BMW long term and don't want to have to deal with the headaches of maintaining a turbo long-term. And it's not as if BMW's new turbo engines exactly have a stellar reliability record. Look at all the HPFP failures on the N54. NA engines are more simple and more reliable.

Originally Posted by J-Raid

As a uni teacher, specialist in combustion engines, used to tell me regarding engines, "We actually use very little power of the engine while (everyday/real) driving, but we, and when I say we I include myself, love to show off and be better than our neighbour. Silly as we are shooting ourselves in the shoes, Oh humans..."

Seems americans have so much to learn, so old-fashioned...

No. A lot of us just don't believe Al Gore. You're correct, though. The most power you're ever really going to "need" on a daily basis is never going to exceed around 150hp varying by vehicle weight, which is why a lot of the 4NA engines have their power targeted for around that level. You don't need to tell me that all of the super high-powered cars are silly, because I know they're silly. Test drove both the F10 528i/N52 and the 535i/N55 back to back and the power in the 535i was unusable where I live. Mat it for more than a second or two and you're either going to hit someone, or get arrested. Way more power than you're ever going to need or use on a daily basis. And when it came down to it for me, it wasn't even "thrill ride" fast like a lot of others have made it out to be. The 528i/N52 is more than plenty for me.

Originally Posted by J-Raid

PD: Before that 6NA I drove a 4NA from BMW too, and it was actually very good -perhaps not as good as the 6NA, but the addition of turbo and all the features (Valvetronic, Vanos, DI, etc etc) will make up for the difference, and even overcome it

On paper perhaps, but in its driving character not at all. If you strongly prefer the driving character and sound and feel and smoothness of a 6NA engine, than a turbo-4 is not at all going to be a substitute. The E60 F10 was going to be our first BMW at long last, and we both wanted the 6NA for which BMW has been known and praised for nearly 30 years here in the U.S. Some new 4-banger isn't in the cards but I'm sure it'll sell well elsewhere.