[stealth.pilot]

Originally Posted by dpwr

but if you can't have both what do you pick ?

Then I would pick the A6 3.0T.

The A6 is still a viable luxury car, but it drives much better than a 528i.

To me engineering is more important than creature comforts, and there is no way I would ever spend $50k on a 4 cylinder car, just like I won't spend $80k on a 6 cylinder car.

Choosing an A6 over a 528i, is very analogous to my choice of a Dinan 550i M-Sport over a Panamera.

[skiajl6297]

Originally Posted by MERCSUk153

The question is, does the seats in the A6 make you uncomfortable or are they just not as comfortable as the 528i? If they make you uncomfortable than get the BMW but if the A6 are comfortable but just not as comfy as the BMW than I say get the A6. Simple problem really.

The A6 fits me well - the 528i fits me better. Neither is uncomfortable to me, but the 528 is significantly more comfy. My wife is not as comfortable as she would like to be in the A6, but this will be my daily driver - so she isn't as concerned.

[gicamuci]

Originally Posted by stealth.pilot

To me engineering is more important than creature comforts, and there is no way I would ever spend $50k on a 4 cylinder car, just like I won't spend $80k on a 6 cylinder car.

But BMW engines are at least a step ahead of VW, IMHO. And the A6 is not so much faster than the 535, from a daily driver POV.

The A6 has a supercharged V6 - more gas. Being a V6, needs to move the balance shaft also - more gas and so on... FCS, VW use distribution belts in their AUDI engines.
The 535 has a turbocharged I6 - less gas. Being an I6, is the nearest to perfection balance - less gas, add also the efficient dynamics things used by BMW...

VW needs to rethink their strategy because with the 2012 A6 they are just laughing at BMW: "just because I can". Emission laws as they are right now (which again IMHO are not right) hurts BMW, VW having so many small cars to compensate for the mentioned laws.

And for the OP, no wonder you can't decide if you're looking at the A6 3.0T and 528i. It is like you will compare the A6 2.0 with the 535.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by gicamuci

But BMW engines are at least a step ahead of VW, INHO. And the A6 is not so much faster than the 535, from a daily driver POV.

The A6 has a supercharged V6 - more gas. Being a V6, The 535 has a turbocharged I6 - less gas. Being an I6, is the nearest to perfection balance - less gas, add also the efficient dynamics things used by BMW...

Go test drive the two back to back and you will realized that the A6 is even quicker than the 535xi than the test number indicates. I think the first thing you will notice is that the A6 had no lag unlike the 5 series.

The last time I check, the A6 and the 535xi gets the same MPG.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by skiajl6297

The A6 fits me well - the 528i fits me better. Neither is uncomfortable to me, but the 528 is significantly more comfy. My wife is not as comfortable as she would like to be in the A6, but this will be my daily driver - so she isn't as concerned.

Did you try the seats in the A6 prestige? They are a bit better than the Premium plus and about the same as BMW's standard seats. If you are comparing to BMW's upgraded seats, then there is no comparison.

[skiajl6297]

Originally Posted by gicamuci

And for the OP, no wonder you can't decide if you're looking at the A6 3.0T and 528i. It is like you will compare the A6 2.0 with the 535.

Would you be surprised that the 528i is very much in contention with the A6 due to price and amenities?

A base 2.0 A6 starts at just under 42k. Obviously comparing that to a base 535 at around 53k is a significant cost difference.

Whereas, a base 528 starts at 47k, and a base A6 starts at just shy of 50k.

Playing with add-ons and upgrades, since I don't want a bare bones model of anything, means that realistically, these are the two cars to focus on for my finances.

[skiajl6297]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Did you try the seats in the A6 prestige? They are a bit better than the Premium plus and about the same as BMW's standard seats. If you are comparing to BMW's upgraded seats, then there is no comparison.

Unfortunately for us, I am comparing them to BMW's upgraded seats. Yes, I tried both Prestige and PP seats, and didn't feel too much of a difference. And I entirely agree - the BMW upgraded seats are amazing. It's another check mark in favor of the 528.

[gicamuci]

skiajl6297 here is how I compare them - see the picture. The 535 is a 2012 but is virtually unchanged from 2011. What you can't see and maybe think about it, is you can have a manual transmission in the 535 and if you don't like the electric steering then with the 535 you can go with x-drive and get an old school steering.

I am not denying I am biased towards BMW (as you can see in my signature) but when I have to spend my money I think at least twice.

[The X Men]

As you probably already know, the MPG rating for the 2012 535i is the same as the A6.

[skiajl6297]

Originally Posted by gicamuci

skiajl6297 here is how I compare them - see the picture. The 535 is a 2012 but is virtually unchanged from 2011. What you can't see and maybe think about it, is you can have a manual transmission in the 535 and if you don't like the electric steering then with the 535 you can go with x-drive and get an old school steering.

I am not denying I am biased towards BMW (as you can see in my signature) but when I have to spend my money I think at least twice.

The key here is price. The highest amount I am considering paying is $57k after lease negotiation. That is not flexible. I do not expect to be able to negotiate a new 535 for a 1k under invoice. As configured on bmwconfig.com, MSRP of the 535i I want is $62,995, with invoice at $58,155.

If I could afford a 535i with the options I want (sport package, navigation, park distance, heated seats) I would be running an A6 v. 535 thread. I have not been able to get a 2012 535i in my financial comfort zone given my finances and my required specs.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by skiajl6297

Unfortunately for us, I am comparing them to BMW's upgraded seats. Yes, I tried both Prestige and PP seats, and didn't feel too much of a difference. And I entirely agree - the BMW upgraded seats are amazing. It's another check mark in favor of the 528.

Unfortunately, Audi have not bought over their upgraded seats from Europe yet. I think the Audi prestige seats have a bit more thigh support, but it’s no match for the upgraded seats in the BMW.
If comfort is what you are looking for, I would go with the 528i. In my opinion, when I buy a luxury sport car, it should be comfortable and fun to drive. I test drove a 528xi with sport package and upgraded seat just last week. I am try to decide between a 528xi with sport package and upgraded seat and a 535xi with premium sound. As much as I wanted to like the 528xi because of the upgraded seats, it just doesn’t seem refined with that 4 cyl engine. The engine noise was pretty noticeable when I accelerate. I had a hard time with the 528xi trying merge onto the highway on a short on-ramp during the test drive. Where I live, there are a lot of short highway on-ramp. The engine hesitated for a second or two as I try to accelerate onto the ramp and then a burst of speed, all this while I am sport mode. The other issue is that while in sport mode, the powertrain is very jerky, very hard to accelerate or decelerate smoothly. Comfort mode was better, but it didn’t nearly have enough power for the short highway onramp.

Originally Posted by skiajl6297

If I could afford a 535i with the options I want (sport package, navigation, park distance, heated seats) I would be running an A6 v. 535 thread. I have not been able to get a 2012 535i in my financial comfort zone given my finances and my required specs.

Maybe you can find or order a 535i without the sport package and just the upgarded seats, that will save you $2300.

[BigKutta]

Originally Posted by skiajl6297

The key here is price. The highest amount I am considering paying is $57k after lease negotiation. That is not flexible. I do not expect to be able to negotiate a new 535 for a 1k under invoice. As configured on bmwconfig.com, MSRP of the 535i I want is $62,995, with invoice at $58,155.

If I could afford a 535i with the options I want (sport package, navigation, park distance, heated seats) I would be running an A6 v. 535 thread. I have not been able to get a 2012 535i in my financial comfort zone given my finances and my required specs.

Getting that 535 to around $57k is very doable, depending on how hard you negotiate and timing, patience, etc.

[gicamuci]

Don't know if you already read this but here it is:

2012 BMW 528i

[skiajl6297]

After negotiations and real world best estimates, it looks like BMW 528i is the winner. My deal on a BMW is significantly better than the A6.

Ultimately finances won out - since we ranked both cars equally overall. More details to come, assuming the deal follows as discussed.

Thank you all for your input - assuming this works out, I 'm sure I'll be speaking with you all more often!

[skiajl6297]

Welcome to the family, new 528i!

Specs and pics follow:
Carbon Black
Oyster/Black Dakota
M Sport
Premium
Navigation
Sat Radio
Heated Seats
BMW Apps

Thanks to everyone for their input. Money was the deciding factor. So far, extremely pleased!

[BCA]

Congrats! You'll love it.

The Carbon Black is beautiful; when I was looking for my car a few weeks ago, I asked my dealer to look for Dark Graphite and Carbon Black (both with Oyster). Graphite is what I ended up with, and I'm thrilled with it, but Carbon would have been just as good.

[BigKutta]

Sweet!! Good choice you will not regret. I love my F10 too. See you on the MD roads!

[The X Men]

skiajl6297, great looking car, that M sport really adds an aggressive look to the car. In a way, thats my problem with your setup, it looks too aggressive and the 4 cyl cannot back up the aggressive look. I think I would have gotten the 335i without the sport package for about the same price. At least your 528 will handle nicely. Enjoy.

[skiajl6297]

So far absolutely loving the car! My favorite items, in no particular order:

Pros:
1. Love the color - carbon is just constantly different looking in different light. Really digging the uniqueness
2. Love the seats - a huge fan of the multi-countour seats - so many positional options - every day after leaving my "ergonomic" office chair, sitting in this car feels like a dream
3. Totally satisfied with the power - as I suspected, I am sitting in traffic 90% of the time. The MPG combined has surpassed my E90 significantly. I am able to merge and handle all of my commuter roads in the DMV with power to spare.
4. Dynamic Damper - LOVE the many personalities of this car - can be sublime and removed in comfort +, can be aggressive and firm in sport plus. Throughout it all, you know the m sport suspension is there holding you tight - but you can really tweak the personality of the car to suit the driving situation. And going from stop and go to highway merging and back all on the same drive within a few minutes - really makes me appreciate the jack of all trades qualities of the ride.
5. Love the looks of the car. Sure M Sport is aggressive. But it also is unique. I feel like my 528i stands out from the crowd in appearance. Also, since I use my 5'er as a kid hauler, I am not looking to race anyone, so the aggressive looks are purely for my own enjoyment - and for others to enjoy if they see fit. They will beat me every time in a drag race, because I will not be racing this car. I use my power for when I need it, i.e. when driving demands it.
6. First time having Sat Radio - enjoying it very much!
7. iDrive is so much nicer than my 07 iteration. Just feels much more mature and polished.

Cons:
1. Still unsure of how good the traffic information display is on this nav compared to my E90. I felt more confident every day that the info on the E90 was correct, and more visually noticeable. Still tinkering with settings to find the right display mode to really see traffic jams - but I am a little concerned that it is not as visually identifiable as I expected. Any tips?
2. Snap in adapter for iPhone. Car came with BMW apps, but no iPhone snap in. I need to buy one but understand they are pretty pricey. Kind of frustrating given the cost of the car.
3. LATCH connections in back - kind of a pain in the arse. It took me far too long to get my britax's latch connections to link to the connectors which are sandwiched in between the back and seat of the chair. Was much easier in E90 with accessible ports.
4. Non-foldable rear seat. Plenty of trunk space, but would have been nice if rear seats folded down given that I have sport and premium. My own fault for not noticing before buying though.

Overall, I am thrilled. Every day I am excited to drive it!

[Estimated Prophet]

Congratulation on your new 528i. Very nice.

I'm going through the same process of trying to choose between the A6 and the 5 series but I'm also considering the 535i to make things even more confusing.

Since I'm going to be ordering a 2013 I have all the time I need to make a decision. I keep waffling back and forth between the Audi and BMW as both have there strengths and weaknesses. So far I've been able to get two shorter test drives in the A6 and a couple of shorter and last weekend and fairly long test drives in both a 528i and 535i. But the Audi dealership keeps the cars unlocked when they are closed so I have been able to get ample static seat time in the A6. If everything was equal, I would probably have chosen the 535i but it comes in way higher than the 528 and A6.

It's good to hear I'm not the only one thrilled with seats in the A6. Although the ventilated ones in the Prestige model are better they still don't blow me away and are not as comfy as the seats in my M35. I think Audi is missing the boat here and loosing sales by not making their sports seats an option in North America. The multi-contour seats on the other hand are just this side of heaven and fit like a glove. Although the seats in the Audi are not uncomfortable there is no comparison the the multi-contour seats. Major advantage BMW.

I've seen some criticisms of the 5 series for being too conservative but I like the exterior of the 5 series better and strangely enough I like the interior better also. The exterior of the 5'er is just classy in my book. The A6 is also nice looking but I prefer the 5'er. The interior of the A6 is beautiful and functional at the same time while the 5 series seems much more business like and plain. I'm not a fan of the motorized MMI screen in the Audi at all. But one thing I immediately notice between the two is the craftsmanship and built quality of the BMW is head and shoulders above the Audi. Although both have excellent fit and finish, the materials, textures and solid feel of the 5'er makes it a place I want to be. The A6 has a somewhat cheaper feel to me. Not nearly as solid and luxurious as the 528/535. Some of the surfaces have a "hollow" feel/sound that I haven't noticed in the 5 series. I do like the information area Audi has between the speedo and tach. Lots of info can be controlled from the steering wheel and displayed there.

Audi has the advantage of raw power and immediate throttle response. I've been nothing but impressed with the 3.0t engine mated to the 8 speed ZF. The 528 is certainly adequate and the 535 closer to the A6 in addition to silky smoothness and wonderful mechanical sounds. In day-to-day commuting any of the power-trains would enough. Both BMW mills are more fuel efficient than the Audi although all are better than my current Infiniti.

Even though they are pretty close to the same weight the Audi feels and drives like a lighter car. The 5'er feels heavier but this pays dividends on the highway. From the limited seat time I've had the A6 would seem to be a more fun to drive car. The 5 series is a better/quieter cruiser on the open road. If I cut up the back roads a lot this would be more of a downside but the cold, hard facts are I spend most of the time in my car commuting on the freeway The all wheel drive would be wonderful if I lived somewhere it snowed (or even rained) but since it is sunny and dry 99% of time around here AWD isn't a big deal to me. I haven't driven a non-sport 5'er but everything I've read leads me to believe it is a mandatory option for a 5 series while the A6 seems to get along better with the base setup.

The Bose setup in the A6 Prestige model isn't anything special IMHO. The reasonably priced Premium Sound Package in the 5 is better. My BMW dealer was very accommodating in parking two 5 series next to each other and letting me hop back and forth between the two to compare the base/premium sound packages. A nice touch. The B&O in the Audi may be like being in a concert hall but I'll never know because I won't pay $5,900 for an upgraded sound system in a car.

A couple things that concern me about the 5 series is the fact BMW forces us to accept RFT. I've heard nothing but bad things about them and the cost to replace the tires (especially in the sizes that come with the M-sport/535i sport package) is scary considering the very short tread life. What kind of tread life can I expect out of the M-sport RFT? I would hope to get 10k miles out of them since I'm not a particularly aggressive driver (if they don't destroy themselves first). Still $1,500-$2,000 a year in tires is probably a deal breaker for me. There seem to be lots of little and small issues which I'm not sure have been resolved like the HPFP, throttle delay, bent rims, flat tires, vibrations, pulling to the right etc.

I still haven't made up my mind. I'm leaning toward the 5 series but when I price the cars out I can get the A6 for several thousand less than the BMW. If money were no issue it would be an easy dissension but $60k is right at the max I'm willing to spend and the A6 come in significantly lower than this pretty much loaded with everything I want while I have a hard time getting a 535i to come in at this price after I option it the way I want it.

Decisions, decisions.

[Bimmernerd]

Originally Posted by Estimated Prophet

Congratulation on your new 528i. Very nice.

I'm going through the same process of trying to choose between the A6 and the 5 series but I'm also considering the 535i to make things even more confusing.

Since I'm going to be ordering a 2013 I have all the time I need to make a decision. I keep waffling back and forth between the Audi and BMW as both have there strengths and weaknesses. So far I've been able to get two shorter test drives in the A6 and a couple of shorter and last weekend and fairly long test drives in both a 528i and 535i. But the Audi dealership keeps the cars unlocked when they are closed so I have been able to get ample static seat time in the A6. If everything was equal, I would probably have chosen the 535i but it comes in way higher than the 528 and A6.

It's good to hear I'm not the only one thrilled with seats in the A6. Although the ventilated ones in the Prestige model are better they still don't blow me away and are not as comfy as the seats in my M35. I think Audi is missing the boat here and loosing sales by not making their sports seats an option in North America. The multi-contour seats on the other hand are just this side of heaven and fit like a glove. Although the seats in the Audi are not uncomfortable there is no comparison the the multi-contour seats. Major advantage BMW.

I've seen some criticisms of the 5 series for being too conservative but I like the exterior of the 5 series better and strangely enough I like the interior better also. The exterior of the 5'er is just classy in my book. The A6 is also nice looking but I prefer the 5'er. The interior of the A6 is beautiful and functional at the same time while the 5 series seems much more business like and plain. I'm not a fan of the motorized MMI screen in the Audi at all. But one thing I immediately notice between the two is the craftsmanship and built quality of the BMW is head and shoulders above the Audi. Although both have excellent fit and finish, the materials, textures and solid feel of the 5'er makes it a place I want to be. The A6 has a somewhat cheaper feel to me. Not nearly as solid and luxurious as the 528/535. Some of the surfaces have a "hollow" feel/sound that I haven't noticed in the 5 series. I do like the information area Audi has between the speedo and tach. Lots of info can be controlled from the steering wheel and displayed there.

Audi has the advantage of raw power and immediate throttle response. I've been nothing but impressed with the 3.0t engine mated to the 8 speed ZF. The 528 is certainly adequate and the 535 closer to the A6 in addition to silky smoothness and wonderful mechanical sounds. In day-to-day commuting any of the power-trains would enough. Both BMW mills are more fuel efficient than the Audi although all are better than my current Infiniti.

Even though they are pretty close to the same weight the Audi feels and drives like a lighter car. The 5'er feels heavier but this pays dividends on the highway. From the limited seat time I've had the A6 would seem to be a more fun to drive car. The 5 series is a better/quieter cruiser on the open road. If I cut up the back roads a lot this would be more of a downside but the cold, hard facts are I spend most of the time in my car commuting on the freeway The all wheel drive would be wonderful if I lived somewhere it snowed (or even rained) but since it is sunny and dry 99% of time around here AWD isn't a big deal to me. I haven't driven a non-sport 5'er but everything I've read leads me to believe it is a mandatory option for a 5 series while the A6 seems to get along better with the base setup.

The Bose setup in the A6 Prestige model isn't anything special IMHO. The reasonably priced Premium Sound Package in the 5 is better. My BMW dealer was very accommodating in parking two 5 series next to each other and letting me hop back and forth between the two to compare the base/premium sound packages. A nice touch. The B&O in the Audi may be like being in a concert hall but I'll never know because I won't pay $5,900 for an upgraded sound system in a car.

A couple things that concern me about the 5 series is the fact BMW forces us to accept RFT. I've heard nothing but bad things about them and the cost to replace the tires (especially in the sizes that come with the M-sport/535i sport package) is scary considering the very short tread life. What kind of tread life can I expect out of the M-sport RFT? I would hope to get 10k miles out of them since I'm not a particularly aggressive driver (if they don't destroy themselves first). Still $1,500-$2,000 a year in tires is probably a deal breaker for me. There seem to be lots of little and small issues which I'm not sure have been resolved like the HPFP, throttle delay, bent rims, flat tires, vibrations, pulling to the right etc.

I still haven't made up my mind. I'm leaning toward the 5 series but when I price the cars out I can get the A6 for several thousand less than the BMW. If money were no issue it would be an easy dissension but $60k is right at the max I'm willing to spend and the A6 come in significantly lower than this pretty much loaded with everything I want while I have a hard time getting a 535i to come in at this price after I option it the way I want it.

Decisions, decisions.

Are you kidding, 10k miles before replacing the RFT tires? That would mean buying new tires once a year!

On my previous car I had 17" wheels (non RFT though), those tires lasted more than 25k miles...

[Estimated Prophet]

Originally Posted by Bimmernerd

Are you kidding, 10k miles before replacing the RFT tires? That would mean buying new tires once a year!

On my previous car I had 17" wheels (non RFT though), those tires lasted more than 25k miles...

That is why I asked the question of F10 owners. I have read posts where owners have had less than 10k miles before replacing them and want to know if that is normal. It looks to me like the price is getting close to $2,000 to replace the M-sport tires. I'm not sure even if I could get 20k miles of them that I can handle the expense of keeping an F10 in tires.