[AustinPowers007]

I just tried to build a new 2014 535i on BMW.com and the manual transmission option no longer appears in the Options section. What happened? Does anyone know whether BMW has officially discontinued offering the manual transmission option on the 535i? This would be a real shame!

[AustinPowers007]

Please someone out there tell me this isn't true!

[mness]

True. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=752674

[Boss330]

It's still available with a manual transmission here in Europe...

[yogi]

honestly, for a 5 series, i really don't want a manual. i love driving standard, but not in this massive car and in traffic all the time with my commute.

[Boulder Bill]

I have no interest in reviving the MT v. AT debate once more.

But I think this is a very sad development. They dropped the MT on the 550 with the 2014 model year, but I had understood that the MT would stick around for another year with the 535.

Oh well. Guess I'll be hanging on to mine for a while.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

I have no interest in reviving the MT v. AT debate once more.

But I think this is a very sad development. They dropped the MT on the 550 with the 2014 model year, but I had understood that the MT would stick around for another year with the 535.

Oh well. Guess I'll be hanging on to mine for a while.

I will be selling my 2013 550i M-Sport 6MT this summer. I don't expect having much trouble unloading it. Quite a rare setup.

[Keyser Soze]

Be prepared to wait a few months.

My 2013 535 MT has been for sale for months with nary a bite, priced way below any sort of average too (also in Norcal).

I don't have NAV though which doesn't help...but seriously not many out there want the MT. Yours will go because of the 550/Dinan stuff though....GLWS.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Keyser Soze

Be prepared to wait a few months.

My 2013 535 MT has been for sale for months with nary a bite, priced way below any sort of average too (also in Norcal).

I don't have NAV though which doesn't help...but seriously not many out there want the MT. Yours will go because of the 550/Dinan stuff though....GLWS.

Thanks.

Ya...we shall see. I know a very prominent BMW shop owner in the Bay Area (who has done all the Dinan/ACS work on the car as well), who thinks it should go mighty fast. Guess I will just have to wait and see.

[Boulder Bill]

Out of curiosity, why are you selling? More importantly, what are you getting?!

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

Out of curiosity, why are you selling? More importantly, what are you getting?!

I switch out cars every 2-3 years. I am going to test the waters with a sale this summer. If there are no bites, I will sell next summer.

F80 up next.

[ezmaass]

Guys, the statistics won't lie. There's a reason why BMW is dropping the option - it's called demand. If the option was in demand, there's no way they'd drop it. But I'm pretty sure if we had a look at the orders, we'd see a steadily declining demand for a 6MT in a 5-series.

In a world where you can't even buy a Ferrari with a manual transmission anymore, do we really expect massive 4,000+ lb luxury sedans to offer them? I've just never understood the fascination with the manual transmission, if you can't tell. To me it sounds like people saying, "Gee, it's a shame I can't get crank windows anymore... I sure do love the feeling of rolling down the windows versus using that power button." Or... "Remember the good old days of rotary phones?" Really?

There was a time when people could argue that a manual offered better performance and control, but that time has long passed. Ferrari's introduction of the first F1 road-going gearbox on the 355 back in the 90's was the beginning of the end for the manual IMHO. It shifted as fast as the fastest F1 driver, and there would only be improvements from there.

Now granted the BMW's sport auto isn't a dual clutch or anything as fancy, but it IS plenty fast and capable... certainly not a "slushbox" from yesteryear. Options like launch control make it even further attractive if you're into racing a 4 door sedan (another confusing topic for me to be saved for another thread). But my point being, it's a really capable transmission, and these transmissions are becoming ever-more powerful and capable... helping to make manuals completely obsolete. And while you may claim some kind of visceral attachment to a manual, rowing your own gears, yadda, yadda... the best PERFORMING technology is ultimately going to win out.... which is why we're seeing electronic steering, drive-by-wire gas and brake, adaptive suspensions, and all sorts of stuff that's displacing old technology little by little... progress, my friends.

[Boulder Bill]

Maybe you inadvertently missed the first line of my earlier post:

"I have no interest in reviving the MT v. AT debate once more."

Of course it is demand. That wasn't in doubt. But notwithstanding your loquacious waxing, it is still a sad development.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Guys, the statistics won't lie. There's a reason why BMW is dropping the option - it's called demand. If the option was in demand, there's no way they'd drop it. But I'm pretty sure if we had a look at the orders, we'd see a steadily declining demand for a 6MT in a 5-series.

In a world where you can't even buy a Ferrari with a manual transmission anymore, do we really expect massive 4,000+ lb luxury sedans to offer them? I've just never understood the fascination with the manual transmission, if you can't tell. To me it sounds like people saying, "Gee, it's a shame I can't get crank windows anymore... I sure do love the feeling of rolling down the windows versus using that power button." Or... "Remember the good old days of rotary phones?" Really?

There was a time when people could argue that a manual offered better performance and control, but that time has long passed. Ferrari's introduction of the first F1 road-going gearbox on the 355 back in the 90's was the beginning of the end for the manual IMHO. It shifted as fast as the fastest F1 driver, and there would only be improvements from there.

Now granted the BMW's sport auto isn't a dual clutch or anything as fancy, but it IS plenty fast and capable... certainly not a "slushbox" from yesteryear. Options like launch control make it even further attractive if you're into racing a 4 door sedan (another confusing topic for me to be saved for another thread). But my point being, it's a really capable transmission, and these transmissions are becoming ever-more powerful and capable... helping to make manuals completely obsolete. And while you may claim some kind of visceral attachment to a manual, rowing your own gears, yadda, yadda... the best PERFORMING technology is ultimately going to win out.... which is why we're seeing electronic steering, drive-by-wire gas and brake, adaptive suspensions, and all sorts of stuff that's displacing old technology little by little... progress, my friends.

Weak comparisons (crank windows and rotary phones)....really?

I don't think people are opting for manual transmissions (if available) these days because they believe that they perform better than a dual clutch auto gear box...but rather because they prefer the feel and control that only a manual clutch and gear shifter can give you. No computers making decisions for you. If you can't understand that, at least let those who do mourn in peace.

[Boulder Bill]

Amen, so to speak.

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

I've just never understood the fascination with the manual transmission

Auto with or without paddles = boring
Manual = fun

I hope this helps you understand our "fascination with the manual transmission"

[JamRWS6]

Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR

Auto with or without paddles = boring
Manual = fun

I hope this helps you understand our "fascination with the manual transmission"

Losing isn't fun..

I drove my last MT car for 10 years and had many of the same feelings you do. When the 8AT provides better economy, and performs like it does the MTs will be gone fast. They don't provide any more control or flexibility and screwing around with a clutch in traffic is not fun. These new transmissions shift just as fast on every gear change and are smooth every shift. Better technology, life moves on.

[yogi]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

Losing isn't fun..

I drove my last MT car for 10 years and had many of the same feelings you do. When the 8AT provides better economy, and performs like it does the MTs will be gone fast. They don't provide any more control or flexibility and screwing around with a clutch in traffic is not fun. These new transmissions shift just as fast on every gear change and are smooth every shift. Better technology, life moves on.

+1

dont get me wrong, i love a manual on certain cars. i just dont feel like it needs to be on a 5 series.

[Keyser Soze]

Is MT still available on M5 for another year or two at least?

I'll admit that I'd like the MT on my 535 a hell of a lot better if I could actually hear and enjoy the engine, just everything is so secluded, quiet, luxurious on this chassis in non-M form. Even heel toe is just sort of "meh". YMMV. Of course a nasty exhaust would fix that. :devil:

We all can agree that Auto's are boring as shyte but in their current form, have never been better and less of a compromise.

[TheRealOrosie]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

Losing isn't fun..

I drove my last MT car for 10 years and had many of the same feelings you do. When the 8AT provides better economy, and performs like it does the MTs will be gone fast. They don't provide any more control or flexibility and screwing around with a clutch in traffic is not fun. These new transmissions shift just as fast on every gear change and are smooth every shift. Better technology, life moves on.

Who is losing? The confused fellow drag racing his 5 series?

Again, I did not get a manual because I thought it was "faster/better" than the new autos. Just felt like rowing gears.

[1HOT BMR]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

Losing isn't fun..

I drove my last MT car for 10 years and had many of the same feelings you do. When the 8AT provides better economy, and performs like it does the MTs will be gone fast. They don't provide any more control or flexibility and screwing around with a clutch in traffic is not fun. These new transmissions shift just as fast on every gear change and are smooth every shift. Better technology, life moves on.

Perhaps you were driving a manual because you thought they were faster, or gave you better fuel economy or gave you more control and flexibility. I believe that those of us who buy manuals today do it because we enjoy driving, and rowing a manual is a big part of that enjoyment. Autopilot equipped aircraft can be controled easier by turning knobs for precise changes in heading and altitude but I much rather use the stick and pedals to land mine

[ezmaass]

The arguments for the MT option seem to boil down to nostalgia here. The MT can provide no better efficiency, performance, or control... and it actually inflicts upon the driver more work, especially in heavy traffic.

I get nostalgia. But let's not pretend it's something more. For anyone who's been around cars for several decades, we've heard these types of arguments for all sorts of tech as it fades and becomes obsolete... things will never be the same, cars will never drive the same, the fun is gone, yadda, yadda, yadda. *YAWN*

Walk into a local nursing home and talk to some seriously old guys there. People tend to get mentally stuck at the time when they were at the height of their game in life. Guys in that nursing home will be sporting clothes from 30 or 40 years ago because there's just "nothing like them anymore on the market." They'll watch reruns of TV and movies from their generations because "all the great actors are now dead and gone." They'll listen to music from 50 years ago back when "there were real bands and singers."

The MT is an icon of a time gone by... along with teal high-waist pants, The Love Boat, and James Brown. It had a purpose, it's now gone. We can appreciate the nostalgia, but newer technology is better, more effective, and more efficient... and guess what, it's also FUN, grandpa. Try telling a Formula 1 driver that paddles just aren't "real" or "fun." Or convince Ferrari that drivers just can't feel "connected" to their 458 Italia because they can't row their own gears.

Cars are pieces of technology - they need to move forward to remain relevant.