[Ben2k9]

Originally Posted by twssas

I follow the Tennessee Titans......

Boy the Titans suck...I wish they would get it together. I live in Nashville and it sure would be nice to have a competitive team

[twssas]

Originally Posted by Ben2k9

Boy the Titans suck...I wish they would get it together. I live in Nashville and it sure would be nice to have a competitive team

Well I'm hoping now for a number 1 draft pick. But come to think about it, titans will probably screw that up too.

[tnikolov]

Coming from '10 F10 with dynamic dampers control (no msport) to '14 X5 with DHP and active roll stabilization (no msport again) I would say DHP is much much better in basically any single way. Hope DHP is as good on the F10 as it is on the F15!

[ezmaass]

Get the DHP (active dampers + roll stablization) if you want multiple personalities for your suspension. Get the passive sport suspension if you want a stiff ride full time.

Personally I think DHP suits this car very well and wouldn't order it any other way. Then again, I've driven stiffer sport sedans for many years, and I'm over it. I want my sedan to be comfortable these days with the option to click a button and tighten it up when the situation calls for it. Otherwise, driving over a cobblestone or rutted NYC / Boston street with a passive sport suspension? No thanks.

[valbmw]

I have the M Sport passive suspension and IMO it still needs both sway bars and springs upgraded to be as sport as it sold. For sure we need to be realistic about the roads quality in a particular area. However if I would have been given the second chance and budget, I would definitely take the DHP, it's the best option.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Get the DHP (active dampers + roll stablization) if you want multiple personalities for your suspension. Get the passive sport suspension if you want a stiff ride full time.

That sums it up well.

Originally Posted by ezmaass

Personally I think DHP suits this car very well and wouldn't order it any other way. Then again, I've driven stiffer sport sedans for many years, and I'm over it. I want my sedan to be comfortable these days with the option to click a button and tighten it up when the situation calls for it.

Same here, passive is too limited, by comparison. Many of my roads work best with a more supple suspension setting, I use the mid setting more than Sport. Better road quality and I'll dial in Sport and enjoy the tighter feel.

HighlandPete

[mpress]

i had dhp in my gt550, and just took delivery wednesday of my new 535 m sport no dup… all the chatter had me wondering if i made a mistake?/ if i needed to go get stiffer springs??….. so this morning i found a dealer in greenwich that had a 535 m sport without dhp and a 535 m sport with dhp (managers car) both were drives, overall I'm glad i went the way i did… as it has been stated here prior…
the car with dup had no stiffer handling nor better handling on heavily curvy roads or in any of the hard maneuvers i took the cars through, the windy roads were handled better by the non dhp… however as also stated, on bumpy rough roads the dhp was a more comfortable ride and PERHAPS not sure but maybe on some of the twisty roads that were also heavily potholed or rough roads the dhp may have kept the car a little more settled, whether it handled better or was just a little less jittery from the dhp is hard to tell….overall for me that normally drives in sport mode with the exception of the rough patches of my commute into NYC, Non dhp M sport suspension was the right choice…
I am glad i was able to put the two options side by side and put my concerns to bed… all that said i wish dinah made the dinan performance springs available for the f10 535 not just thef10 550. the along with the supplemental ride kit $400 for all not including an hour of installation would make for the perfect car, they only lower the car .5" and maintain the ride fairly equal to what it si not to rough but really shine in corners, hard stops and quick launches keeping the car from any roll, or dips…
mp

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by mpress

the car with dup had no stiffer handling nor better handling on heavily curvy roads or in any of the hard maneuvers i took the cars through, the windy roads were handled better by the non dhp…
…I am glad i was able to put the two options side by side and put my concerns to bed…

I'm glad you're happy with your choice.

BUT.....I could not disagree more about your view on car handling here.
Car in sport or sport+ mode with DHP is not just about suspension stiffness changes, throttle response is also different among other "on the fly" changes. With DHP you also get flexibility as a bonus (granted, normal and comfort modes are not for everybody, I barely ever use comfort myself).

As I said in one of my other posts on DHP while ago, I can't believe people who tried both cannot tell the difference. So in my opinion, your impression might be slightly misleading to others who might consider both choices and have no chance to try both.

[mpress]

BBB34,
Unfortunately you are far from accurate and your information and comments sound very much like they came either from uninformed bmw salespeople (of which there are far to many) or from inaccurate opinions or information from various forums..

my opinion was simply my opinion however, it is fairly educated and formed by my driving history which includes, racing cars for both BF goodrich and Porsche at Lime Rock race track. so i like to think it is a fairly supported opinion and one that has many followers on various forums.

the following information however is not an opinion but information from instructors at the BMW performance driving school that are educated at both the BMW USA PDC and Lime Rock race track. these instructors spend numerous hours understanding the various performance, comfort and safety systems built into BMW cars.

So to be clear: it is important to first understand the three forces that are placed on a car and the systems BMW and more so Porsche have created to combat them..they are Vertical movement dynamics, lateral movement dynamics and yaw!

DHP or as it is referred to by BMW "DHP with adaptive drive", does one thing and one thing only it controls vertical movement nothing more..it incorporates ARS active roll stabilization which utilizes vertical stabilizers on the front and rear axles, and (DDC1)dynamic damper control which in milliseconds increases or deceases psi pressure within the shock absorbers to make for a more controlled ride, where people get confused and where you may have been led to believe steering is involved in DHP is that bmw states that this helps insure precise steering..yes it does because it keeps the car more stabilized..especially for those that are not used to pushing the limits of car. Remember most systems in bmws these days are there to keep those that shouldn't be driving a bmw on the road not in a ditch. Also NOTE DHP WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED AS A COMFORT PACKAGE NOT A PERFORMANCE PACKAGE!

To the point of "stiffness" the PSI of an M sport suspension is actually higher then that of a non m sport with DHP suspension..thus an M sport set up car will have a stiffer overall ride and ultimately a sportier overall ride.

The problem is with BMW's use of the word Dynamic over and over again!!!

In regard to your comments of throttle response, steering and other "on the fly" changes...you are inaccurate again none of that happens within DHP. However, bmw 535s, and 550s are all set up with DDC (yes another ddc) driving dynamics control, this is actually your comfort+, comfort, sport, and sport+ system, and it does indeed change throttle response and steering assist levels, and transmission shift points.In addition the cars are set with DSC and DTC more dynamics...stabilty control and traction control, both come into play when we drive hard but again has no bearing on dhp or non dhp equipped cars....

Note DHP equipped cars have no difference in their set up as far as comfort sport and sport plus modes, DHP does not deliver a stiffer suspension, it operates to maintain an equivalence and evenness to the shocks that maybe by stiffing one shock while SOFTENING another...thus a more level ride not a more sporty ride.

One last misconception while I'm at it..

SAT sport automatic transmission IS more then a pretty shifter and paddles, it actually changes the shift points of the car by as much as 500-800 rpms, there is actually a greater difference noticeable in down shifting then upshifitng..if you such my bimmerfest posts there is a long article about how it does this and gets more into the rev matching .... but SAT does deliver a sportier ride, and yes it is true you can code in SAT into a non sat car to achieve the shift points you just don't get the prettier shifter and the paddles....personally i thing the non sat shifter is downright ugly.....(THATS JUST AN OPINION NOT A FACT)

i hope this is taken the way it is intended to clear up some misguided information from many poorly taught salespeople and misinformed forum members that get caught up in a game of telephone and repost what they have read not knowing where it came from..

of course in the long run a lot of this is BMW's fault for their confusion information, partial explanations and other marketing tools they use to sell cars...
i personally have enjoyed humorously listening to bmw ca's talk for ten minutes about something they have no idea about.....

if you ask 10 salespeople what dhp is 5 won't know at all, 4 will give you different answers, and maybe 1 might get it completely right....

But when it all comes down, there are those that love DHP, those that don't, and those that swear and defend that there car is better because they spent 3500 more dollars on dhp .... well you can also spend another 20K and get a 7 series..guess what its even more comfortable but less of a true drivers car! DHP IN MY EYES IS A VERY GOOD THING!! be it for comfort in the hans of someone that can drive the car the way it can be driven and for safety for those that think they can and shouldn't!

best all and hope this helps
mp

[valbmw]

Originally Posted by twssas

Question....Will the M Sport give a comparable handling feel to her current E60, or will she need DHP, or both?

Second question, does the 2015 F10's have the ability to put the steering in a heavier mode, like sports +, and leave the transmission/engine in comfort?

For anyone who has made the change from an e60 sports package, what is your opinion, on the DHP/M Sports issues.

anyway, your opinions, comments?

BMW terminology and sources are sometimes unclear or even confusing, the information can be very fragmented, and that makes the whole thing a permanent puzzle. To respond on a solid basis, let me start from key definitions followed by some thoughts/experience and finish with conclusion and recommendation.

The basic definitions can be found in the 2014 BMW 5 series F10 Pricing Guide (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842774):

ZMM M Sport Line
…
337 M Sport Package
715 Aerodynamic kit
704 M sport suspension*
…
*Added M sport suspension (704) to ZMM on 535i, 550i, and 535d RWD models effective
SOP 09/13
*704 M Sport suspension not available for xDrive models

ZDH Dynamic Handling Package
2VA Adaptive Drive Includes Active Roll Stabilization and Dynamic Damper Control. Will delete 704 when ordered with ZMM.
*ZMM in combination with ZDH deletes 704 on 535i, 550i, and 535d RWD models.

Now let’s come back to the OP questions and I will try to put together short answers.

A1. M Sport suspension (704) as a part of ZMM, is passive. Compared to the Standard one, it has shorter springs (10 mm), thicker sway bars (+2 mm) and may come with different dampers.

Compared to E60, the F10 is bigger and heavier and together with more comfort suspension design it is basically not that nimble as E60 (confirmed with many feedbacks). The M Sport suspension of F10 improves drive firmness and cornering, but not equally to E60. And: the option 704 it is not available for xDrive models.

For the Standard and M Sport suspensions (also for xDrive cars with the Standard) the most effective improvement to handling quality is: sway bars upgrade (M5/650 or H&R) and sport springs (H&R, Eibach, ACS).

Dynamic Handling Package ZDH (2VA) is active. By definition it has the different purpose: offering variable suspension settings that will adapt the car to specific road conditions. When it is set to Sport+, the car with DHP seems to be at least equal or slightly stiffer than M Sport, but the main purpose is not stiffness but the variety, and this is the clear added value.
DHP deletes the M Sport suspension.

A2. The following option enables changing of steering (as asked), accelerator pedal reaction and transmission shift points:

2TB Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles
*2TB requires ordering ZLL, ZML or ZMM

This functionality is completely explained here: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416668

BMW Driving Experience training course provides the great table on how the 2VA + 2TB work together. Here is my translation, maybe somebody knows the original document:



A3. When the above options of F10 are compared to E60 with sports package, the picture is clear. DHP is a perfect thing but offering functionality that somebody may not really need, and the active elements (sway bars, dampers) are more complex, heavier and the whole system adds about $3500 to the bill. The M Sport suspension on F10 is a sort of tricky, not compatible to xDrive, has questionable improvement to handling vs. much more effective retrofit of Standard suspension with upgraded sway bars and springs.

A4. My conclusion and recommendation: if you have budget and want to have excellent drivetrain flexibility – take the DHP, maybe with the option 2TB, and enjoy. If you want more a simplicity and/or limited with budget – take the standard suspension and then upgrade it like many times discussed on the forum: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...717144&page=14

Note: Other members can improve or correct it when necessary. Digging and putting together that knowledge from BMW is a tough job, even the dealers are often speechless or mistaken when coping with the same issues.

[twssas]

Originally Posted by valbmw

BMW terminology and sources are sometimes unclear or even confusing, the information can be very fragmented, and that makes the whole thing a permanent puzzle. To respond on a solid basis, let me start from key definitions followed by some thoughts/experience and finish with conclusion and recommendation.

The basic definitions can be found in the 2014 BMW 5 series F10 Pricing Guide (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=842774):

ZMM M Sport Line
…
337 M Sport Package
715 Aerodynamic kit
704 M sport suspension*
…
*Added M sport suspension (704) to ZMM on 535i, 550i, and 535d RWD models effective
SOP 09/13
*704 M Sport suspension not available for xDrive models

ZDH Dynamic Handling Package
2VA Adaptive Drive Includes Active Roll Stabilization and Dynamic Damper Control. Will delete 704 when ordered with ZMM.
*ZMM in combination with ZDH deletes 704 on 535i, 550i, and 535d RWD models.

Now let’s come back to the OP questions and I will try to put together short answers.

A1. M Sport suspension (704) as a part of ZMM, is passive. Compared to the Standard one, it has shorter springs (10 mm), thicker sway bars (+2 mm) and may come with different dampers.

Compared to E60, the F10 is bigger and heavier and together with more comfort suspension design it is basically not that nimble as E60 (confirmed with many feedbacks). The M Sport suspension of F10 improves drive firmness and cornering, but not equally to E60. And: the option 704 it is not available for xDrive models.

For the Standard and M Sport suspensions (also for xDrive cars with the Standard) the most effective improvement to handling quality is: sway bars upgrade (M5/650 or H&R) and sport springs (H&R, Eibach, ACS).

Dynamic Handling Package ZDH (2VA) is active. By definition it has the different purpose: offering variable suspension settings that will adapt the car to specific road conditions. When it is set to Sport+, the car with DHP seems to be at least equal or slightly stiffer than M Sport, but the main purpose is not stiffness but the variety, and this is the clear added value.
DHP deletes the M Sport suspension.

A2. The following option enables changing of steering (as asked), accelerator pedal reaction and transmission shift points:

2TB Sport automatic transmission with shift paddles
*2TB requires ordering ZLL, ZML or ZMM

This functionality is completely explained here: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416668

BMW Driving Experience training course provides the great table on how the 2VA + 2TB work together. Here is my translation, maybe somebody knows the original document:

Attachment 1136657

A3. When the above options of F10 are compared to E60 with sports package, the picture is clear. DHP is a perfect thing but offering functionality that somebody may not really need, and the active elements (sway bars, dampers) are more complex, heavier and the whole system adds about $3500 to the bill. The M Sport suspension on F10 is a sort of tricky, not compatible to xDrive, has questionable improvement to handling vs. much more effective retrofit of Standard suspension with upgraded sway bars and springs.

A4. My conclusion and recommendation: if you have budget and want to have excellent drivetrain flexibility – take the DHP, maybe with the option 2TB, and enjoy. If you want more a simplicity and/or limited with budget – take the standard suspension and then upgrade it like many times discussed on the forum: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...717144&page=14

Note: Other members can improve or correct it when necessary. Digging and putting together that knowledge from BMW is a tough job, even the dealers are often speechless or mistaken when coping with the same issues.

Wow. You did quite a bit of research putting this together. Quite impressive amount of work. I appreciate you doing this. This entire thread has been quite informative. There is a lot of knowledge here.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by mpress

BBB34,
In regard to your comments of throttle response, steering and other "on the fly" changes...you are inaccurate again none of that happens within DHP. However, bmw 535s, and 550s are all set up with DDC (yes another ddc) driving dynamics control,...stabilty control and traction control, both come into play when we drive hard but again has no bearing on dhp or non dhp equipped cars....

best all and hope this helps
mp

Well and in detail explained, thanks.

Given your background I'll assume you know what you're talking about. But according to BMW documentation, DDC you are talking about above is part of DHP, so saying "none of that happens with DHP" might not be accurate.

Here's what you can find if you dig deep enough.

Drive Dynamic Control

- By pressing a button, you can adjust the driving characteristic of new BMW 5 Series Saloon, according to your requirements. The system fine tunes such features as accelerator response or steering assistance, enabling you to individualize the dynamic feel of your BMW. In conduction with the optional chassis and suspension control systems, Adaptive Drive and Variable Damper Control, the damper can be fine tuned as well for maximum ride comfort.

Now this DDC according to documentation is included with 2TB, 2VA, 223 and 2VH options.

Correct me if I’m wrong but S229A + S2VAA + S223A options are what we here call DHP, thus my “on the fly” changes comment with DHP.

Also, I’m in agreement with you on salespeople, lots of ones I met (at dealership where I service, but did not buy my car) do not know much about DHP.

[Noggie]

I have never driven a f10 with m-sport, nor have I much experience with the e60.
I have an F11 with all the suspension gadgets except rear wheel steering, one can also note that the F11 has air suspension in the rear.

In comfort the nose rises and dips a lot during normal driving, but the active swaybars limits the body roll.
Sport or Sport+ has a much firmer ride, the nose lift and dips are greatly reduced, and I feel a lot more of road imperfections and road markings. I also get heavier steering and a more sensitive throttle, and the gearbox will hold the gears for much longer.
So there is a significant change in the different modes.

Now. My old car was a e46 M3 with KW v3 coilover suspension with two way adjustable shocks and camber plates.

When driving on the narrow twisty backroads in my area, I doubt that the M3 would be any faster than the F11.
Yes the F11 is softer, but the active suspension parts and the longer wheelbase makes it incredibly stable.
Only thing I notice is that the rear end feels a little soft when throwing it into corners, I guess some 20" or 21" wheels and programming a lower setting on the air suspension would solve that.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Noggie

I have an F11 with all the suspension gadgets except rear wheel steering, one can also note that the F11 has air suspension in the rear.

So there is a significant change in the different modes.

Only thing I notice is that the rear end feels a little soft when throwing it into corners, I guess some 20" or 21" wheels and programming a lower setting on the air suspension would solve that.

Remember in the F11 wagon we have in effect a variable rear spring rate, due to running air springs. It is one feature of the whole active suspension which I like, the rear runs a softer more comfortable ride unloaded, than a higher spring rate steel spring, suitable to carry the wagon's maximum rear axle loading. It obviously is stiffer when loaded, due to running more air pressure to self level.

My F11 also feels very different as I run the through the modes.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by mpress

....So to be clear: it is important to first understand the three forces that are placed on a car and the systems BMW and more so Porsche have created to combat them..they are Vertical movement dynamics, lateral movement dynamics and yaw!

DHP or as it is referred to by BMW "DHP with adaptive drive", does one thing and one thing only it controls vertical movement nothing more..it incorporates ARS active roll stabilization which utilizes vertical stabilizers on the front and rear axles, and (DDC1)dynamic damper control which in milliseconds increases or deceases psi pressure within the shock absorbers to make for a more controlled ride, where people get confused and where you may have been led to believe steering is involved in DHP is that bmw states that this helps insure precise steering..yes it does because it keeps the car more stabilized..especially for those that are not used to pushing the limits of car. Remember most systems in bmws these days are there to keep those that shouldn't be driving a bmw on the road not in a ditch. Also NOTE DHP WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED AS A COMFORT PACKAGE NOT A PERFORMANCE PACKAGE!

I suggest you are over simplifying the way Adaptive Drive works, as it is influencing longitudinal & lateral movements and to a degree yaw, in addition to the vertical movements. There are two base programmes for ARS, so along with a firmer baseline for VDC in Sport and Sport+, ARS steps up a notch as well, to further reduce body roll in the Sport modes.

The handling balance is also tuned on the fly, allowing a neutral handling balance at moderate speeds and moving to under steer as we work the chassis harder. It was one of the first things I picked up in the F11 wagon, improves the steering response contributes to the chassis feeling much more nimble. BMW technical data explains this ability of ARS to be used that way.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Here's a pretty good explanation of Adaptive Drive, It is demonstrated on the X5, but much applies to the F10/11.

HighlandPete

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by Noggie

In comfort the nose rises and dips a lot during normal driving, but the active swaybars limits the body roll.
Sport or Sport+ has a much firmer ride, the nose lift and dips are greatly reduced, and I feel a lot more of road imperfections and road markings.

Good observation.
If you want to understand it completely you need to look at the core components.
Active sacrifices some sportiness for comfort with the use of softer springs, as dip cannot be counteracted except by damper setting, and I don't think they would do that as it would just be too hard, so maybe they need vertical (back-front) ARS in future generations.

Active is a near-complete system that gives both comfort and sport abilities, however there are minor holes, a certain proportion of people would prefer the passive M or perhaps a even sportier setting. (Note: the M5 does not have active ARS, only active dampers)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by grimlock

Active is a near-complete system that gives both comfort and sport abilities, however there are minor holes, a certain proportion of people would prefer the passive M or perhaps a even sportier setting. (Note: the M5 does not have active ARS, only active dampers)

As long as we know what we personally are after, and appreciate the limits and compromises of either suspension system, we can weigh up which is best for us.

I personally was looking to expand the suspension working envelope, from comfort to a reasonably 'sporty' drive. Do not particularly want a car that sits too low, or I will have grounding issues on single track roads, high curbs and a couple of places I visit with difficult access.

My roads are of very mixed surfaces. A passive sport suspension is too uncomfortable on many of the imperfections, as I've said before, becomes tiresome. The standard (SE) passive suspension in the UK is just not my sort of suspension, it is a bit bouncy and doesn't feel planted on poor surfaces.

Adaptive Drive fits my brief (needs) perfectly, I find in my conditions the spring rate is pretty much perfect, damping across the modes a good set of compromises and the mid setting well sorted for the worst of surfaces.

Someone else with different needs and/or different roads may not get anything like the benefits I get from being able to select a different mode as I drive. Totally understand that.

Other drivers want a firmer suspension whatever the conditions, are willing to 'crash' or jiggle along over bad surfaces, have the stiffer responses without any electronics interfering to soften the ride. Still others are looking to make it even more firm in function.

I've always seen Adaptive Drive and M-sport suspensions as "different", to fill different needs, rather than one be better than another.

I genuinely get a better drive from AD, than I would from M-sport, simply because it is adjustable, the compromises better suit my requirements from an F10/11 chassis.

What does stand out to me about AD, it is a well sorted system when we consider how comfortable it can be, how flat it corners. But at the same time is still capable of being driven with enthusiasm, without losing its composure. Almost a contradiction.

HighlandPete

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

As long as we know what we personally are after, and appreciate the limits and compromises of either suspension system, we can weigh up which is best for us.

I personally was looking to expand the suspension working envelope, from comfort to a reasonably 'sporty' drive. Do not particularly want a car that sits too low, or I will have grounding issues on single track roads, high curbs and a couple of places I visit with difficult access.

My roads are of very mixed surfaces. A passive sport suspension is too uncomfortable on many of the imperfections, as I've said before, becomes tiresome. The standard (SE) passive suspension in the UK is just not my sort of suspension, it is a bit bouncy and doesn't feel planted on poor surfaces.

Adaptive Drive fits my brief (needs) perfectly, I find in my conditions the spring rate is pretty much perfect, damping across the modes a good set of compromises and the mid setting well sorted for the worst of surfaces.

Someone else with different needs and/or different roads may not get anything like the benefits I get from being able to select a different mode as I drive. Totally understand that.

Other drivers want a firmer suspension whatever the conditions, are willing to 'crash' or jiggle along over bad surfaces, have the stiffer responses without any electronics interfering to soften the ride. Still others are looking to make it even more firm in function.

I've always seen Adaptive Drive and M-sport suspensions as "different", to fill different needs, rather than one be better than another.

I genuinely get a better drive from AD, than I would from M-sport, simply because it is adjustable, the compromises better suit my requirements from an F10/11 chassis.

What does stand out to me about AD, it is a well sorted system when we consider how comfortable it can be, how flat it corners. But at the same time is still capable of being driven with enthusiasm, without losing its composure. Almost a contradiction.

HighlandPete

Hi Pete,

It's great that we can both be very satisfied with our car configurations (mine is basic suspension with only eibach 550 springs modded).
I do not notice any 'floatiness' that I had previously, and most importantly the super-strong springs allow me to throw the car into corners pretty much to the limit of the tires whereas before it felt as if the boat was going to flip over.
Hi-tech or low-tech, you can get this car to perform the way you want it.. I love being able to chase little cars and amaze larger cars entering corners at much higher speeds then an F10 is expected - with onlookers expecting it to roll - but dammit why doesn't it lean? Lol adaptive drive /or upgraded springs/ARBS!

[mpress]

highland pete you need to look further the adaptive drive system in the x5 (which i believe was the first to use it) is a much different animal then the current system in the 5 series, just as the 4 and 6 while called the same also utilize a different format of ars, adaptive drive and dhp in general….overall the dhp in the 5 series is the most short changed of all and if you reach out to bmw techs it is predominately a vertical stabilization system…from that yes there are other benefits and for many particularly those that don't or are not comfortable driving by the seat of their pants dup, will benefit them greatly in controlling other aspect particularly lateral dynamics of the car but dup does not mechanically directly effect it.

unfortunately if you read through many of the posts regarding it there is far more inaccurate information out there then correct explanations of the benefits..

at some dealerships they aren't even always sure if their test drive cars have it or not…I've actually heard people say they love how the dh feels only to find out the car didn't have it….

i do a free it is completely a personal taste as many options are and more importantly an option that if you know what it will or won't do in relation to what you want from your car…it has heat benefits…. id like to see the dup/ars system from the M6 gc incorporated or the one supposedly being developed for the Msport next gen 7 series which will hopefully be the real testing ground for luxury sedan that can be both very comfortable and very driven!!

I do question why bmw refuses to engineer a 5 series (a sedan that some of us are more comfortable in then a 3 from a luxury and size standpoint but still love to be able to drive hard when we want) that would incorporate the M car suspension and a full version of dhp stiff when we want and comfy but controlled when we wish.. i will say my old gt 550, with dhp and dinan performance springs and supplemental handling package was an amazing drive!

mp

[mpress]

highland your reference to the wagon is much like my reference to my gt, but the systems in the 5 sedan is not that system!

[Noggie]

Maybe my car is different than normal 5's.
Maybe there is differences between US and Euro cars, this has been the case in the past.

My car is completely different in comfort and sport.
BUT..... I have an M Performance car, not a regular 5, and that might be set up different than normal 5's DHP.
In the past I have done a lot of track driving, like the Nürburgring, and even ice track driving.
I have had several cars with adjustable coilover suspension and have been running different street and track setups.
I can tell if the car handles different and not just think so because I selected sport.
And I find the DHP to be the best stock suspension system I have had on any BMW. That does not mean there is no room for improvement.
I would have liked some stiffer springs up front and tweeked the rear air suspension for some more race oriented driving.

Edit.
Did a quick search.
Looks like BMW ///M has tinkered a bit with it, which might explain a lot.
http://m-power.com/_open/b/varlink1.jsp?id=2713&lang=en