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      02-19-2011, 01:06 AM   #1
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Auto box kickdown seems slow

Hi guys

I've had the 535d MS a few days now but only a few miles.

I'm finding the gaerbox a little odd, I have the sport auto option btw.

If I'm in normal auto mode and want to overtake etc and I suddenly press the throttle all the way down but not past the 'click' (ie not true kickdown) there seems to be a really long delay before it drops down a gear.

Years ago I had an AMG Merc and if I did the same thing in that the reaction felt instantaneous, I would have though things would be even better now.

This sluggish response means that my confidence to commit to a maneuver is diminished.

Anybody else found this?

Thanks
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      02-19-2011, 01:40 AM   #2
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duuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, shouldn't be "kicking down" first 1200 miles. The car manual says do not exceed 4500 rpm or 100 miles an hour for first 1200 miles.

As for the kickdown, my 2008 535 and 2011 550 pulled like a train when I hit the "kick down". If your confidence is diminished when accelerating in a 535 then there probably is something wrong, diminished should not be the first word that comes to mind when discussing the 535.
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      02-19-2011, 02:02 AM   #3
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Hi delvek,

My dealer said this running in thing is no longer relevant as modern cars come already run in and told me to just drive it like normal. Think about demo cars, when we test them at the dealer do we keep the revs below a certain rpm. Anyway if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

Back to the gearbox. Its not that the car doesn't pull once it gets going. What happens is.... lets say I'm cruising in the middle lane in a higher gear and I now want to overtake. From having light pressure on the throttle I give it a quick prod all the way down to but not beyond the kickdown point. In cars I have driven before this has been enough to tell the gearbox you want to do something and the box will very very quickly drop down a gear.

In this car it seems to take longer.

Anyway, today will be my first proper drive of the car and I'll be able to investigate further.

btw, why did you sell your first 550?
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      02-19-2011, 02:52 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delvek View Post
The car manual says do not exceed 4500 rpm or 100 miles an hour for first 1200 miles.

As for the kickdown, my 2008 535 and 2011 550 pulled like a train when I hit the "kick down". If your confidence is diminished when accelerating in a 535 then there probably is something wrong, diminished should not be the first word that comes to mind when discussing the 535.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
My dealer said this running in thing is no longer relevant as modern cars come already run in and told me to just drive it like normal. Think about demo cars, when we test them at the dealer do we keep the revs below a certain rpm. Anyway if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.

Back to the gearbox. Its not that the car doesn't pull once it gets going. What happens is.... lets say I'm cruising in the middle lane in a higher gear and I now want to overtake. From having light pressure on the throttle I give it a quick prod all the way down to but not beyond the kickdown point. In cars I have driven before this has been enough to tell the gearbox you want to do something and the box will very very quickly drop down a gear.

In this car it seems to take longer.
Delvek is right about running the car in and the limitations are clearly stated in the owners handbook.
Did your dealer advice come from a salesman or a technician? If it was the former, they're not exactly renowned for their technical knowledge.
I erred very much on the side of caution whilst running-in my 535d MS and it certainly hasn't done any harm. I find the sport auto to be amazingly responsive - I didn't attempt a kick-down until I had over 3K miles on the car, but when I did, I can only describe the result as instantly explosive for such a large car. The box will also drop gears, as required and very quickly, with moderate pressure on the accelerator, well before reaching the kick-down switch.
Another benefit from correct running-in is that, after 4.5K miles, the oil level is exactly where it was on delivery - on the top notch of the dipstick.
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      02-19-2011, 06:55 AM   #5
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Yes, break-in period is stated in the manual.
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      02-19-2011, 06:59 AM   #6
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Yes the advice was from the salesman, I suppose I'm old enough to have known better

I haven't actually done a full kickdown, I've only pushed the pedal down to that point just before the kickdown.

Perhaps I just need more time to get used to the gearbox
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      02-19-2011, 07:14 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
Hi guys

I've had the 535d MS a few days now but only a few miles.

I'm finding the gaerbox a little odd, I have the sport auto option btw.

If I'm in normal auto mode and want to overtake etc and I suddenly press the throttle all the way down but not past the 'click' (ie not true kickdown) there seems to be a really long delay before it drops down a gear.

Years ago I had an AMG Merc and if I did the same thing in that the reaction felt instantaneous, I would have though things would be even better now.

This sluggish response means that my confidence to commit to a maneuver is diminished.

Anybody else found this?

Thanks

Do you also feel some hesitation and/or jerking when trying to accelerate from stop or low speeds?
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      02-19-2011, 07:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneMan View Post
Do you also feel some hesitation and/or jerking when trying to accelerate from stop or low speeds?
Extensively covered here: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=417714
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      02-19-2011, 07:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
My dealer said this running in thing is no longer relevant as modern cars come already run in and told me to just drive it like normal. Think about demo cars, when we test them at the dealer do we keep the revs below a certain rpm. Anyway if I'm wrong I'm happy to be corrected.
Your dealer is wrong tell him I said so, well not me, but the CAR!

Look in your onboard manual under topic "break in" and it clearly tells new owners the deal. Dealer is probably trying to null and void your warranty in the future. Yes not following the break in procedures are grounds for BMW to do so, not that they will, but they could.

The factory testing (which varies depending on the day and car) is pre-registration. No one owns it yet. Your warranty start date and mileage is what the break in is for. As for demo cars, same thing, pre-registration, your dealer is a knob, sorry.

To repeat, first 1200 miles, not over 4500 rpm and not over 100. In my first 550 I followed it and it was tough on the autobahn to do so but its required by BMW and its important for the cars performance to break in.

I would not in this case be happy to be corrected.
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      02-19-2011, 07:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delvek View Post
Your dealer is wrong tell him I said so, well not me, but the CAR!

Look in your onboard manual under topic "break in" and it clearly tells new owners the deal. Dealer is probably trying to null and void your warranty in the future. Yes not following the break in procedures are grounds for BMW to do so, not that they will, but they could.

The factory testing (which varies depending on the day and car) is pre-registration. No one owns it yet. Your warranty start date and mileage is what the break in is for. As for demo cars, same thing, pre-registration, your dealer is a knob, sorry.

To repeat, first 1200 miles, not over 4500 rpm and not over 100. In my first 550 I followed it and it was tough on the autobahn to do so but its required by BMW and its important for the cars performance to break in.

I would not in this case be happy to be corrected.



Ok mate, point taken

I shall observe the break in period, I've now actually looked at the owners book as well.
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      02-19-2011, 07:55 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuneMan View Post
Do you also feel some hesitation and/or jerking when trying to accelerate from stop or low speeds?


No jerking mate
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      02-19-2011, 02:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
No jerking mate
hmmm... interesting.

i was gonna say that it's a common complaint that i've already logged with my bmw dealer and asked him for a fix as soon it's out.

But your issue sounds a bit different then the common hesitiation and jerking at low speeds... that many are facing as we can see in a few threads.
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      02-20-2011, 11:08 AM   #13
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No worries Indus, I had the same feeling when I collected the car.

But as soon as the car has done a few thousand miles and the sport mode is selected for both adaptive drive and the sport auto box...the pace and acceleration is stunning. Way faster than my e92 335d.

Overtaking is effortless and there's no lag whatsoever. Power delivery is instantaneous. In fact it is the closest thing to an M5.

By the way, this month, Top Gear Mag (UK) did a first drive with the 535d. They called it "one of the greatest engines in history".
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      02-20-2011, 12:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinF10 View Post
No worries Indus, I had the same feeling when I collected the car.

But as soon as the car has done a few thousand miles and the sport mode is selected for both adaptive drive and the sport auto box...the pace and acceleration is stunning. Way faster than my e92 335d.

Overtaking is effortless and there's no lag whatsoever. Power delivery is instantaneous. In fact it is the closest thing to an M5.

By the way, this month, Top Gear Mag (UK) did a first drive with the 535d. They called it "one of the greatest engines in history".
Interesting what you say about selecting sport mode in AD with the toggle switch and putting the box in sport mode with the gear selector. I thought the former automatically engaged the latter - do you notice a difference?
I'd try it right now, but the car's washed, dried and in the garage following a gloriously sunny weekend of blasting around Loch Ness and the Black Isle.
I now have over 4.5K miles on the car and I'm really opening it up - gearbox and throttle response are amazing, the latter due to the virtually instantaneous small turbo reaction before the larger one kicks in.
I've also been playing with sport+ a lot more and find the extra degree of wheel spin really exciting when accelerating through a corner from a standing start. However, I find myself lifting off (chickening out!) when the rear end steps out as I'm unsure as to how rapidly things could get completely out of hand. I'd appreciate any views from those who might have pushed it a bit further and discovered if there are any further protection measures.
I'm also convinced that there's a further degree of steering sharpness between sport and sport+, but it's very subjective and no doubt adrenaline influenced! Again, any other thoughts welcome.
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      02-20-2011, 01:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Interesting what you say about selecting sport mode in AD with the toggle switch and putting the box in sport mode with the gear selector. I thought the former automatically engaged the latter - do you notice a difference?
I'd try it right now, but the car's washed, dried and in the garage following a gloriously sunny weekend of blasting around Loch Ness and the Black Isle.
I now have over 4.5K miles on the car and I'm really opening it up - gearbox and throttle response are amazing, the latter due to the virtually instantaneous small turbo reaction before the larger one kicks in.
I've also been playing with sport+ a lot more and find the extra degree of wheel spin really exciting when accelerating through a corner from a standing start. However, I find myself lifting off (chickening out!) when the rear end steps out as I'm unsure as to how rapidly things could get completely out of hand. I'd appreciate any views from those who might have pushed it a bit further and discovered if there are any further protection measures.
I'm also convinced that there's a further degree of steering sharpness between sport and sport+, but it's very subjective and no doubt adrenaline influenced! Again, any other thoughts welcome.
I haven't noticed any extra steering stiffness in sport+, but i don't have Adaptive drive, those components may contribute to differing steering feel, but then is there an extra level of progression from sport to sport+ for the Adaptive drive susp. components (damper+ARB) when susp. is already specificied for 'sport'?

I drove for several months with sport steering everytime, in the past few days i kept it in normal, and find that i actually quite like it! Perhaps its all the turning at low speeds in the city.. the steering requires less force (but more distance).. but i do remember specifically 'normal' steering feels loose at high speeds in a straight line. So perhaps now my default will be 'normal' steering, only sport on highways, and sport+ (+transmission) when warmed up and driving sportily.

I find sliding out is extremely gradual and controlled, in rain im very confident in the control ..but it may mean nothing to you as our tire(+engine) specs could differ totally..
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      02-20-2011, 02:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
Hi guys

I've had the 535d MS a few days now but only a few miles.

I'm finding the gaerbox a little odd, I have the sport auto option btw.

If I'm in normal auto mode and want to overtake etc and I suddenly press the throttle all the way down but not past the 'click' (ie not true kickdown) there seems to be a really long delay before it drops down a gear.

Years ago I had an AMG Merc and if I did the same thing in that the reaction felt instantaneous, I would have though things would be even better now.

This sluggish response means that my confidence to commit to a maneuver is diminished.

Anybody else found this?

Thanks
Indus, have you selected "sport" mode in adaptive drive? There is a huge difference in responsiveness (compared to "normal").

I agree, throttle respons in "normal" is sluggish, the engine is not shifting enough gears down to hit the sweet spot for overtaking.
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      02-20-2011, 03:42 PM   #17
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Just get some miles on the engine and then get it to work.

I have driven a newish 530d and never found any real issues with the ability to get on the move, even in D. I also have driven the same combination in a 530d with a decent mileage (over 5k), and that was even better, plenty of shove, and the 'box was where you wanted it, D was fine for normal overtaking and the 'box responded as I'd expect, for rapid acceleration.

I can only imagine a well run-in 535d will be superb, even from modest revs.

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      02-21-2011, 05:47 AM   #18
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Thanks guys.

Just to clear things up I do not have adapative drive, I have sports auto box and IAS.

My drive across town over the weekend revealed the same problem, the auto box seems lethargic. In other words I give the throttle a quick dab and expect it to kick down a gear and it doesn't. Or I press the throttle all the way down just to (not actually into!) the kickdown point and there is what seems to be a huge delay before the car actually drops a gear. This just makes me feel really disconnected from the car.

This is with the sports box in normal mode, I had a quick play with the box in sports mode and this is much better but then it lets the car rev too high in every gear which makes for uncomfortable and uneconomical travel for driving in urban situations.

The only solution I can think of is when next I need a quick squirt of power to just give two taps to the left flappy paddle so that I'm quickly in the power zone.
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      02-21-2011, 06:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus View Post
Thanks guys.

Just to clear things up I do not have adapative drive, I have sports auto box and IAS.

My drive across town over the weekend revealed the same problem, the auto box seems lethargic. In other words I give the throttle a quick dab and expect it to kick down a gear and it doesn't. Or I press the throttle all the way down just to (not actually into!) the kickdown point and there is what seems to be a huge delay before the car actually drops a gear. This just makes me feel really disconnected from the car.

This is with the sports box in normal mode, I had a quick play with the box in sports mode and this is much better but then it lets the car rev too high in every gear which makes for uncomfortable and uneconomical travel for driving in urban situations.

The only solution I can think of is when next I need a quick squirt of power to just give two taps to the left flappy paddle so that I'm quickly in the power zone.
Going by your original post, I'm assuming the car's virtually new and that you have well under 1,200 miles on the clock and if that is the case, you really should not be using anywhere near full throttle until the car is properly run-in.
With 4,500 on my 535d I'm only now really opening it up and I couldn't wish for a more responsive drive train - it was well worth the wait.
I think you're expecting too much at this stage and if you're accelerating almost to the kick-down point, you're causing long term damage - just my opinion, but I think patience will pay in the end.
Of course, there's always the possibility that you may have a problem with the car, but I would suggest that you don't mention anything about your enthusiasm with the throttle to the dealer, until you're well past the manufacturer's clearly stated run-in recommendations. You could find yourself in a warranty battle.
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      02-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Interesting what you say about selecting sport mode in AD with the toggle switch and putting the box in sport mode with the gear selector. I thought the former automatically engaged the latter - do you notice a difference?
I think so. Because otherwise the gear selectors "sport mode" would only be useful to engage the paddles (when the car is also specced with AD).
I was under the impression that there is a difference.

But well, I might be wrong, can you give it a try? I'd appreciate it.
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      02-21-2011, 12:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinF10 View Post
I think so. Because otherwise the gear selectors "sport mode" would only be useful to engage the paddles (when the car is also specced with AD).
I was under the impression that there is a difference.

But well, I might be wrong, can you give it a try? I'd appreciate it.
As I understand it, selecting sport with gear selector affects the transmission alone by delaying upshifts, whereas sport mode on the toggle switch does the same plus altering the steering and throttle response and, on cars with AD/VDC, the active roll bars and dampers as well.
However, I'll certainly give it a try the next time I'm out for a decent run and let you know.
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      02-22-2011, 01:51 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
Going by your original post, I'm assuming the car's virtually new and that you have well under 1,200 miles on the clock and if that is the case, you really should not be using anywhere near full throttle until the car is properly run-in.
With 4,500 on my 535d I'm only now really opening it up and I couldn't wish for a more responsive drive train - it was well worth the wait.
I think you're expecting too much at this stage and if you're accelerating almost to the kick-down point, you're causing long term damage - just my opinion, but I think patience will pay in the end.
Of course, there's always the possibility that you may have a problem with the car, but I would suggest that you don't mention anything about your enthusiasm with the throttle to the dealer, until you're well past the manufacturer's clearly stated run-in recommendations. You could find yourself in a warranty battle.

Thanks John, I take your point completely however I can't understand why you have felt the need to be easy on the engine with 4500 miles on the clock!
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