[Rival]

Hello all,

i come asking for help, my mechanic and i have narrowed down the possible stock battery's between the 92AH and the 105AH

The car is my mothers, shes retired, drives very little & short distance. Ive read a good bit on this, i know she needs to drive 50 miles for it to charge 100%.

should i buy a tender and charge it once a week or new battery..? i live in chicago so winter here is real.

https://shop.bmw.ca/p/BMW__Alpina-B6...216924023.html

-Andrew

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Rival

Hello all,

i come asking for help, my mechanic and i have narrowed down the possible stock battery's between the 92AH and the 105AH

The car is my mothers, shes retired, drives very little & short distance. Ive read a good bit on this, i know she needs to drive 50 miles for it to charge 100%.

should i buy a tender and charge it once a week or new battery..? i live in chicago so winter here is real.

https://shop.bmw.ca/p/BMW__Alpina-B6...216924023.html

-Andrew

Yes and I'd opt for the 105ah battery. I did...

WOW!!!!! That's like twice the price it is here!

[Rival]

ive been reading about F10 battery charging issues all afternoon.

One post ive found intertesting

"It charges up to 80% using the alternator, the last 20% is charged using the regenerative breaking..if battery charge drops below 80% the alternator kicks in.. however BMW used a bigger battery and designed the car to fully function with 80% battery charge and thus even if you idle and drive short trips only the 80% would be more than sufficient to maintain a healthy battery and electric system."

Cant believe the battery is this big of an issue. Ive had 3 e90's, only put a new battery into the 06.


All the online links are dealer or BMW type sites, i just needed to get a PN for my mechanic. After he has a PN, hes GTG

[n3985]

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...528iX&mg=61#30

[snj1013]

You can get AGM batteries from just about any auto parts store with the same/similar capacities. For any, including exact OEM replacement, you will need to register the battery. The registration programming can be done yourself with a $20 cable and free software. Your independent shop should be able to handle this as well, but don't pay more than 30 minutes labor for this.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by snj1013

You can get AGM batteries from just about any auto parts store with the same/similar capacities. For any, including exact OEM replacement, you will need to register the battery. The registration programming can be done yourself with a $20 cable and free software. Your independent shop should be able to handle this as well, but don't pay more than 30 minutes labor for this.

This.

Registering is important and not a BMW scam. Coding is only required if you change type (between AGM and standard flooded) or capacity (e.g. 95Ah to 105Ah).

(and the same $20 cable does both)

I did both myself on my E90 (upgraded from flooded to AGM). Haven't had to DIY this job on my F10 yet due to factory extended warranty.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Rival

ive been reading about F10 battery charging issues all afternoon.

One post ive found intertesting

"It charges up to 80% using the alternator, the last 20% is charged using the regenerative breaking..if battery charge drops below 80% the alternator kicks in.. however BMW used a bigger battery and designed the car to fully function with 80% battery charge and thus even if you idle and drive short trips only the 80% would be more than sufficient to maintain a healthy battery and electric system."

Yes, the 70 - 80% SOC is the figure stated in BMW technical data. All part of intelligent alternator control (IGR). It is a reason why driving profile can have an impact on SOC, can drop below the 70 - 80%. Pays to give attention to how we harvest the most energy on the over-run. Lifting off the throttle completely, on the over-run/coasting, gives the alternator the maximum charging rate, adding to the SOC, hopefully towards 100%.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Rival

ive been reading about F10 battery charging issues all afternoon.

One post ive found intertesting

"It charges up to 80% using the alternator, the last 20% is charged using the regenerative breaking..if battery charge drops below 80% the alternator kicks in.. however BMW used a bigger battery and designed the car to fully function with 80% battery charge and thus even if you idle and drive short trips only the 80% would be more than sufficient to maintain a healthy battery and electric system."

Cant believe the battery is this big of an issue. Ive had 3 e90's, only put a new battery into the 06.


All the online links are dealer or BMW type sites, i just needed to get a PN for my mechanic. After he has a PN, hes GTG

There is no "regenerative braking".

When coded for an AGM battery, the vehicle systems will target a system voltage of 14.8VDC at all times to rapidly recharge the battery until it's SoC is >=80%. At that time the system voltage will be reduced to this high 13s VDC and only go to 14.8VDC when coasting (and the EfficientDynamics blue bar is illuminated). This is meant to reduce the charging system (alternator) effect on fuel economy.

It's mostly marketing, but it's important to understand how it works. There is absolutely no regenerative braking as it's defined in hybrid vehicles. It's just the alternator and the computers alter the system voltage to attempt to increase fuel economy. That's it.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Surly73

There is no "regenerative braking".

BMW do use the term "Brake Energy Regeneration" in the context of their Efficient Dynamics explanations.

BMW technical data uses the more appropriate wording, "Energy Recuperation", which we know is more accurate. We are 'recouping' what would be wasted energy on the over-run, the extra alternator load partly retarding the vehicle.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW do use the term "Brake Energy Regeneration" in the context of their Efficient Dynamics explanations.

BMW technical data uses the more appropriate wording, "Energy Recuperation", which we know is more accurate. We are 'recouping' what would be wasted energy on the over-run, the extra alternator load partly retarding the vehicle.

Marketing fluff.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Marketing fluff.

May be marketing influenced, but "every little helps" as they say.

BMW's comment, bold part edited by me.

As part of CO2 measures, BMW is introducing various technologies with the aim of reducing fuel consumption in all vehicles of the BMW Group. One of these measures is the partial recovery or recuperation of the kinetic energy used by the engine. Depending on the driving profile, the intelligent alternator control alone can reduce CO2 emission by up to 3 % and therefore save energy. For the customer this function has no influence whatsoever on the power output development of BMW vehicles.

[Rival]

just shocked to see this is such a big issues for F10's

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

May be marketing influenced, but "every little helps" as they say.

BMW's comment, bold part edited by me.

Oh no, I get that. I just cringe every time I see a new owner talking about "regenerative braking", thinking it's more than it really is. "Features" like this start first in the luxury brands, accompanied by appropriate marketing and stupid gauges with trademarked symbols and flashing blue bars. As tech trickles down, every car will probably end up doing it this way.

Originally Posted by Rival

just shocked to see this is such a big issues for F10's

What big issues? Buy appropriate batteries (not necessarily from the dealer), register replacements with the car, and if you chronically do short trips use a trickle charger from time to time.

Bottom line - the IBS systems watching over the battery and other electricals aren't a scam or conspiracy - don't try to defeat them.

The IBS systems were introduced in the 7 series in the early 2000s and have been a part of BMWs ever since. It's not just the F10s and it's not new. EfficientDynamics is newer than IBS, but still not new.

[EL Jeffe 5]

I live in Iowa I put my car on charge over night at least once a month if not every two weeks.\
I use my old motorcycle tender I bought in Wall Mart for $17-20 works just fine.

[Rival]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Oh no, I get that. I just cringe every time I see a new owner talking about "regenerative braking", thinking it's more than it really is. "Features" like this start first in the luxury brands, accompanied by appropriate marketing and stupid gauges with trademarked symbols and flashing blue bars. As tech trickles down, every car will probably end up doing it this way.



What big issues? Buy appropriate batteries (not necessarily from the dealer), register replacements with the car, and if you chronically do short trips use a trickle charger from time to time.

Bottom line - the IBS systems watching over the battery and other electricals aren't a scam or conspiracy - don't try to defeat them.

The IBS systems were introduced in the 7 series in the early 2000s and have been a part of BMWs ever since. It's not just the F10s and it's not new. EfficientDynamics is newer than IBS, but still not new.

Just interesting a car with a 57K MSRP needs to have its battery charged just because of shorter trips.

I know its not going to happen with a lexus, acura or infiniti.....

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Rival

Just interesting a car with a 57K MSRP needs to have its battery charged just because of shorter trips.

I know its not going to happen with a lexus, acura or infiniti.....

Meh.

No matter what car I've ever owned, or what price point it carries, the owner forums are full of "for a car that costs $xxxxxK blah blah blah should/shouldn't happen".

All cars have problems with short trips. They just might not all tell you. Nor do they all have systems that isolate malfunctioning circuit branches so you're able to start your car again. Those drivers just come out to a dead battery.

All cars that chronically short trip should be plugged in sometimes. It doesn't just apply to BMWs.

All batteries that aren't kept >80% charged will fail prematurely, regardless of who assembled the vehicle they're mounted in. I don't HAVE to plug mine in. I've never had my car not start because I drive short trips. But I know my battery will have a longer service life because I do.

[Rival]

I live 6.5 miles from work, my wife works 5.5 miles from home.

Sometimes we drive in together, id put my car in storage and wouldnt drive it for a month or even 2.

Never had an issue with any of my e90's, going back to early 2010. And i have worked here since 09. So we've done it on and off for years.

I never had one issue with only putting 35 miles on PER WK with any of i have had.

the only car i ever had to charge was the 95 z, was because it had a braille lightweight battery in it.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Rival

I live 6.5 miles from work, my wife works 5.5 miles from home.

Sometimes we drive in together, id put my car in storage and wouldnt drive it for a month or even 2.

Never had an issue with any of my e90's, going back to early 2010. And i have worked here since 09. So we've done it on and off for years.

I never had one issue with only putting 35 miles on PER WK with any of i have had.

Remember it isn't simply the driving profile, it is also the amount of electrical consumers we use during the short trips. A well optioned F10 has quite a high electrical demand, once woken up, even without driving. EPS is a high energy user, so lots of manoeuvring without much driving will also put higher demands on the battery, will be different than any previous car with HPAS.

If we don't/can't (due to our driving profile) put enough charge in, of course the battery will drop its SOC.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Rival

Never had an issue with any of my e90's, going back to early 2010. And i have worked here since 09. So we've done it on and off for years.

I never had "an issue" with my E39s or E90 either, but I still plugged them in every now and then, and they often charged for HOURS before the trickle charger indicated they were full. Sometimes close to 24 hours depending on how long since I plugged them in.

Before concluding there's an "F10" problem or a BMW problem, try it on a few other cars and see if they take any charge or if they're all sitting at 100%. Just because warning sirens aren't going off doesn't mean it wouldn't be best practice to do something like trickle charge occasionally.

How many people have "issues" with F10s? The "discharging while stopped" messages are a malfunction in the car, that's not a short trip issue. A "replace battery" message means you've worn it out. The only error messages related to this so called short trip issue would be "Charge Battery", and it's not like the forum is full of puzzled people wondering what "Charge Battery" is all about.... For what it's worth, depending on how it's optioned and whether pre or post LCI, an E90 can tell you to do that too as far as I know.

Going back to E39 and E46 days, prior to IBS, there were owners stranded sometimes. They would usually be chronic short trippers who then left the car in an airport parking lot or their garage for 3-4 weeks and came back to find it couldn't start. This is usually where IBS-equipped cars have already shown you warnings, or shut everything down so you could at least restart. Some also had malfunctioning aftermarket electronics that they didn't realize were draining their battery while parked - another place where IBS helps.

[Rival]

im not looking for explanations for the issue, its just an dumb move by BMW to start with a 70amp and now they are up to 92 or 105's.

none of the Japanese cars do this, I guess thats a plus on their side.

They have made cars forever, they have know how much juice a optioned 5 will use.

After 2011/2012, they should of bumped it up in the factories, but they wont, because a battery is a non warrantied item.

dollars, thats all it is. They know 90% of people will put up with it.

[Rival]

Originally Posted by Surly73

Before concluding there's an "F10" problem or a BMW problem, try it on a few other cars and see if they take any charge or if they're all sitting at 100%. Just because warning sirens aren't going off doesn't mean it wouldn't be best practice to do something like trickle charge occasionally.

My 95 z with a race battery only needed a tender in the winter, ive been threw this.

Again a 60k car shouldnt need a charger, end of story. for 60k, they should start with a big enough battery from day 1