[TT C6]

Yup, you guys are right. Ferrari must of got it wrong.
DSG's aren't where it's at.
AUTOs are the future.

[Alchem]

Originally Posted by mapezzul

Could not agree with you more! I bet you did not get to drive it yet with the sport auto option- includes the technically updated shifting mechanism like the current available option in the E60.

Hate to tell everyone that the 550i will not be getting the DCT. Especially in AWD form.

Building a DCT capable of handling the torque transfer is not cheap and something BMW will not be doing. The new sport autos shift as fast and can handle torque better.

There will be some more tricks in the sport autos that do everything the DCT can do.

Until you get to drive the new 8 speeds w/ sport auto I think a lot of you DCT fan boys should relax. There is a change coming and it is for the better.

Do not be surprised to see Porsche/VW lose the PDK in the future along with BMW....

Uhm..no. What's going to happen is the DSG technology is going to be improved to handle the increased torque. The new M5 has DSG.

[footie]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Footie-
With all due respect, please don't tell us that an automatic can compete with dual clutch transmission. That's ridiculous.
Anyone who has driven a DCT will tell you that it is the ONLY choice.

From someone who has driven DCT transmission over the last 6 years off and on I probably have more knowledge of them than most and definitely a lot more knowledge than you.

I am telling you that chances are the M5 won't get DCT from a number of reason but the main one it that the DCT can't cope with the torque figures the M5 will be putting out (it currently only copes with 550Nm comfortably and 600Nm at a stretch).

Originally Posted by TT C6

Furthermore, please don't say what BMW will or won't due unless you have a reliable source.

[footie]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Yup, you guys are right. Ferrari must of got it wrong.
DSG's aren't where it's at.
AUTOs are the future.

Ferrari is a different breed of animal and isn't positioning itself as a sports/luxury saloon.

Also regarding the Auto being the future. If I told you the future you wouldn't believe me.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Alchem

Uhm..no. What's going to happen is the DSG technology is going to be improved to handle the increased torque. The new M5 has DSG.

Originally I would have been under the same opinion though after testing the new ZF8sp I can conclude that it's actually better than many here think and is remarkably similar in both feel and action to that of the DCT. Another thing about it is that it behaves impeccably, something that those familiar with the M-DCT will know isn't always the case.

[TT C6]

Footie-
You man have been driving a SMG (single) clutch auto trans for years,
but you have NOT been driving a DUAL clutch transmission (DSG) for years.
The technology is brand new to the consumer car market.
SMG was great on a race track, but horrible on the street.
DSG is the future, and will be in ALL cars in the near future.

The new M5 is definitely getting the M-DCT.
So, dual clutch transmissions ARE the BEST transmissions available.....and will only improve.

The bottom line is this:
If the 550xi doesn't get the BEST transmission available (DCT) I'll be buying a Audi S4/RS4 or Porsche Panamera instead.
Don't let us down BMW.

[footie]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Footie-
You man have been driving a SMG (single) clutch auto trans for years,
but you have NOT been driving a DUAL clutch transmission (DSG) for years.
The technology is brand new to the consumer car market.
SMG was great on a race track, but horrible on the street.
DSG is the future, and will be in ALL cars in the near future.

The new M5 is definitely getting the M-DCT.
So, dual clutch transmissions ARE the BEST transmissions available.....and will only improve.

The bottom line is this:
If the 550xi doesn't get the BEST transmission available (DCT) I'll be buying a Audi S4/RS4 or Porsche Panamera instead.
Don't let us down BMW.

Well there you go, the above comment proves just how little you know.

For a start the Audi TT3.2 was the first car to offer a DSG gearbox back in early 2003, I drove one of these quite a few times though didn't actually own one. My first DSG was a Mk5 GTI back in 2005 which the wife ran for 18 months and then changed to a manual GTI after that point. I just sold my E92 M3 M-DCT in August after running it for a year.

Trust me, I know more about DCT gearboxes than you think.

[TT C6]

Little I know?
You make me laugh.

I drove my cousin's A3 DSG as soon as Audi let HER order one. The A3 and TT are chick cars.
So, no shit, you weren't impressed.

Why don't you go drive the new MB SLS AMG, the Ferrari 458 Italia, or even the lowly GTR and get back to me about how good a DSG can be.

BMW's version of the dual clutch (DCT) in the E92 M3 is BMW's FIRST and ONLY attempt at a DSG transmission and it needs tweaking.
But, DSG is the future.

Anyone who argues the above obviously knows nothing.

[footie]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Little I know?
You make me laugh.

I drove my cousin's A3 DSG as soon as Audi let HER order one. The A3 and TT are chick cars.
So, no shit, you weren't impressed.

Why don't you go drive the new MB SLS AMG, the Ferrari 458 Italia, or even the lowly GTR and get back to me about how good a DSG can be.

BMW's version of the dual clutch (DCT) in the E92 M3 is BMW's FIRST and ONLY attempt at a DSG transmission and it needs tweaking.
But, DSG is the future.

Anyone who argues the above obviously knows nothing.

My bad, clearly I must bow to your infinite wisdom.

I'll get back to you when you have another couple of thousand posts done and become a little bit more worldly.

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by TT C6

Little I know?
You make me laugh.

I drove my cousin's A3 DSG as soon as Audi let HER order one. The A3 and TT are chick cars.
So, no shit, you weren't impressed.

Why don't you go drive the new MB SLS AMG, the Ferrari 458 Italia, or even the lowly GTR and get back to me about how good a DSG can be.

BMW's version of the dual clutch (DCT) in the E92 M3 is BMW's FIRST and ONLY attempt at a DSG transmission and it needs tweaking.
But, DSG is the future.

Anyone who argues the above obviously knows nothing.

wow... you must clearly know something more than both Footie and I (including all of our inside sources) know. I am glad you think DSG (as you keep calling it and that is Audi/VW terminology with a Borg Warner transmission) will be the future, and welcome you to keep thinking that. Since you know so much you must also know that the Porsche PDK and the BMW DCT are designed and produced by the same people but that is a different animal.

I have been told that the DCT will be short lived (actually I think I first wrote that in August- someone can check) by someone with first hand knowledge of the situation. The new ZF can do everything the DCT can- with less weight and handle all the torque. There is actually nothing the DCT (or DSG since we are apparently discussing VAG cars here) can do much better than the new ZF with the "Sport" guts can.

BMW actually was kind enough to foreshadow this for us.... The new 8 speed with paddles introduces everyone to the new "pull"/"pull" manner of gear selection which has only been in ///M cars.

In talking with the ///M engineers they also stated that a DCT has little benefit when compared to these new breed of autos, to shave a tenth of time (per lap) for an additional $10k (DCT to handle the torque) makes little sense.

BMW is not Ferrari. Most people that buy these cars never even use them at 75% of their capability. True enthusiasts also do not buy AWD 550s as a performance car, it is that simple.

I also will not participate in personal attacks and feel that someone with such a little post count (though a member for over 3 years) and that obviously has no idea of who has connections where, really should watch what they say to certain people because you never know who you may annoy and what info they may not tell the forum as a whole..... it has happened before.

Oh and TT6- you should also realize that some people here drive prototypes and may have had experience with things well before you, especially when the DSG was not introduced in the US until after the EU....
Think about 6 months to a year before hand and you will realize that maybe you are out of your league.

-M

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Alchem

Uhm..no. What's going to happen is the DSG technology is going to be improved to handle the increased torque. The new M5 has DSG.

Not in a BMW. Let alone a 550. They are still testing a few different options in the ///M5 (DCT is not winning b/c of cost).

Gerhard Wagner is the head of power-train technology for ZF...

He said that By 2013, with very few exceptions, we will have converted completely from six to eight gears.

But he does not see an increase beyond that number of gears in the coming years.
Eight-speed torque converter transmissions will remain the state of the art for the foreseeable future according to him.
He also states:
"In the future, we see the dual clutch continuing to be more for the sports segment and especially for rear-wheel drive"

Which is why the Z4 will retain it as an option as will the M3 until end of life...