[Fast Intentions]

I just purchased my first bmw, its a F10 535 2014, my question is how is it that BMW manages to change oil every 10,000 miles???? every car ive owned has had a max run time of 5000 on synthetic mobil1 =. i just dont get it how is it that the car only gets serviced once a year or 10k? makes no sense to me considering its turbo on top of that.

if you guys can help me understand this i would GREATLY appreciate it!

[raleedy]

BMW has been doing this for years. (And so have other manufacturers.) My 2001 5-series had 15K service intervals. Some people like to change their oil more often, but there's no evidence that does any good. Engines and used oil that have been analyzed show no harm from these long intervals, and while you will find people here complaining of any number of other other problems with their cars, you will not find actual cases of engine damage or other harm resulting from following BMW's service guidelines. The service interval on your car is "condition-based". The car will tell you if it needs new oil sooner than the interval the car now shows.

[martin mustang]

It is down to how clean the fuel you use, in other words the quality, a well-established independent mechanics told me this is more relevant for diesel engines, but will still be down to the quality of the fuel you getting. I am starting the half interval on my diesel due to no so top quality diesel we probably getting in gas stations here in Ireland!

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Fast Intentions

I just purchased my first bmw, its a F10 535 2014, my question is how is it that BMW manages to change oil every 10,000 miles???? every car ive owned has had a max run time of 5000 on synthetic mobil1 =. i just dont get it how is it that the car only gets serviced once a year or 10k? makes no sense to me considering its turbo on top of that.

if you guys can help me understand this i would GREATLY appreciate it!

So which car do you owned that recommended 5000 mile synthetic oil change?

[Super6]

I am kind of skeptical about this. If you plan on keeping your car a while, and to include the life of your turbo(s). You want to change the oil more frequently than that. That would the difference in you getting 250k and 300k miles on an engine. After all think about it, what car manufacturer doesn't want you to come back to repurchase, so why would they give you advice to further extend the life of your vehicle??

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Super6

I am kind of skeptical about this. If you plan on keeping your car a while, and to include the life of your turbo(s). You want to change the oil more frequently than that. That would the difference in you getting 250k and 300k miles on an engine. After all think about it, what car manufacturer doesn't want you to come back to repurchase, so why would they give you advice to further extend the life of your vehicle??

Or, to put it slightly differently: After you think about it, what car manufacturer doesn't want you to come back to repurchase, so why would they give you advice to damage your vehicle?

[bake]

I have owned BMW's since 2001 and have never went by the recommended service interval. I do my oil changes at 5k miles regardless of what they say. In other words I DIY every other oil change. If you plan on keeping your car longer than 3 or 4 years, this might be something you want to think about as well. Might not make a difference at all, but at $60 for a DIY oil change, why chance it. It is cheap insurance.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by bake

I have owned BMW's since 2001 and have never went by the recommended service interval. I do my oil changes at 5k miles regardless of what they say. In other words I DIY every other oil change. If you plan on keeping your car longer than 3 or 4 years, this might be something you want to think about as well. Might not make a difference at all, but at $60 for a DIY oil change, why chance it. It is cheap insurance.

Superstition by the commenter's own admission; waste of money, time and resources. There is no documented harm in the BMW service intervals -- even the longer ones they have recently abandoned.

[Super6]

Originally Posted by bake

I have owned BMW's since 2001 and have never went by the recommended service interval. I do my oil changes at 5k miles regardless of what they say. In other words I DIY every other oil change. If you plan on keeping your car longer than 3 or 4 years, this might be something you want to think about as well. Might not make a difference at all, but at $60 for a DIY oil change, why chance it. It is cheap insurance.

I would have to agree, I do most of my own small maintenance. Its cheap, and although I do not keep cars long, I do drive my cars hard. So its insurance in the future.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Super6

I would have to agree, I do most of my own small maintenance. Its cheap, and although I do not keep cars long, I do drive my cars hard. So its insurance in the future.

Not to beat a dead horse (or dinosaur), but "insurance" would be something like an extended warranty. Frequent oil changes provide "insurance" to the same extent as, say, burning incense.

[remmib]

BMW actually reduced the oil change intervals from 15000 miles/24 months to 10000 miles/12 months on the 2014 models.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868294

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by remmib

BMW actually reduced the oil change intervals from 15000 miles/24 months to 10000 miles/12 months on the 2014 models.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868294

Yes, as I suggested above -- the interval the OP mentioned is the new one for the current model. What BMW did not do, though, is revise the service interval for cars in the field. I'm guessing the change was instigated by independent dealers, who want to see the cars and their customers a little more often. I've never seen the slightest suggestion that the older service intervals are harmful to the car in any particular way.

[bake]

This topic has been discussed on multiple BMW forums at great length over the last 10 years or so. I am not going to rehash any info that is already out there, but BMW is not necessarily interested in the longevity of your engine, their only concern is that it performs satisfactorily until the end of your warranty. If you trust BMW on this, I suppose you also buy into their theory that oil consumption of 1 quart per 750 miles is acceptable.....I had oil issues with a pre-owned E46 ZHP (M-Sport) sedan that I owned prior to my F10 and have personally dealt with BMW and their willingness to address some of these issues. With that said, I will continue to change my oil at 5k mile intervals.

[The X Men]

So if I change my oil every 1000 miles, can I get a million miles out of my engine
European have been going by these long oil change intervals for years with no ill effects.

[Fast Intentions]

75% of other companies recommend 3-5k

[armanm]

I just had my oil changed at 9k miles and it was still near good shape.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Super6

I am kind of skeptical about this. If you plan on keeping your car a while, and to include the life of your turbo(s). You want to change the oil more frequently than that. That would the difference in you getting 250k and 300k miles on an engine. After all think about it, what car manufacturer doesn't want you to come back to repurchase, so why would they give you advice to further extend the life of your vehicle??

200,000 miles on a car? No thank you

[Piers]

My E60 was every 20k, my 2014 F10 I believe is the same, but I have the service pack anyway, so if it is shorter, it is shorter, I am never going to keep my main cars any longer than 80k anyway, so blow changing it every 5k when it does'nt need it

/controversial

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Fast Intentions

75% of other companies recommend 3-5k

But they are not requiring the expensive European spec. long life synthetic oil. Lexus recently change their oil requirement from dino oil at 5K miles to synthetic at 10K miles. You should go to a Lexus forum and read the threads, the old timers are out in force determine to still change their at 5K miles.

[Diesel_Lover]

I talked to some guys locally that belong to this organization: http://www.bimrs.org/

They recommended to me that I cut BMW maintenance schedule in half.

My 335d has a recommended service of 10k. I change my oil every 5k.

They told me that they have seen a lot of problems with cars, outside of warranty, that use BMW recommended service times.

In the 80's when I drove 3-series cars, and paid for my own service. They recommended I change the oil every 3k.

Now, that they are paying for the service. They recommend I change the oil every 10K.


You could argue that the guys who belong to the above linked organization want to see you more often because they make more money, or you could argue that BMW doesn't car about your car after warranty...

I don't know who is correct, but I think I want to be on the safe side and change my oil more frequently, and it also makes a good sales pitch when trying to sell your car privately. I keep always keep all the service paper work, and show it to prospective buyers when they come to look at the car.

[Super6]

Originally Posted by Diesel_Lover

I talked to some guys locally that belong to this organization: http://www.bimrs.org/

They recommended to me that I cut BMW maintenance schedule in half.

My 335d has a recommended service of 10k. I change my oil every 5k.

They told me that they have seen a lot of problems with cars, outside of warranty, that use BMW recommended service times.

In the 80's when I drove 3-series cars, and paid for my own service. They recommended I change the oil every 3k.

Now, that they are paying for the service. They recommend I change the oil every 10K.


You could argue that the guys who belong to the above linked organization want to see you more often because they make more money, or you could argue that BMW doesn't car about your car after warranty...

I don't know who is correct, but I think I want to be on the safe side and change my oil more frequently, and it also makes a good sales pitch when trying to sell your car privately. I keep always keep all the service paper work, and show it to prospective buyers when they come to look at the car.

Originally Posted by bake

This topic has been discussed on multiple BMW forums at great length over the last 10 years or so. I am not going to rehash any info that is already out there, but BMW is not necessarily interested in the longevity of your engine, their only concern is that it performs satisfactorily until the end of your warranty. If you trust BMW on this, I suppose you also buy into their theory that oil consumption of 1 quart per 750 miles is acceptable.....I had oil issues with a pre-owned E46 ZHP (M-Sport) sedan that I owned prior to my F10 and have personally dealt with BMW and their willingness to address some of these issues. With that said, I will continue to change my oil at 5k mile intervals.

+1.......Also for those of us that buy our cars (instead of leasing) and sell them when they reach a certain mileage, its way easier telling a prospective buyer I changed my oil at 5k, than 10k or 15k. Especially all these cars having turbos, oil quality is the life of the turbo.

Personally, I would never buy a preowned vehicle from anyone that had oil changes at 10k and 15k I don't care what the service manual says.

[The X Men]

This is a quote from an European oil forum. I have read about this in a few other articles. New synthetic oil take a while to set in, changing your oil too often can cause more than good.

"The Problem
5000 km change intervals are harmful to your engine and our DI engines are even more vulnerable to the type of damage done by over servicing than PFI engines.

Why does the problem exist?
It's a cultural thing that arose in the US and was driven by marketing and profit making. The consequent myths and consumer expectations are now entrenched. The cultural gap is now so broad than in the US a car may have an 8000km OCI, while the same model, from the same production line, might have a 20,000 km OCI when sold in Europe where people aren't affected by the myths.

Why it's OK to follow the manufacturers service interval
All synthetic oils are capable of exceeding the manufacturers recommended OCI by at least 50% or more. It's incorrect to suggest the oil could break down or succumb to sludge any earlier.

People using oil analysis reports to justify over servicing aren't reading them correctly. None of the reports that I've seen on DISI engines have shown oil that has reached condemning limits in terms of insolubles and oxidation. As for the solubles, if they are excessive, you need to drive the car further, not change the oil.

The references to carbon contamination are also incorrect. People naturally assume that black oil is unhealthy, when the opposite is true. The colour of the oil is an indication of how well it's doing its job. The darker the better (up to a point not exceeding the manufacturers OCI).

If you had a problem with contamination (not that you do, but if you did) the solution is to change the oil filter, not the oil.

Why is it harmful to change the oil too frequently?

In a word; volatility. Oil volatility is at its greatest in the first 3000km after an oil change. After that the volatility reduces and the oil stabilises.

Volatility is particularly bad for a DI engine because all of the lost fractions exit via the PCV system. Much of it goes out through the rocker cover vent, into the intake, through the turbo compressor and intercooler, then puddles in the bottom of the inlet manifold where it combines with the stuff coming through the PCV valve to coat the inlet valves and combustion chambers in gunk.

That black soot you see in your exhaust pipes, don’t assume it’s all caused by rich mixture. Excessive oil changing will contribute more soot.

The presence of oil in the intake also lowers the octane rating of your fuel leading to detonation.

The NOACK volatility test quantifies the extent of oil evaporation. The test standard - ASTM D5800 - 08 Standard Test Method for Evaporation Loss of Lubricating Oils by the Noack Method – also hints at another kind of danger associated with frequent oil changes where it states “Procedure C, using the Selby-Noack apparatus, also permits collection of the volatile oil vapors for determination of their physical and chemical properties. Elemental analysis of the collected volatiles may be helpful in identifying components such as phosphorous, which has been linked to premature degradation of the emission system catalyst.”

A lot of phosphorous is lost in the initial boil-off phase of new oil and it’s likely to be harming oxygen sensors and cats.

Engine manufacturers understand the problem and it would be easy for them to identify the type of damage done by over servicing and potentially result in a warranty claim denial.

Summary
By changing your oil at 5000km, you are subjecting your engine to oil that is almost always in the initial boil-off phase. It's contaminating and filling your engine with gunk. Contrary to popular and uninformed opinion, oil that is 10,000 km old is not likely to be harmful, and would certainly be less harmful than fresh oil.

I've never changed my oil more frequently than the specified 10,000 km OCI and my engine is in perfect condition after 106,000 km with no problems with contamination, gunk or soot.

When my warranty expires I would have no qualms running my oil out to 12,500 or even 15,000 km providing an oil analysis indicates that insolubles and oxidation are not excessive. And I'm sure my engine will thank me for it by remaining in peak uncontaminated condition."