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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum F10 pulling to the right...
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      09-25-2014, 10:16 AM   #661
HighlandPete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rysky007 View Post
...Took my car in Monday for scheduled oil change and inspection. Told the SA that since June my car has been pulling to the right a tiny bit at highway speeds, and authorized them to do an alignment.

After doing one, they come back to me telling me:

REPLACE THE RIGHT FRONT UPPER CONTROL ARM WITH NEGATIVE CAMBER CORRECTION (THE RIGHT FRONT CAMBER IS OUT-OF-SPEC)

And the kicker, they are telling me that its not covered by the cars warranty.... .
Hard to comment from a distance, but you mention "from June my car..." I assume from this statement the car was fine before that time. If so 'some event' is most likely involved.

The component they are referring to (commonly called a wishbone) is not necessarily bent, but comes in different dimensions to get the camber in specification. There is a standard dimension part, plus + & - value wishbones. The 'outsize' components give a +/- 30min value around the standard part number dimensions.

Hope that helps a bit on the technical side.

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      09-25-2014, 11:28 AM   #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Hard to comment from a distance, but you mention "from June my car..." I assume from this statement the car was fine before that time. If so 'some event' is most likely involved.

The component they are referring to (commonly called a wishbone) is not necessarily bent, but comes in different dimensions to get the camber in specification. There is a standard dimension part, plus + & - value wishbones. The 'outsize' components give a +/- 30min value around the standard part number dimensions.

Hope that helps a bit on the technical side.

HighlandPete

Just spoke to service manager, and he told me that the Control Arm is actually not bent but the technician thinks that putting on one that is a fraction shorter will straighten out the camber... which is a bit frustrating since we are not even 100% sure it will and I have to spend $600 for it to just find out.

Normally when a car is out of alignment what do they do to fix it?

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      09-25-2014, 11:45 AM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rysky007 View Post
Just spoke to service manager, and he told me that the Control Arm is actually not bent but the technician thinks that putting on one that is a fraction shorter will straighten out the camber... which is a bit frustrating since we are not even 100% sure it will and I have to spend $600 for it to just find out.

Normally when a car is out of alignment what do they do to fix it?
And there-in is your ammo for not having to pay for the part or repair work.

If the original part on the car is measured and deemed not bent, then the problem lies with BMW and their quality control, since a replacement part of a different dimension might bring the car in spec, thus the alignment fix should be covered under warranty.

Put another way, you should have the dealership measure the part coming off of your car, and compare it to a BRAND NEW part with the same part number. If the old part measures perfectly, then the pulling issue is not due to a faulty part, but rather, incorrect tolerances from the manufacturing of the car. This, in turn, is a manufacturing defect that should be covered under warranty.
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      09-25-2014, 05:37 PM   #664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rysky007 View Post
Normally when a car is out of alignment what do they do to fix it?
From how I see it with the F10/11, changing the part as they propose to do, is the way to get into camber tolerance.

Coming back to my first comment, I'm assuming your car tracked straight until June... if so something changed.

Your excess toe-in (on the limit) does give a clue the tracking may have got knocked out of tolerance. The camber going too positive, (whatever the cause) will not have helped that toe-in value.

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      09-25-2014, 10:52 PM   #665
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
From how I see it with the F10/11, changing the part as they propose to do, is the way to get into camber tolerance.

Coming back to my first comment, I'm assuming your car tracked straight until June... if so something changed.

Your excess toe-in (on the limit) does give a clue the tracking may have got knocked out of tolerance. The camber going too positive, (whatever the cause) will not have helped that toe-in value.

HighlandPete
Ok, now pretend I am a total moron and explain what you are trying to say
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      09-26-2014, 10:32 AM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickG_TechniqueTuning View Post
And there-in is your ammo for not having to pay for the part or repair work.

If the original part on the car is measured and deemed not bent, then the problem lies with BMW and their quality control, since a replacement part of a different dimension might bring the car in spec, thus the alignment fix should be covered under warranty.

Put another way, you should have the dealership measure the part coming off of your car, and compare it to a BRAND NEW part with the same part number. If the old part measures perfectly, then the pulling issue is not due to a faulty part, but rather, incorrect tolerances from the manufacturing of the car. This, in turn, is a manufacturing defect that should be covered under warranty.
Where can I find out what the length should be of that part?

My dealer told me that if they order the part and I choose not to put it on the car, I will be charged a restocking fee.

Its what you get when you are the only BMW dealer in town I guess hu..
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      09-26-2014, 11:40 AM   #667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rysky007 View Post
Where can I find out what the length should be of that part?

My dealer told me that if they order the part and I choose not to put it on the car, I will be charged a restocking fee.

Its what you get when you are the only BMW dealer in town I guess hu..
So you're charged a restocking fee, big deal. That's a small price to pay considering the other repair costs involved. And if you end up proving the dealership wrong, they may waive the restocking fee for you.
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      09-26-2014, 12:03 PM   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rysky007 View Post
Ok, now pretend I am a total moron and explain what you are trying to say
Using the F01/F10 type suspension illustration attached: 'A' is the pivot axis for the top control arm (wishbone), there is no adjustment as such in the mounting bolts. 'B' is the top position of the wheel carrier, controlled by the wishbone dimension. This sets the camber position. From your alignment figures this 'position' needs to be corrected inwards to get back in camber tolerance. The inserted photo shows the ball joint position on the replacement (negative dimensioned) wishbone. It is set back into the wishbone, you can even see it marked with a '-' identification.

I've marked 'C' at the track rod end. Imagine moving the top of the carrier, position 'B' inwards or ourwards, while postion 'C' stays where it is, along with the bottom mounts as a fixed pivot. Therefore toe-in increases as you move 'B' outwards. Thus why I'm suggesting we are seeing a higher toe-in reading on your first alignment sheet. Harmonises with how the camber is out of spec' as a positive camber.

The above comment is assuming the bottom suspension arms (wishbone and tension strut) are in spec', have not moved, bent or damaged in some way.



BTW, you won't be able to directly compare dimensions of the existing component and the 'correcting' replacement, they will be different by design. Even comparing side by side and seeing differences, the only way you will know the camber setting, is by fitting the new part and having an alignment reading. It is dimensioned to give a -30min change.

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      12-15-2014, 12:13 PM   #669
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Any uppdates ? is is the pull to right fixable ?
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      01-12-2015, 11:33 AM   #670
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My SA said that BMW intentionally has the car pull a little to the right to ensure that drivers are paying attention and not falling asleep at the wheel. He said it was intentional design.
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      01-12-2015, 12:12 PM   #671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhu View Post
My SA said that BMW intentionally has the car pull a little to the right to ensure that drivers are paying attention and not falling asleep at the wheel. He said it was intentional design.
the words "Shit" and "bull" come to mind.

That doesn't sound right to me.
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      01-12-2015, 12:42 PM   #672
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muahahahhahahahahahahahah I would email bmw corporate customer care and see what they think of that response. I also heard that every few minutes the car starts to wildly accelerate to make sure your paying attention too
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      01-12-2015, 06:46 PM   #673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhu View Post
My SA said that BMW intentionally has the car pull a little to the right to ensure that drivers are paying attention and not falling asleep at the wheel. He said it was intentional design.
There is a Service Bulletin to address this issue. I don't have my repair records handy, but it is a software update called "Straight Ahead Conversion" or similar. I had my 2011 528i updated 3 years ago and this issue is under control.
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      06-07-2015, 03:33 PM   #674
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Have any of you guys noticed any difference between models with the Msport suspension and those without the Msport with regards to the pulling to the right issue?
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      06-07-2015, 04:16 PM   #675
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Originally Posted by thealbert View Post
Have any of you guys noticed any difference between models with the Msport suspension and those without the Msport with regards to the pulling to the right issue?
I've driven several models in the UK with different suspensions and none have pulled at all.

Is your car pulling, or simply drifting on road camber?

One thing to check, steering wheel position when running straight. Is it exactly central? If not, the steering angle sensor (SAS) function is compromised, can't position the steering with the same precision as when it is perfectly central. Errors with SAS positioning is known to affect steering pull.

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      06-07-2015, 04:30 PM   #676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I've driven several models in the UK with different suspensions and none have pulled at all.

Is your car pulling, or simply drifting on road camber?

One thing to check, steering wheel position when running straight. Is it exactly central? If not, the steering angle sensor (SAS) function is compromised, can't position the steering with the same precision as when it is perfectly central. Errors with SAS positioning is known to affect steering pull.

HighlandPete
I don't have any long straight motorways in my town so it's honestly difficult to tell. There are times the car pulls to the right and there are times it pulls to the left, so I'm more included to believe it's being affected by road camber at this point in time. This must be the drifting you were mentioning. Though there are times where I notice a sudden pull to the right, even when my steering is straight, but this again could be attributed to bumpy roads or the camber of the road?

I did get my car second hand and the previous owner did mention the it pulled to the right during his out of town trip. I did not notice this too much during my test drive but after a few days of owning the car, I did notice the drifting that I mentioned in the paragraph above. I have since had the car aligned and haven't noticed anything significant, thought the drifting is still there. In comparison, my 1999 Audi A4 drifts like crazy and my 2014 Mercedes S550 is straight as an arrow. Perhaps it's a characteristic of the car?
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      06-08-2015, 11:56 AM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhu View Post
My SA said that BMW intentionally has the car pull a little to the right to ensure that drivers are paying attention and not falling asleep at the wheel. He said it was intentional design.
I know that this is an old thread but what tires are you running?

I had the OEM tires giving me tire pull to the right. I no longer use these tires but am using Michelin Pilot Super Sport. This fixed the tire pull to the right. I also had my DME reprogrammed and that fixed the vague center feel.
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      06-08-2015, 01:42 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by purplecow View Post
I know that this is an old thread but what tires are you running?

I had the OEM tires giving me tire pull to the right. I no longer use these tires but am using Michelin Pilot Super Sport. This fixed the tire pull to the right. I also had my DME reprogrammed and that fixed the vague center feel.
Was an alignment done on your car when you swapped to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires?

What size rims are on your car and what kind of suspension does your car have?

Thanks!
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      06-08-2015, 05:37 PM   #679
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I have had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with BMW North America since I bought my new 2015 550 in December.

It has been pulling hard to the right since it was delivered.

It has been in the shop 6 times now and numerous parts were ordered and installed. The car still steers to the right today.

BMW NA claims it is absolutely perfect and there is not a problem. They closed their claim. I re-opened it. I am waiting for their rep to come to our dealership.

This is unacceptable for an $80,000 vehicle. BMW NA has been absolutely horrible to work with. If they decide there is not a problem, they just close their file. This DOES NOT fly with me. I have owned 6 new BMW's over the years.

I have to say, my 550 has been the absolute worst vehicle I have owned. And dealing with BMW has made my experience even worse.

This has been going on for nearly 7 months. I have been paying for an $80,000 vehicle which drives like a 10 year old Honda.

I have owned 3 Range Rovers with significantly fewer mechanical issues and much better service from Land Rover.
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      06-09-2015, 12:14 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thealbert View Post
Was an alignment done on your car when you swapped to the Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires?

What size rims are on your car and what kind of suspension does your car have?

Thanks!
Yes. Alignment was done. One side of the front camber was off spec like the previous poster above. My front toe was off a little but not by much.

I'm running factory 19".

Factory Run Flats are crap.
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      06-09-2015, 12:17 PM   #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT LAW View Post
I have had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with BMW North America since I bought my new 2015 550 in December.

It has been pulling hard to the right since it was delivered.

It has been in the shop 6 times now and numerous parts were ordered and installed. The car still steers to the right today.

BMW NA claims it is absolutely perfect and there is not a problem. They closed their claim. I re-opened it. I am waiting for their rep to come to our dealership.

This is unacceptable for an $80,000 vehicle. BMW NA has been absolutely horrible to work with. If they decide there is not a problem, they just close their file. This DOES NOT fly with me. I have owned 6 new BMW's over the years.

I have to say, my 550 has been the absolute worst vehicle I have owned. And dealing with BMW has made my experience even worse.

This has been going on for nearly 7 months. I have been paying for an $80,000 vehicle which drives like a 10 year old Honda.

I have owned 3 Range Rovers with significantly fewer mechanical issues and much better service from Land Rover.

I sorry to hear this. I've been there for the past few years. I saw the biggest improvement when I replaced the factory RF with Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

One thing you may want to try is to swap the right and the left side to see if this creates a left side pull. But then again, the wheels will be rotating in the opposite direction so I'm not quite sure how the car will react.

But my guess is tire pull.
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      06-09-2015, 12:21 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AT LAW View Post
I have had the unfortunate pleasure of dealing with BMW North America since I bought my new 2015 550 in December.

It has been pulling hard to the right since it was delivered.

It has been in the shop 6 times now and numerous parts were ordered and installed. The car still steers to the right today.

BMW NA claims it is absolutely perfect and there is not a problem. They closed their claim. I re-opened it. I am waiting for their rep to come to our dealership.

This is unacceptable for an $80,000 vehicle. BMW NA has been absolutely horrible to work with. If they decide there is not a problem, they just close their file. This DOES NOT fly with me. I have owned 6 new BMW's over the years.

I have to say, my 550 has been the absolute worst vehicle I have owned. And dealing with BMW has made my experience even worse.

This has been going on for nearly 7 months. I have been paying for an $80,000 vehicle which drives like a 10 year old Honda.

I have owned 3 Range Rovers with significantly fewer mechanical issues and much better service from Land Rover.
Did the tech test drive and confirmed it does pull to the right? As long as they note it themselves, you got a legit case. If they keep closing the same problems 3 times without it being fixed then use the lemon law.
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