[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by yogi799

It's quite remarkable, actually, to find out so many honest opinions preferring LESS power. I do believe they are genuine (not subconsciously dictated by large cash savings). Is this basically the power vs torque debate?

I think they are genuine.

My budget was limited when I bought the car, and I was looking at 528's vs. the 535. Now, I am a torque junkie. I love the effortless power and having to not shift to move off. But part of me also likes to hear the engine wind up the RPM scale. Where I live, in the DC metro area, there is so little room to use the potential of the 535 that it's sad. I think I drive around all day hardly ever cracking 2,500 RPM because it's frustrating to do so then slam on the brakes to avoid hitting the cars stopped at the next stoplight.

The 528 feels decently fast, but it feels like you have to work harder at it. The car never sounds strained, it sounds pretty good actually, but you do have to rev it a little more. The 535 is more effortless....press and go.

All comes down to what you want and how you drive. I am sure there are people on a budget who don't mind hearing that straight six wind out and would rather spend the $$ on options instead of engine and fuel costs.

in the end, I ended up with a 535 but as I said...I'm a torque junkie.

[delvek]

I have driven all three models extensively on the autobahn for many miles in all sorts of road characteristics. Anyone saying that the differences are slight between the 528 and 535 have not truly driven these vehicles comparatively.

529 to 535 to 550 is like apples to oranges to bananas, nothing alike. If you do not share in this opinion I would suggest getting past reading the same tired reviews and/or around the corner demo's with some bloke sitting next to you.

[BobRBob]

Originally Posted by delvek

Anyone saying that the differences are slight between the 528 and 535 have not truly driven these vehicles comparatively.

Well, I didn't say there was no difference between the two cars. What I said was that I preferred the 528i to the 535i based on the 2 test drives. Never drove the 550 so I don't know about it. Would I take a 535i for the same price as the 528i? Of course. It's a higher value package. But, to me, the extra power isn't worth the extra money because I really couldn't feel much difference in acceleration and handling was the same. 7 seconds to 60 mph is plenty fast for a 4 door sedan. Getting there in 6 seconds instead just doesn't matter to me that much. When I want power I drive my Corvette.

[delvek]

I understand.

I do want to point out, this focus on 0-60mph, when I look for performance I look for it starting at 60mph minimum. I want to know, scratch that, I want to FEEL the car pull me from 80mph to 140mph. In this regard, you can feel the difference between a 528 and 535.

[mrcamp]

All three models 528, 535, and 550 have their pros and cons, and they will suit folks with varying needs. For me, it was the 535 that suits me. For some reason, at least here in Chicago, and based on postings in the forums, it certainly seems like there are a whole lot more 535's than 528's out there.

[grimlock]

A 535 is a 528 with a turbo charger.. hopefully there is a difference.
The problem is, ppl who don't know much about cars, just assume a 535>528 inherently, without appreciating in this instance there is a very distinct and important difference between the two. For the 550/535 comparison one could use the same broad stroke, as the difference between the two are in both displacement/cylinders and turbos.
Like a 550i is much 'more' of a 535i, with 2 more cylinders (diff, configuration) and 2 turbos to the one (is it even 'larger'?)
With the new I4 turbo, the 'family' of engines will become logical once more.. the I6 NA will go off in to the sunset and away from the "more is always better" crowd.

[dpwr]

I can "afford" it too, but just because you can afford something doesn't mean you will feel comfortable getting it ( you said yourself "could probably stretch to a loaded M3 as well" which tells me you really can't truly afford it) ... if you have couple millions in your bank account then yes, you can REALLY afford it, but most people don't... most people on this board got many other payments to take care off such as houses, insurances, kids, wifes, etc, etc not just car payment... and bottom line is, if you ask 100 people if money is no issue, 95 would pick 550 over 528

Originally Posted by akhter

Actually--I don't agree. I could afford a 550 and a 740 as well, and could probably stretch to a loaded M3 as well.

I also had a 335i and and 328i before that. When I moved to 335i from 328i, I found the 335i more frustrating to drive than the 328i in the city with stop and go traffic and barely any open road. In the track the 335i was more enjoyable (but more difficult to drive) as was the few times a month I got to a wide open country road with more than 5 sec for WOT.

I paid more than a 535i than my loaded 528i on order because I found the NA engine more enjoyable to drive. Doesn't mean you (and everyone else) should find it as well since you may live in a different city and your driving pattern may significantly differ.

Its similar to the 335i vs M3 arguments on e90post. In certain conditions the 335i is actually better than the M3 due to the low end torque, but on the track the M3 will smoke 335i everytime. so if you buy a daily driver with zero track time, the 335i may be a better car for you even if you can afford the M3.

[poncekim]

I always find it funny when people bring up the issue of affordability when comparing 528 to 535. Lets get real. a 5-10k difference on a 60k car isn't huge, especially on a 3 year lease.

Yes, for many, its a major consideration when taking into account budgets, income, etc. But when broken down by monthly payment on a lease, the people driving 535s shouldn't feel any sort of superiority over those driving 528s.

Now, I had a 2007 M5 and currently have a 2011 M3 Vert and I can "afford" any of the F10s. I test drove all three and can honestly say I prefer the 528 over the 535 for many of the same reasons the OP stated. I'm getting older and honestly don't need the extra speed for my family car - especially when I already have an M3 for "sporty" driving.

In the end, it's all about what you're looking for. I'm not a torque guy and hate turbo so I prefer the 528. I think the ones who think the 528 guys are justifying their purchase because they can't afford it are probably the same guys who feel superior because they drive a car that is 10k more.

[Bandini3]

Originally Posted by morrisond

I can't remember where I saw it, but I think the 528 has the same brakes as the 535, I drove the 528i with Sport pack and 18's.

In previous 5's BMW went to great lengths to make the NA 5's lighter including a lot more aluminum in the front end and suspension, lighter axles etc.., maybe they have done the same thing this time.

Or could the engine really save 250+ lbs?

The nice thing is the 528i is a perfect 50/50(3814 lbs total) weight distribution(vs 50.9/49.1 535 - 4090 lbs and 52.4/47.6 550 4376 lbs +576 lbs over a 528i), you wonder if the BMW engineers like the 528i better as well to optimize it so much, to make it so light and have the much vaunted perfect 50/50 BMW weight distribution?

=========
I can understand some of your enthusiasm for a normally-aspirated six, which is the icon of BMW engines. However, I would point out:
- the front brakes on the 528i (13.0 in diameter) are smaller than on 535i (13.7 in.)
- standard tire for 528i is 225/55-17, vs. more performance oriented 245/45-18 on 535i
- in Canada, Dynamic Handling is not even available as an option on the 528i (although it is in USA)

The above would suggest that the 528i is NOT viewed by BMW as the 'sporty' version of F10. It simply has reduced equipment levels to arrive at a lower price point.

The notion of a 'campaign' for NA engines flies in the face of reality. BMW is committed to turbo technology, as a means of achieving high power and torque while reducing fuel consumption and emissions. That is made absolutely clear by the transition of the M5 to turbo-V8 and M3 to turbo-I6. The direction is set.

If you are so enthusiastic about lightness and agility, perhaps you could forget XDrive and focus on a RWD 528i plus a set of winter tires. AWD is superfluous in Toronto ~98% of the time, despite being pushed by BMW, M-B and Audi in the Canadian market.

[yogi799]

Originally Posted by BobRBob

Well, I didn't say there was no difference between the two cars. What I said was that I preferred the 528i to the 535i based on the 2 test drives. Never drove the 550 so I don't know about it. Would I take a 535i for the same price as the 528i? Of course. It's a higher value package. But, to me, the extra power isn't worth the extra money because I really couldn't feel much difference in acceleration and handling was the same. 7 seconds to 60 mph is plenty fast for a 4 door sedan. Getting there in 6 seconds instead just doesn't matter to me that much. When I want power I drive my Corvette.

I've done my math and it turns out, at least here in Canada, it is a much better deal do get a 535 because it comes more loaded in standard configuration (comfort access to name one)! I've initially priced out a 528 and before I knew it, I have gotten to 60.5 (only two extra packages). Then I looked at 535 starting at 62.3 for a base package, so not much difference in price, and the only thing it is lacking compared to that 60.5k 528i option is a rear view camera and and automatic trunk!!! So, my decision became ridiculously easy. 2k more is forgivable, but 60hp, turbos and torque for a rear view camera and an auto trunk??? Give me a break! I have also made sure both models have parking assist beepers on front and rear bumpers so that's a fine consolation for missing out on the camera.

[AgsWin]

I think one main thing to point out here is that the OP test drove a 528i with the "Sport Auto". This is a HUGE difference. I drove a 528i with the standard auto and it was a dog, completely underwhelming and immediately dissapointed. I then test drove a 535i with sport auto and although the immediate power was there it felt like I was driving a large car, more like a cruiser, a 7 series or large Lexus.

Then today I got the chance to drive the 528i with "sport Auto" and put it in "sport" and "sport+" modes and OMG what a difference, it was actually fun to drive and I could hear the exhaust and I didnt feel like I was driving a large cruiser.

With the money I save, I can now get the M sport package on the 528i. The only downside (for me) is that exhaust being on one side, but again thats minor and can be modded at some point.

[pyramid]

Originally Posted by poncekim

I always find it funny when people bring up the issue of affordability when comparing 528 to 535. Lets get real. a 5-10k difference on a 60k car isn't huge, especially on a 3 year lease.

Yes, for many, its a major consideration when taking into account budgets, income, etc. But when broken down by monthly payment on a lease, the people driving 535s shouldn't feel any sort of superiority over those driving 528s.

Now, I had a 2007 M5 and currently have a 2011 M3 Vert and I can "afford" any of the F10s. I test drove all three and can honestly say I prefer the 528 over the 535 for many of the same reasons the OP stated. I'm getting older and honestly don't need the extra speed for my family car - especially when I already have an M3 for "sporty" driving.

In the end, it's all about what you're looking for. I'm not a torque guy and hate turbo so I prefer the 528. I think the ones who think the 528 guys are justifying their purchase because they can't afford it are probably the same guys who feel superior because they drive a car that is 10k more.

Very well said, no fanboys influenced

[yogi799]

Originally Posted by AgsWin

With the money I save, I can now get the M sport package on the 528i. The only downside (for me) is that exhaust being on one side, but again thats minor and can be modded at some point.

And those horrible 528i rims....

[BobRBob]

Ah, c'mon guys. Horrible rims? Wtf? The 328 wheels look fine to me.

[raleedy]

I faced a similar choice between a 328i and a 335i three years ago, but with an extra wrinkle. I wanted a stick. It was available in both models, but I felt that I would be constantly confronted, on every upshift and many downshifts, with turbo lag in the 335i. I felt that the 335i was better suited to an automatic than to a stick. I also like the linear power development of the normally aspirated engine. I might have enjoyed the extra power from time to time, but most of the time a little anticipation in driving makes up for almost any lack of power. If I'd wanted an automatic, I would have chosen the turbo, if only because it has a better transmission. But as it is I've been very happy with the 328i and anticipate keeping it for a while after BMW's best feature has been retired for good.

[AgsWin]

Originally Posted by yogi799

And those horrible 528i rims....

Wheels will be replaced regardless of which car I get. Even the 535 M Sport 19's are too small

[O.S.]

Your reasons are exactly why i like 535 better. And xdrive in mine has the proper steering not electronic.

I guess to each their own.

Vibrations on the steering wheel would bother the heck out of me.
I also rather prefer the power rather than a pretense of power.

But whatever rocks your boat. Just make sure you are not trying to justify your choice of 528 over 535

Originally Posted by morrisond

Today I drove a 528. I drove the 535 two weeks ago and really didn't like it as it was too isolated, felt like a Lexus, throttle tip in was mushy even in Sport and I didn't like the powerband of the engine which fell off after 5,000 rpm. In short it didn't feel like a classic BMW that relied on Revs and short gearing to provide performance.


Witihin 2 minutes I fell in love with the 528. It seems to have a little less sound insulation so you can actually hear the engine (they had to save 280 lbs somewhere), you feel a very nice subtle vibration through the wheel so you can actually tell it's turned on, and it just keeps pulling to redline, it doesn't sign off at 5,000 rpm, you get a reward for revving it and holding gears.

The shorter gearing was nice too as throttle response was immediate, it paired really nicely with the 8sp, shifts were instant in manual mode.

The steering was nicely weighted for normal driving and body roll was minimal (probably another benefit of it being 280 lbs lighter.

In short it felt like a bigger more comfortable 3 series vs. a downsized 7.

It felt like a real BMW, and more than enough performance for real roads in North America, you can use a lot more of the throttle than the 535 which to me makes it a lot more fun.

Price independant, I think I would choose the 528. Nice car.

I also had it confirmed that Canada at least will get the 528Xi early in the new year.

Does anyone know how they saved 280 lbs?

[BobRBob]

FWIW, I don't remember any vibration in the steering during my test drives, subtle or otherwise, and I was checking for steering feel because of all the comments on this forum and others regarding steering and road feel, pulling etc. Also, I didn't notice any throttle issues, hesitations, surging and the like (maybe those issues are 535i only ).

I guess I'll just have to wait and see...

[BobRBob]

Originally Posted by yogi799

I've done my math and it turns out, at least here in Canada, it is a much better deal do get a 535 because it comes more loaded in standard configuration (comfort access to name one)! I've initially priced out a 528 and before I knew it, I have gotten to 60.5 (only two extra packages). Then I looked at 535 starting at 62.3 for a base package, so not much difference in price, and the only thing it is lacking compared to that 60.5k 528i option is a rear view camera and and automatic trunk!!! So, my decision became ridiculously easy. 2k more is forgivable, but 60hp, turbos and torque for a rear view camera and an auto trunk??? Give me a break! I have also made sure both models have parking assist beepers on front and rear bumpers so that's a fine consolation for missing out on the camera.

My 528i includes Sport Package, Premium, Premium Sound, Nav and Custom seats. The MSRP is $63,400 including $9500 in options. To get the same options in the 535i you need the Sport and Executive packages which brings the price for the 535i to $69,700. Configured this way, the only thing extra on the 535i is the automatic trunk and of course the bigger engine. This is a $6300 difference. Not huge but significant and most people buy the 535Xi so that adds another $2600 or whatever. In any case, the larger engine costs about $6K no matter how you slice it. Well worth it if you need the power but you don't get it for $2k.

[SteVTEC]

I think I've posted in a couple of threads like this, and I too preferred the 528 over the 535. Loved the shorter gearing, crisper throttle response, better engine sound, and the 528 is no slouch. Didn't think the 535 was really 'all' that much faster.

My biggest complaint though was the complete lack of engine sound in the 535. Inline-6 engines sound great, why would you not want to hear it when you hammer it? Also it didn't seem all that well calibrated to the 8AT. It always wanted to shift whenever you touched the gas, but why? When you've got 300 lb-ft of torque available at pretty much any load RPM just go with whatever gear you're in. I thought the 8AT worked wonderfully with the 528, but not so much with the 535.

Test drove an E93/335i with the N55 and 6AT Step and liked it a lot better. You can actually hear the N55 in that vehicle now, top up or down, and it sounds pretty darned good. Also when you put your foot down a bit from an upper gear, it would simply leave it in the taller gear as it should and pulls you away with the torque rather than shifting. Overall I liked the N55/6AT powertrain combo and calibration in the E9x much better than the N55/8AT in the F10. I think BMW still has a bit of work to do on that one.

[bodonx]

Did you test drive the one with sport auto? Sport auto makes all the difference in term of responsiveness on both 528i and 535i.

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

I think I've posted in a couple of threads like this, and I too preferred the 528 over the 535. Loved the shorter gearing, crisper throttle response, better engine sound, and the 528 is no slouch. Didn't think the 535 was really 'all' that much faster.

My biggest complaint though was the complete lack of engine sound in the 535. Inline-6 engines sound great, why would you not want to hear it when you hammer it? Also it didn't seem all that well calibrated to the 8AT. It always wanted to shift whenever you touched the gas, but why? When you've got 300 lb-ft of torque available at pretty much any load RPM just go with whatever gear you're in. I thought the 8AT worked wonderfully with the 528, but not so much with the 535.

Test drove an E93/335i with the N55 and 6AT Step and liked it a lot better. You can actually hear the N55 in that vehicle now, top up or down, and it sounds pretty darned good. Also when you put your foot down a bit from an upper gear, it would simply leave it in the taller gear as it should and pulls you away with the torque rather than shifting. Overall I liked the N55/6AT powertrain combo and calibration in the E9x much better than the N55/8AT in the F10. I think BMW still has a bit of work to do on that one.

[SteVTEC]

Both had the standard auto. What difference would the sport auto make?