[Grover432]

I'm trying to determine what type of tire monitoring system we have in Canadian 2013 F10's.

If you are driving a Canadian 2013 F10, do you mind checking your valve stems to see if they are metal or rubber?

I'm told if they are rubber the car uses the ABS system to watch for changes in tire circumference change to determine if a tire is low. If the stem is metal, there is a TPMS sensor on the inside of the stem, transmitting pressure readings to the car's computer.

Thanks.

[jadnashuanh]

BMW uses TPMS, not the less exact, tire circumference logic based on the anti-lock sensors. With the stock run-flat tires, they wouldn't work, anyway - you need the actual sensor to warn you.

[DocOct]

Grover. I've had three recent model BMWs in the last five years. All three did not have TPMS sensors. I think in the US BMW has TPMS sensors. In Canada, I think BMW uses the system you mentioned. All of my tires are rubber valve stemmed btw.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by DocOct

Grover. I've had three recent model BMWs in the last five years. All three did not have TPMS sensors. I think in the US BMW has TPMS sensors. In Canada, I think BMW uses the system you mentioned. All of my tires are rubber valve stemmed btw.

Thanks Doc. That is what I suspected but it's a bit of a drive out to the dealership to check. Thanks for saving me a trip.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

BMW uses TPMS, not the less exact, tire circumference logic based on the anti-lock sensors. With the stock run-flat tires, they wouldn't work, anyway - you need the actual sensor to warn you.

As DocOc posted above, I think that is only for US cars.the owners manual is confusing though because it talks about Canadian cars having additional information available on the display (which could on,y come from a sensor).

[barcelona]

Doc Oct is correct. Rubber stems in Canada( non-TPMS), Metal (TPMS) in the US.
http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showt...highlight=tpms

Odd why BMW Canada offers tire sets with and without TPMS.

[bobblehead]

US mandates TPMS to be used/mounted inside the wheel. Old technology and lots of issues, esp. the sensors tend to last only about 2-3 yrs time before they have to be replaced.

Canada uses indirect flat tire monitor sensor which is built into the ABS braking system.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by bobblehead

US mandates TPMS to be used/mounted inside the wheel. Old technology and lots of issues, esp. the sensors tend to last only about 2-3 yrs time before they have to be replaced.

Canada uses indirect flat tire monitor sensor which is built into the ABS braking system.

Thanks. Dealer in Toronto confirmed you are correct. Saves me $228.00 at The Tire rack because I don't need the sensors.

PS Call back from my local dealer who confirms that no cars imported by BMW Canada have TPMS sensors installed in the wheels. The ABS system takes care of it.

[jadnashuanh]

Sorry about my misdirection. I did not think you'd be able to get enough resolution with the ABS sensor to determine the status with RFT. It's been used on cars with 'normal' tires for quite awhile.

FWIW, on the vehicles I've had with TPMS, I've never had to replace one, and they've lasted 6-8 years when I finally got rid of the car. I have to say, though, that this is the first BMW with them, but BMW doesn't build them, they buy them from someone else, that also sells them to others. Only thing may be the exact frequency or protocol, but that's probably a simple internal programming thing.

I'm guessing you don't have the car yet? It would be easier to just verify by looking if you had.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Sorry about my misdirection. I did not think you'd be able to get enough resolution with the ABS sensor to determine the status with RFT. It's been used on cars with 'normal' tires for quite awhile.

FWIW, on the vehicles I've had with TPMS, I've never had to replace one, and they've lasted 6-8 years when I finally got rid of the car. I have to say, though, that this is the first BMW with them, but BMW doesn't build them, they buy them from someone else, that also sells them to others. Only thing may be the exact frequency or protocol, but that's probably a simple internal programming thing.

I'm guessing you don't have the car yet? It would be easier to just verify by looking if you had.

Car is about 10 days away (inbound to my dealership from Toronto). There is no question in my mind that Canadian F10's don't have TPMS sensors inside the wheel or attached to the internal part of the valve stem. I spoke to the parts department at 2 different dealers and my dealer who was quoting on the winter set was emphatic in stating that all Canadian cars don't have the sensors, but do have a TPMS system that works off the ABS system.

I am confused about the owners manual which seems to state on page 102 that additional information available in Canada includes individual tire pressure readings. I'm not sure how the car accomplishes this and others have posted that they have the car and don't see that functionality.

I guess I'll figure it out when the car gets here.

[barcelona]

What is a tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS)?

Posted on September 16, 2013 by Kal Tire

2


What’s your tire’s worst enemy? Under-inflation.

If you’re like most drivers, you know how important it is to have properly inflated tires, but you probably don’t check your tire pressure regularly, and you might not even recognize the low tire pressure light that could save your life.

Tire pressure monitoring systems (TPMS) were designed to help prevent tire failure by alerting drivers when one or more of their tires are dangerously low.

Since 2007, all passenger cars and light trucks sold in the U.S. are required to have factory-installed TPMS. Unlike many countries, TPMS isn’t mandated in Canada, but an estimated 70 per cent of vehicles sold since 2007 are equipped with TPMS.

How TPMS works

TPMS uses a wheel-mounted sensor or the ABS system to detect tire pressure and then send a signal to your vehicle’s computer if low tire pressure is detected [/B]That’s when the TPMS warning symbol will light upon your dashboard.

There are also two types of TPMS warning symbols. The most common low tire pressure light looks like a treaded horseshoe with an exclamation mark inside. The other TPMS symbol is the frame of a vehicle which highlights the tire with the low pressure.

TPMS Symbol

What to do if you see your TPMS warning light

When your TPMS warning light comes on, this means that one or more of your tires may below recommended inflation pressure. Take caution and:

1. Find a safe place to pull out of traffic so you can stop to check your tires.

2. If your tires aren’t blowing out, check your tire pressure or have them checked by a professional tire technician, then fill them to your manufacturer’s recommended pressure level.

3. If necessary, have any damaged tires, as well as the TPMS system, serviced at your nearest tire service center. The TPMS light should turn off within several minutes after re-inflating the tires to their recommended pressure.

4. Make a habit of checking your tire pressure regularly and re-inflating so you’re never at even 5 per cent below placard level. You’ll have better fuel economy and handling with properly inflated tires.

TPMS at Kal Tire

At Kal Tire, your safety is our top priority. If your vehicle comes into our store with a safety device such as TPMS installed, we want to make sure it’s working when you leave.

When you stop in to have your summer or winter tires changed over, or if you buy new rims, our trained technicians will need to service your TPMS to ensure it is working.

Because we’re tire experts, we can also service your TPMS if the low tire pressure warning light illuminates. We’ll find the problem and inflate the tire or fix it, check all TPMS sensors, replace the valve components if necessary as well as reset and test your TPMS system so you know it’s going to continue keeping you safe.

Proper tire pressure saves lives, and it also saves energy, the environment and money. Learn more about the benefits of TPMS and maintaining proper tire pressure here: TPMS Facts and Tips for Drivers.

For more information about how TPMS is keeping roads safe in the U.S., visit www.TPMSmadesimple.com.


http://blog.kaltire.com/tag/tire-pre...toring-system/

[jadnashuanh]

RFT don't change their diameter all that much when there is zero pressure, thus my surprise that BMW uses the ABS to detect it. On those vehicles in the US with the in-tire sensor, it triggers with a certain pressure change, way before there's any visual indication, although I'm sure the computer is more observant than I and the rotation rate does change a little. I'm still surprised it can do it on a RFT reliably until it is quite a bit lower than ideal.

One thing I do not like about mine verses those in my last car, is that it only indicates a color - the old one showed the actual pressure, not the stoplight that BMW uses.

FWIW, I was out on our first really cold day, and the car, after driving a little out of the warmer garage, showed all four tires as low...so much for alerting to an incremental drop like in the other car...each tire was about 4 pounds lower than when initialized. Air pressure drops a fairly consistent amount as the pressure drops. Had I been driving faster/longer, they probably would have warmed up enough to turn the alert off. In this instance, the computer couldn't use differential rotation rates between tires, it would have had to remember it when the system was initialized.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

RFT don't change their diameter all that much when there is zero pressure, thus my surprise that BMW uses the ABS to detect it. On those vehicles in the US with the in-tire sensor, it triggers with a certain pressure change, way before there's any visual indication, although I'm sure the computer is more observant than I and the rotation rate does change a little. I'm still surprised it can do it on a RFT reliably until it is quite a bit lower than ideal.

One thing I do not like about mine verses those in my last car, is that it only indicates a color - the old one showed the actual pressure, not the stoplight that BMW uses.

FWIW, I was out on our first really cold day, and the car, after driving a little out of the warmer garage, showed all four tires as low...so much for alerting to an incremental drop like in the other car...each tire was about 4 pounds lower than when initialized. Air pressure drops a fairly consistent amount as the pressure drops. Had I been driving faster/longer, they probably would have warmed up enough to turn the alert off. In this instance, the computer couldn't use differential rotation rates between tires, it would have had to remember it when the system was initialized.

I'm not sure the Canadian system is better tha the US system or at all accurate. I check my tire pressures every couple of weeks and I think I'll rely on the system to alert me to a flat.

[jadnashuanh]

Originally Posted by Grover432

I'm not sure the Canadian system is better tha the US system or at all accurate. I check my tire pressures every couple of weeks and I think I'll rely on the system to alert me to a flat.

Everyone should...but many don't! I ended up with a cracked wheel, and the leak was slow, but way faster than a couple week sample would have detected, and the TPMS alerted me early enough so I didn't actually run it flat, and thus need to replace it.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Everyone should...but many don't! I ended up with a cracked wheel, and the leak was slow, but way faster than a couple week sample would have detected, and the TPMS alerted me early enough so I didn't actually run it flat, and thus need to replace it.

Hopefully mine will do the same. Maybe for fun, I can test it when I get my car. I'll drop one tire's pressure 2 psi at a time and go for a drive to see if the system lights up. If not, I'll drop it another 2 psi (etc.) to see how much air needs to come out before I get a warning.

I'm sure BMW has a working system in Canadian cars.

[Zaman]

My car has metal stems but they are not TPMS, they are FTM. I am sure as I coded my car to show pressure and temperature and it doesn't. So it is not TPMS.

[Empiremotorsports]

i honestly think our TPMS isnt accurate because it doesnt even indicate tire PSI pressure

[barcelona]

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...indicator.html


Tyre Defect Indicator (TDI).


The Tyre Defect Indicator (TDI) alerts you immediately if pressure in a tyre drops, enhancing safety and helping prevent further tyre damage. This electronic system lights a warning symbol in the instrument panel (supplemented by a warning system in some models) in the event of tyre damage.

If the pressure in a tyre drops, the tyre’s radius shrinks and, as a result, the wheel rotation speed rises. TDI uses sensors to monitor the rate at which the wheels rotate and the Anti-lock Brake System, ABS, compares the data for individual wheels.
This means that TDI recognises pressure loss when one wheel is rotating at a different speed to the others. An even loss of pressure in two or more wheels (natural diffusion) is not registered, so regular checkups are the best way of keeping your tyres in good condition. TDI needs to be initialised in order to function correctly.



... an even loss of two or more tires IS NOT Registered.... this can happen often... hence, good safety for those who check at least monthly... Grover is good ( 2 weeks)...

[Gilgorm]

My retired E60 had TPMS, but as stated all F10s have FTM (Flat Tire Monitor) instead that works using the ABS system.
Last winter I had a blowout. The FTM only came on after the tire was completely flat with 0 pressure. But as advertised, all the tires looked exactly the same. I checked all of the tires and the indicated tire from the FTM was the dead one. I filled it up to 40psi. The FTM went off with no initialization.
After the holidays I drove to my trusted tire shop. On the way the car was starting to squirm but the FTM was still off. After 20kms I arrived at the shop. As I pulled in the FTM popped on. The tire once again had 0 pressure. The shop was able to source the replacement tire and I was sent on my way.
Pros: I was able to drive approx. 50kms in total, carry five people and luggage, get to the shop without a tow.
Cons: The FTM only did what its name suggests; tell you the tire is flat. If I had had some prior indication the tire might have been saved. The flat tire was toast, with rubber coming off on the inside. The exterior looked perfect, except for the 3.5 in. spike through the middle of the tread.

When you get your car, check the on-board owners manual. Unlike the paper manual, it only talks about FTM with no mention of the TPMS. I suspect U.S cars show the opposite.
Enjoy your ride.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by Gilgorm

My retired E60 had TPMS, but as stated all F10s have FTM (Flat Tire Monitor) instead that works using the ABS system.
Last winter I had a blowout. The FTM only came on after the tire was completely flat with 0 pressure. But as advertised, all the tires looked exactly the same. I checked all of the tires and the indicated tire from the FTM was the dead one. I filled it up to 40psi. The FTM went off with no initialization.
After the holidays I drove to my trusted tire shop. On the way the car was starting to squirm but the FTM was still off. After 20kms I arrived at the shop. As I pulled in the FTM popped on. The tire once again had 0 pressure. The shop was able to source the replacement tire and I was sent on my way.
Pros: I was able to drive approx. 50kms in total, carry five people and luggage, get to the shop without a tow.
Cons: The FTM only did what its name suggests; tell you the tire is flat. If I had had some prior indication the tire might have been saved. The flat tire was toast, with rubber coming off on the inside. The exterior looked perfect, except for the 3.5 in. spike through the middle of the tread.

When you get your car, check the on-board owners manual. Unlike the paper manual, it only talks about FTM with no mention of the TPMS. I suspect U.S cars show the opposite.
Enjoy your ride.

Good advice to check the manual (and the tire pressures). I'm wondering if the Canadian cars can be "coded" to enable the US TPMS system if the monitors are installed in the wheels? I also wonder why the Canadian system is different than the US car's tire monitoring system?

[jadnashuanh]

I can see using the ABS on 'normal' tires, but think it is iffy on RFT - they just are too stiff to change all that much with loss of pressure.

The system on the US vehicles will detect an individual tire being low. The correct procedure to initialize them is to first, check and adjust all of the tires while cold. Then, tell the system to initialize - this stores the current pressure level, and it looks for a drop from there. So, depending on what tire and wheel, and your preferences, it is not just looking for a certain actual value, it is a difference from the init point, so it's important to get them right.

While they may be able to also report the actual pressure, the stock system does not display it.

[Gilgorm]

Originally Posted by Grover432

Good advice to check the manual (and the tire pressures). I'm wondering if the Canadian cars can be "coded" to enable the US TPMS system if the monitors are installed in the wheels? I also wonder why the Canadian system is different than the US car's tire monitoring system?

My understanding is that all U.S. cars require TPMS by law. Canada doesn't have the same requirement so the cheaper FTM is used.