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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Newbie 550i xdrive paddle vs no paddle question
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      12-02-2014, 09:12 PM   #1
wcl4
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Newbie 550i xdrive paddle vs no paddle question

Hi folks,
I am thinking about buying a 2011 M Sport 550i xdrive that's nicely optioned except it's lacking paddle shifters. Is the sport transmission with paddle shifters the same as DCT? How big of a deal is having the paddle shifters vs none for resale value? Is having the +/- on the shift knob similarly responsive as paddle shifters?

Thanks.
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      12-03-2014, 08:24 AM   #2
snj1013
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As far as I know, the transmission is the same. Some like the paddle shifters, some do not. Not that big of a deal, but the paddle shifters can not be added after the fact, unless you purchase a new steering wheel and code your car to recognize the shifters.
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      12-03-2014, 09:32 AM   #3
SonicEndeavor
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The transmission hardware is the same(no, it's not DCT) but the SAT software gives you quicker shifts plus it adds rev matching on downshifts as well as launch control(in 2014+ models).
Resale impact should be minor since SAT is a $500 option.
I haven't compared the responsiveness to the console shifter, but I assume it's sending identical commands to the transmission as the paddles, the differentiator being the aforementioned faster shifts and rev matching you get with the SAT.
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      12-03-2014, 10:16 AM   #4
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I have them on mine but never use them, tried them out a few times but then got bored of the novelty. This gearbox has been set up really well and switching the rocker switch or gearlever into sport mode results in a perfect shift pattern for spirited driving, with the car holding the revs nicely and shifting down quickly when you want it to
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      12-03-2014, 02:04 PM   #5
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Thanks. I just wondered if it was one of those must have options.
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      12-03-2014, 04:15 PM   #6
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It all depends on how much you like to manually shift. I use them quite often to slow the car a few mph instead of braking, and enjoy the rev matching feature heading into a turn - two quick taps on the left paddle and you're set up to rocket out of the corner.
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      12-04-2014, 07:26 AM   #7
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I'm a bit confused by people saying "rev matching." What automatic transmission doesn't rev match when it shifts?

My experience is that:
a) 8 gears is a lot - kind of confusing if you try to use the paddles for everyday driving
b) the transmission does a truly excellent job of picking its own gear
c) still, it's nice to have them. If you want a different gear, are getting ready to pass, etc, you barely have to lift your finger.
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      12-04-2014, 11:15 AM   #8
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Rev matching involves blipping the throttle to raise engine RPM's when you downshift to avoid the engine bogging down as it does when you downshift a normal automatic.
The SAT implementation is obviously not as flexible as doing manual rev matching with manual transmission, but it's a nice feature.
Agreed that 8 gears is a lot, but I rarely use the paddles to shift through more than 3 gears, then let it automatically switch out of manual mode.

Last edited by SonicEndeavor; 12-04-2014 at 11:21 AM..
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      12-04-2014, 08:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor View Post
Rev matching involves blipping the throttle to raise engine RPM's when you downshift to avoid the engine bogging down as it does when you downshift a normal automatic.
An engine never bogs down when you downshift - that's simply not possible. If you go down in gear, the engine must by necessity go up in revs. And the shift is complete, the engine speed must by necessity be "rev matched" to the wheel speed.

When you're driving stick, you (hopefully) rev match with the throttle so that you don't "rev match" with the clutch in a jerky, wear-inducing fashion.

I haven't driven many automatics, but I've never experienced one that had a jerk caused by a downshift. Since torque converters have a lot of play, they should bring the engine up to the correct speed smoothly.

In this case, either the SAT shifts so quickly that it needs to use the throttle for smooth downshifts (it *is* ridiculously fast, so maybe that's the case), or it's all a giant pile of marketing BS.

Last edited by douggreglas; 12-04-2014 at 08:12 PM..
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      12-04-2014, 08:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggreglas View Post
An engine never bogs down when you downshift - that's simply not possible. If you go down in gear, the engine must by necessity go up in revs.

When you're driving stick, you rev match with the throttle so that you don't "rev match" with the clutch (in a jerky, wear-inducing fashion).

I've never experienced an automatic that had a jerk caused by a downshift. Since a torque converter has a lot of play (when it isn't locked up), it should bring the engine up to speed smoothly.

Either the SAT shifts so quickly that it needs to use the throttle to rev match for smooth shifts (it *is* ridiculously fast, so maybe), or it's all a giant pile of marketing BS.
That's not correct. A rev matching auto blips the throttle before the downshift, not as a result of the downshift. BIG difference.
It reduces engine braking as well as creates less strain on the transmission.
Engine braking going into a turn is exactly what you don't want to do, rev-matching solves that problem.
If you think it's BS, I suggest you read a few of the many articles/reviews on rev-matching automatics pertaining to the various manufacturers that have implemented this functionality. I believe Nissan/Infiniti pioneered it, then Jaguar adopted it, then others followed.
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      12-04-2014, 10:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor View Post
That's not correct. A rev matching auto blips the throttle before the downshift, not as a result of the downshift. BIG difference.
It reduces engine braking as well as creates less strain on the transmission.
Engine braking going into a turn is exactly what you don't want to do, rev-matching solves that problem.
If you think it's BS, I suggest you read a few of the many articles/reviews on rev-matching automatics pertaining to the various manufacturers that have implemented this functionality. I believe Nissan/Infiniti pioneered it, then Jaguar adopted it, then others followed.


The feature makes a lot more sense when I realized that on a normal automatic transmission, you would have to be accelerating for it downshift, so engine rpm will climb during the shift due to your foot on the throttle. Not so if you hit a paddle to downshift.
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      12-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #12
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The SAT's main feature is the shift paddles. I do like my shift paddles but I hardly ever use it. I do use it for passing once in a while but mashing the gas with the car in sport mode yield faster results.

There's a few things to note about SAT:

1. You can use it even in Drive. You don't have to put it in manual.
2. It's fast, much faster than my normal shift with a manual. I'm not sure I can beat it unless I have a short shifter and concentrate on the shift. But I can't drive like that all the time.
3. Rev matching works.
4. In fully automatic mode, I'm not sure there's much difference between SAT and nonSAT in sport mode. At least the cars I test drove both shifted fast and I can't tell the difference from the seat. Maybe there's a difference of 20ms but that's not something most people can feel from the seat.

Why I would get it:

1. The leather wrapping is much better looking. The nonSAT shifter is plastic.
2. The paddle shifter does add aesthetically to the look.
3. It is useful in certain scenarios. For example, if you mash the gas then the car likes to hold the gear even after you let up. I upshift with the paddles so I don't have to drive at 4000rpm for the next few seconds. You can do it with shifter in manual too but it's faster with the paddles.


Why rev match is needed in manual mode.

Rev match works when the computer doesn't have to think of everything for you. If you mash the gas in full auto, the computer decides what gear you're in, how much fuel is injected in the engine and what rpm you should be at. Rev match is not necessary here since the computer determined everything matching it perfectly. In a way, it is rev matching but with everything. When you're in manual mode, the computer doesn't know what you're going to do. If you upshift or downshift, it is not by the gas pedal. Therefore, it only has a millisecond to activate rev match as soon as you pull the left or right pedal. Else, you get those undesired effects like when you're still a newbie at driving manuals.

Why rev match does not matter to most 5 series owner:

1. The average age for BMW buyers are closer to 60, and they tend to like full autos.
2. People who can afford it are mostly not enthusiasts.
3. The automatics work so well that you most likely won't be in manual.
4. 8 gears is a lot to do manual shifting so less reasons to be in manual.
5. With different modes, most people will find it's everything they need.

Why I have SAT? Aesthetics. A 550 without shift paddles and plastic shifter looked weird.
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