[R N M]

Has anyone driven one yet with the new 2013 Msport standard setup without DDC option?

BMW website has ZERO information

How does it compare and is the steering feel improved at all?

Thanks

[svc]

I'll be test driving one later today. I am planning on leasing the 535i with the M Sport package and trying to figure out the difference between the standard M Sport Suspension vs DDC vs Dynamic Handling Package (DDC + ARS + Active Drive whatever all that means!).

I'll update you with my driving impressions tonight.

[readthis13]

Originally Posted by R N M

Has anyone driven one yet with the new 2013 Msport standard setup without DDC option?

BMW website has ZERO information

How does it compare and is the steering feel improved at all?

Thanks

I have a 2013 550 w/ MSport & no DDC. Wish I had it. As such, I upgraded to Dinan suspension. Felt very soft w/o it on the one I drove.

[R N M]

readthis13 - From reading your prior posts it seems that you have a 2013 550Xi which doesn't come with M Sport Suspension even if you have the M Sport package.

M Sport Suspension is only included on RWD cars.

[R N M]

This is the response i received from BMW USA on facebook:


BMW USA
We recommend you consult your dealer. One difference we can point out between the standard and M Sport suspension is stiffer damping (front/rear) and a 10 mm lowering. These elements increase agility and improve aerodynamics. Hope that helps!

Too bad dealer is not very knowledgeable.

[svc]

I had the chance to test drive the car with M Sport suspension. In comfort mode, the suspension is not soft enough and the steering is not tight enough for my tastes. In sports mode, I felt the suspension and steering are not hard and tight enough!!

The CA told me that DDC will add Sport+ and Comfort+ modes which will take care of my complaints, but he was not at all knowledgeable about ARS and Adaptive drive, and they didn't have a car equipped with these options for me to test.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by svc

I had the chance to test drive the car with M Sport suspension. In comfort mode, the suspension is not soft enough and the steering is not tight enough for my tastes. In sports mode, I felt the suspension and steering are not hard and tight enough!!

The CA told me that DDC will add Sport+ and Comfort+ modes which will take care of my complaints, but he was not at all knowledgeable about ARS and Adaptive drive, and they didn't have a car equipped with these options for me to test.

Passive M-sport suspension will not make any changes to the suspension softness/hardness in any mode. There are no active suspension components.

If it changed in the test drive you had DDC fitted. Therefore not M-sport suspension.

HighlandPete

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by svc

I had the chance to test drive the car with M Sport suspension. In comfort mode, the suspension is not soft enough and the steering is not tight enough for my tastes. In sports mode, I felt the suspension and steering are not hard and tight enough!!

The CA told me that DDC will add Sport+ and Comfort+ modes which will take care of my complaints, but he was not at all knowledgeable about ARS and Adaptive drive, and they didn't have a car equipped with these options for me to test.

if the car did not have DDC than putting it in sport mode only adjusts the steering and transmission; does nothing to the suspension (it's non-adjustable).

[BimmerGuyFL]

I have the passive M-sport suspension on my 535i. I really do not notice any different in steering change from comfort to sport. I think it only changes the throttle and the transmission shift points.

[raleedy]

Come on, BMW, explain these things coherently, please! BMWUSA referring a technical inquiry to the dealer is pitiful. People just want to know what they're buying, what the choices are. It can't be that hard for the manufacturer to lay it out.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by raleedy

Come on, BMW, explain these things coherently, please! BMWUSA referring a technical inquiry to the dealer is pitiful. People just want to know what they're buying, what the choices are. It can't be that hard for the manufacturer to lay it out.

Product differences are pretty well explained in the brochures, but I agree the finer details within the modes could be better explained.

Personally I think some of the forums make it seem more complex than it is. A lot of comments contradict the brochures and the user manuals. Same as some sales folk don't even grasp the finer detail.

HighlandPete

[svc]

CORRECTION: The car I was driving in fact had the M Sport package with DDC. I didn't even bother to try and put it in S+ mode!

[raleedy]

I took a look at the U.S. brochure today (on-line download) for the 2013 5-series. Its description of packages and options is completely different to the current configurator and order guides. It looks as if it wasn't updated from 2011!

[Boulder Bill]

I'm more confused than when I started. This, from the BMWNA website:

Dynamic Damping Control.

Uneven roads, potholes, cobblestones or flawless tarmac – with Dynamic Damping Control there is now a chassis for every road and every driving style. The perfect damping setting is what engineers are in constant search for on test tracks—and with the BMW 5 Series Sedan’s Dynamic Damping Control, they can expect nothing short of maximum agility through any and all driving conditions. A control unit on each wheel evaluates movements four hundred times a second to adjust shock absorbers accordingly, taking you from the softest to firmest settings for exceptional ride comfort and fluid handling, despite speed or damaged and uneven roads.



Driving Dynamics Control.

How would you like total comfort on longer journeys? Driving Dynamics Control, that comes with Adaptive Drive, part of the SPORT package, gives you the ability to meet every passenger's needs in the BMW 5 Series Sedan. With the push of a button, increase the level of driving pleasure from COMFORT to NORMAL, NORMAL to SPORT and SPORT + in seconds. Almost immediately, the engine responds more spontaneously to the accelerator, releasing a high, revving roar, before quickly changing gear and tightening the steering and chassis. Current settings are clearly displayed below the speedometer, and in SPORT mode, the drive train and chassis settings can be quickly and individually configured using the iDrive Controller for more dynamic driving on sand, gravel, or deep and packed snow.



Adaptive Drive.

With the Active Roll Stabilization and Dynamic Damping Control of Adaptive Drive, glide through bends with ease and comfort. Adaptive Drive calculates lateral and longitudinal acceleration, and speed and steering angle, to ensure the BMW 5 Series Sedan is primed for elevated performance. In curves or sudden changes of direction, the use of Active Roll Stabilization (ARS) affects handling to minimize body roll and keep the vehicle level. By virtually eliminating swaying or tilting behavior, Dynamic Drive Control (DDC) also delivers unmatched agility, for exceptional comfort and unmatched driving pleasure.

M Sport Suspension and Dynamic Damper Control are mutually exclusive. With the M Suspension, you cannot have the latter. But do you still get the Driving Dynamics Control? And the Adaptive Drive is ONLY available with the Dynamic Handling Package, as near as I can tell.

I like to drive a car like this with a manual transmission in a spirited fashion frequently, but not always. So, those of you who have driven these options, what are your thoughts?

Bill

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Boulder Bill

I'm more confused than when I started.

....

M Sport Suspension and Dynamic Damper Control are mutually exclusive. With the M Suspension, you cannot have the latter. But do you still get the Driving Dynamics Control? And the Adaptive Drive is ONLY available with the Dynamic Handling Package, as near as I can tell.

Driving Dynamics Control was a standard feature on all F10 5-series. Changed its name to "Drive Performance Control", at least in the UK, since ECO-PRO features were added.

In the UK we can just add Dynamic Damper Control (Variable Damper Control over here) or Adaptive Drive (some models), but in the USA you have to buy a package, DHP as I read it.

HighlandPete

[raleedy]

And DHP is available on 535i and 550i but not 528i -- the only three models offered in the US at this time. On the 528i it is possible to get variable dampers but not active roll stabilization.

[HDEddie1]

A 10mm lower spring? That would be real news for the F10 enthusiast in the states. From all my previous research, the M Sport sold here has a slightly thicker sway bar (by 2mm) same as the now-discountinued "sport package" option on the F10 but the springs front and rear are no different than stock, non M Sport. Only in Europe was the F10 offered with lower height springs. If a lowered F10 is top on your priority list, then I'd suggest having the dealer parts guy look up the spring set for a 2013 and verify if it is any different than the 2011-2012 models. Probably not, and as many enthusiast have done, went aftermarket springs for lowering.
Regarding steering feel...I doubt if any model (except the M5) will have an appreciable difference in feel as BMW designed the F10 with a luxury ride not too different from the 7. BUT there is news that the F10 mid year refresh will include "improved" steering feel. When that will be in the states is unknown or how it will actually feel.

Not sure what kind of driver you are or what car you are comparing the F10 to in terms of "feel".
For me, my F10 does not come close (in terms of steering or ride "feel") as my long gone e39 with sport package (good old school rack and pinion steering with lowered springs and heftier sway bars).
But I've choose and accepted the F10 for what it is....a very nice luxury sedan with just a little (but not much) sport added in.
My 2 cents is the active roll stabilization with DDC is worth much more than just some improved steering feel BMW might offer down the line. Drive the F10 with ARS/DDC (in Sport + mode) back-to-back to a F10 without and you will notice a marked difference. You might even think the ARS/DDC car has more steering "feel" ....it really doesn't but it handles so much better you'll think it does.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Product differences are pretty well explained in the brochures, but I agree the finer details within the modes could be better explained.

Personally I think some of the forums make it seem more complex than it is. A lot of comments contradict the brochures and the user manuals. Same as some sales folk don't even grasp the finer detail.

HighlandPete

Show me where there is a description of the M Sport Suspension - its not in any brochure that I have seen and definitely not on BMW website!

I drive my current 528i MSport with DDC in SPORT MODE 100% of the time and it is still floaty for my liking.

I hope the 2013 M sport susp will be much stiffer....I will know soon enough.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by R N M

Show me where there is a description of the M Sport Suspension - its not in any brochure that I have seen and definitely not on BMW website!

I drive my current 528i MSport with DDC in SPORT MODE 100% of the time and it is still floaty for my liking.

I hope the 2013 M sport susp will be much stiffer....I will know soon enough.

I assume you are having the same option as we've been having since the launch of the M-sport models.

Option 704: M Sport suspension
Firmer suspension for a more sporty driving experience. Vehicle is lowered by 10mm.

That translates to 10mm lower, stiffer springs and ARBs, with firmer damping.

Over here in the UK the motoring journals have mixed opinion on the M-sport suspension, the enthusiast type comments "it isn't sporty enough". Other mags' say something like "skip it, as it is too firm and spoils the ride". Most agree the active suspension, Adaptive Drive, (DDC and ARS) is the better option.

I think you'd need to try it, to comare to your current car.

HighlandPete

[bm323]

Hi HighlandPete

Seems like the same questions, as in 2 years back? Have you test driven the F10 with M sport suspension, or one without DHP or M sport suspension?

[JamRWS6]

I had a chance yesterday to drive my sister's '13 535i MSport that did not have the DDC as a comparison to my '12 535 that does have the dynamic dampers. My opinion is that the base M Sport suspension firmness wise is in between the Comfort and Sport modes on a car w/ DDC. On the car w/ the DDC the Comfort mode is a bit softer (obviously Comfort + is even softer) but the Sport mode seems to be a touch stiffer. I drove the car over the same road I drive every day so I think it was a good comparison. The dynamic dampers in each of the modes feel like they react more quickly and handle bumps better. If I had a choice I would order the DDC. I haven't driven a car with the active roll bars so I can't comment on that.

Just my 2 cents.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bm323

Hi HighlandPete

Seems like the same questions, as in 2 years back? Have you test driven the F10 with M sport suspension, or one without DHP or M sport suspension?

After trying the standard offerings in a couple of F10 examples, (with different wheel sizes) and an F11, I was a bit disappointed with the way they coped with poor road surfaces. I tried an F10 with Adaptive Drive and that sorted all my issues. There were no M-sport suspension demo cars about at the time, so lost a bit of interest.

In fact my attention turned to the new 3-series, so waited to try an F30 and after a test drive, thought the suspension was pretty well sorted, but would want the Adaptive M-sport option to get a bit more damper control.

To cut a long story short, "five vs. three" and with some of the UK motor reviews suggesting the 5-series was a brilliant car, but really needed the suspension options, or if buying M-sport models delete the M-sport suspension if you were after the best ride quality, as M-sport was too firm. I knew passive M-sport wouldn't be for me anyway, if there was something better on offer. So never pushed to get into a demo model, even for comparison purposes.

My F11 535i has Adaptive Drive, I can drive poor roads in the mid setting and enjoy a pretty smooth ride and decent handling balance. With sport for the times I'm on better roads and after a bit of fun. For me, the ARS feature does the critical part of keeping the car pretty flat on cornering, without the need to have a firm damper setting.

HighlandPete