[Noggie]

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I have a 2013 535 xDrive. I had to order DHP because, as the OP said, the other option was no DHP and no 704 suspension, which is dreadful even to think about.

DHP is pretty cool, and I appreciate the extent of the technology required to make it work. However, I personally have no interest in anything other than Sport mode. I drive it that way 99% of the time or more. Therefore, I would rather have spent less on the 704 suspension and foregone DHP.

I mostly use comfort, in sport I find the transmission too agressive.
I see no need to be driving along at 45mph at 2500rpm, it's a diesel after all, so I put the gearbox in manual and do my own shifts, but that kind of counter the point of having an auomatic.
I know it can be configured, bit that also removes the enhanced throttle of the sports mode which I do like.

What I would like to have in sport is suspension and throttle settings, but not the transmission running those high revs. That could be reserved for sport+.

Dont know if anyone else feel the same way.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Noggie

IWhat I would like to have in sport is suspension and throttle settings, but not the transmission running those high revs. That could be reserved for sport+.

Dont know if anyone else feel the same way.

You are not alone. Would be good to have the option to select the functions individually and combine as we like.

I've read somewhere recently that BMW are moving to better option selection. Can't remember for what model range it was being discussed, so no reference to go back to.

Someone else may also recall reading about it...

HighlandPete

[helat]

Originally Posted by digitalnoah

The handling of a car is the most important feature to me. That's why I drive a BMW.

I recently researched and ordered a new F10 5 series and did extensive research on BMWusa.com, on review sites, here on these forums, and in person at the dealer, test driving multiple vehicles and configurations.

I have been particularly interested in the Dynamic Handling Package (DHP), as everything I had read stated that the F10 grew in size and weight, was based more on the 7-series platform, and suffered from body roll and diminished road feel/numb steering. But reading about a package was not enough to make a decision, especially when the DHP is a $3500 upgrade.

So I went to the dealer and test drove two F10 cars back to back. One with the DHP and one without.

I went into the first test drive expecting to only benefit from the dynamic damper adjustments I had read about: changing the personality of the car from soft to sporty with a flick of a switch. I toggled through the settings and felt a noticeable difference. The normal ride felt balanced, but the Sport+ ride felt tight, sharp, and with much more road feedback. Even though this was a refreshing experience, I decided I could live without this feature.

Then I went in the car without the DHP. The car felt like a completely different car. It felt big, heavy, and seriously affected by body roll. It was rocking all over the place; over bumps, in corners, on the highway. I simply could not wrap my head around how BMW went to market with a car that handled like a 1980s Buick. And as an owner of a E90 3 series and E60 5 series, I began to doubt if BMW as a company was starting to head in a terrible direction. (I'll leave that for another thread.)

Having read all the threads on DHP, and now having done my own research, I want to clarify a huge misconception here on the forums. DHP is not just about Dynamic Damper Control and being able to manually set the stiffness of the shock dampening. Yes it allows this, and yes this is a nice feature. But this is a feature that should only cost $1000, which it does when added to an F30 3 series. The DHP also features Adaptive Drive, which is truly remarkable technology. But, sadly it's a technology that is very poorly understood online.

Unlike Dynamic Damper Control, Adaptive Drive isn't about changing the car's personality. It's an always-on feature that is always there behind the scenes, counteracting physics to make a big, heavy car feel flat in corners and predictable no matter what the road throws at it. How does it do this? It adjusts the adaptive dampers, independently on all four corners, multiple times per second. And in addition to this, it also adjusts a dynamic set of sway bars that can become stiffer and softer automatically.

This is absolutely genius engineering. Sure you can put racing coil overs on the F10 and get M5 sway bars to tighten up the suspension to track-ready specs (you can read on this forum that hundreds of people are doing this as a "must-have" mod). But you end up stuck with a track-ready car that is unbelievably stiff at all times. Take it on a road trip and you'll be exhausted. Go over a speed bump, and you'll scrape your under carriage. With the DHP, you get dynamic sway bars that are constantly flexing and stiffening to ensure the car is square, flat in corners, and confident. Yet they are softer and smoother when the car is going over uneven pavement and bumps. I see it as a completely uncompromising experience: you get the ride-quality benefits of a softer luxury sedan and the handling benefits of a modified suspension. $3500 for that combination? Yes, please.

Why am I writing all of this? Because in the hundreds of forum posts and reviews that I read, I didn't read any of this information anywhere. (note, I have since found this group of 5 YouTube videos which describe the engineering behind Adaptive Drive, though in the context of the X5. And I found this video which shows the swaybars adjusting, but on an older E60 5 series). I'm hoping that writing this thread will help get the information out there so that more people realize the following:

• DHP is more than just dynamic dampers
• The DHP is worth every penny of its $3500 price tag
• The best suspension available is not the m-sport, but the DHP
• BMW as a company is still a pioneer in the world of superior handling cars
• You don't have to void your warranty and spend thousands of dollars on modifications to make your car F10 handle as it should

As a driver i want super comfy soft ride. Handling is not so important for me. So the question is:
Assuming that both of these BMW 535i cars have 17" NON-runflat tires which one would be softer in bad roads: the one with base suspension or the one with dynamic handling package?

[akaye7474]

Originally Posted by helat

As a driver i want super comfy soft ride. Handling is not so important for me. So the question is:
Assuming that both of these BMW 535i cars have 17" NON-runflat tires which one would be softer in bad roads: the one with base suspension or the one with dynamic handling package?

i believe DHP in max comfort mode is more cushy than regular suspension in max comfort mode.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by helat

As a driver i want super comfy soft ride. Handling is not so important for me. So the question is:
Assuming that both of these BMW 535i cars have 17" NON-runflat tires which one would be softer in bad roads: the one with base suspension or the one with dynamic handling package?

You'd need to drive both to decide, I think. But even if the DHP Comfort+ setting is somehow softer than the standard suspension, it probably wouldn't be by MUCH... and likely not worth $3,500 for you to simply always just put it in Comfort+ mode. DHP is really worth the price if you intend to use the range of flexibility/settings intended by it. Otherwise, just get the standard suspension... hell, you could even replace the full standard suspension with an even softer one for MUCH less than the extra $3,500 you'd spend on DHP.

So, my advice:

- If you want soft ALL the time, get the standard suspension. Keep it OR replace it with something else.

- If you want soft SOME of the time, and sporty SOME of the time, get DHP.

[digitalnoah]

On Tuesday of this week I took delivery of my new 535d with the DHP package. After driving it a few days, I have a couple of updates.

• Overall -I absolutely love the way this car handles. It feels tight, responsive, flat, predictable, and endlessly smooth. I'm used to driving an 2008 e60, and there is simply no comparison. That old model was permanently soft and comfortable, and this new model feels much more confident and stable. And the DHP truly solves all the complaints about the f10 being too big, too heavy, and plagued by too much body roll.
  
• On Dynamic Modes - I anticipated wanting to keep the car in Sport mode for the firmest dampening settings, but I've found that the standard Comfort mode is just about perfect for me. It is a great balance between sporty crispness and luxury comfort, which is exactly what I'd expect from a vehicle like this. With the 19" wheels and 40 series tires, the Sport mode feels a bit too firm and harsh for the back roads in my town where the roads are in bad shape (from last winter). I do like the Sport mode on a well paved back road, as it does tighten up the chassis noticeably.
  
• It Aint the Dynamic Dampers - No matter what dampening settings you dial in, the real hero of the DHP is the Adaptive Drive and Active Roll Stabilization. Even in the softest settings, this car stays impossibly flat and square in corners – the car is literally counteracting physics and it makes for an amazing driving experience.
  
• On Hitting Potholes - When hitting potholes and uneven pavement, my perception is that the DHP helps prevent that corner from deep diving, putting less of the car's weight into the pothole. I can't say whether or not there's actually less force and potential damage to the wheels/tires, but I can say that from the driver's seat, it certainly feels this way.
  
• On Comfort - When in the Comfort+ mode, this is the most comfortable, smooth riding car I've ever driven. Eco-Pro mode is also very comfortable, but it makes the steering noodle-soft, which I think is a step too far.

[mko9]

Originally Posted by digitalnoah

Then I went in the car without the DHP. The car felt like a completely different car. It felt big, heavy, and seriously affected by body roll. It was rocking all over the place; over bumps, in corners, on the highway. I simply could not wrap my head around how BMW went to market with a car that handled like a 1980s Buick. And as an owner of a E90 3 series and E60 5 series, I began to doubt if BMW as a company was starting to head in a terrible direction. (I'll leave that for another thread.)

Funny I should click on this thread today. It rained last night here in San Antonio, and there is some peculiar combination of dry climate, dust, a little rain, and whatever compound they use for the roads down here that makes it almost like driving on ice. There are a couple spots right near my office where I can light up the DSC on my e46 just easing away from a stop sign. As I was driving that stretch this morning in my 535i I was thinking it was like driving a 90s era Crown Vic - I had no feel for what the rear wheels were doing.

[4UKCATS]

Originally Posted by ezmaass

You'd need to drive both to decide, I think. But even if the DHP Comfort+ setting is somehow softer than the standard suspension, it probably wouldn't be by MUCH... and likely not worth $3,500 for you to simply always just put it in Comfort+ mode. DHP is really worth the price if you intend to use the range of flexibility/settings intended by it. Otherwise, just get the standard suspension... hell, you could even replace the full standard suspension with an even softer one for MUCH less than the extra $3,500 you'd spend on DHP.

So, my advice:

- If you want soft ALL the time, get the standard suspension. Keep it OR replace it with something else.

- If you want soft SOME of the time, and sporty SOME of the time, get DHP.

Why even buy a BMW if you want a marshmallow ride? Comfort and comfort + are embarrassingly cushy with DHP. Might as well be a Camry. I only drive in sport and sport +. Would have never gotten a 5 xdrive without DHP.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by 4UKCATS

Why even buy a BMW if you want a marshmallow ride? Comfort and comfort + are embarrassingly cushy with DHP. Might as well be a Camry. I only drive in sport and sport +. Would have never gotten a 5 xdrive without DHP.

Actually, I get Camry rental cars all the time, and their suspensions are tuned quite a bit firmer these days than the Comfort setting on my F10.

[Ben2k9]

Originally Posted by 4UKCATS

Why even buy a BMW if you want a marshmallow ride? Comfort and comfort + are embarrassingly cushy with DHP. Might as well be a Camry. I only drive in sport and sport +. Would have never gotten a 5 xdrive without DHP.

maybe long highway trips

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by 4UKCATS

Why even buy a BMW if you want a marshmallow ride? Comfort and comfort + are embarrassingly cushy with DHP. Might as well be a Camry. I only drive in sport and sport +. Would have never gotten a 5 xdrive without DHP.

Owning and driving a BMW is more than just having a firm (sometimes overly firm) ride.

Some of my local roads are just too badly surfaced to drive in sport suspension mode. Plus I carry passengers, who like a decent ride quality.

Best of all worlds to have a BMW and be able to set the suspension mode to driving mood and conditions.

HighlandPete

[ErnestHouse]

Originally Posted by digitalnoah

BMW as a company is still a pioneer in the world of superior handling cars

I have DHP and love it. It saves money by not having to own two cars.

But BMW isn't the only one building this kind of system. GM is usually mentioned as the pioneer when it put magna-ride on it's Vette back in the 70's. I understood it best when I saw the attached Land Rover visualization of how the computer controlled dynamic dampers extend the operating range in various dimensions in their Evoque as compared to their passive suspension.

[WilliCO]

One aspect of this discussion that hasn't come up yet is the cost to fix DHP down the road when it breaks. I realize most of us lease - self included at this point - but I have to believe that somebody is going to have some really bad days at the repair shop at about 85,000 miles.

I feel the same about PDK on a Porsche. As cool as it is, I might avoid it it I were going to push one down the road.

I had a 2004 Audi allroad, which had the adjustable air suspension. It was primitive compared to DHP - there was an actual airbag at each corner. They started breaking on me at 65,000 miles and each one was $1300 to fix.

[lv42day]

Maybe DHP will cost a fortune to fix, but that is why one has extended warranty. I have a 2012 550xi with DHP and is fully loaded, it took months to find up here in Canada. The main point is DHP gives you the option of comfort for rough roads and sports when required, to me it is the perfect balance, plus I have not had any problems with the car what so ever.........it's bloody amazing to drive. When I had a RS4, I thought nothing would come close for excitement, but this car with m sport, DHP, shifters, stereo, vented seats, comfort access..beats the RS4.......all I can say is if u are going to spend this kind of money, get what u really want and u will be happy....I hope.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

One aspect of this discussion that hasn't come up yet is the cost to fix DHP down the road when it breaks. I realize most of us lease - self included at this point - but I have to believe that somebody is going to have some really bad days at the repair shop at about 85,000 miles.

I feel the same about PDK on a Porsche. As cool as it is, I might avoid it it I were going to push one down the road.

I had a 2004 Audi allroad, which had the adjustable air suspension. It was primitive compared to DHP - there was an actual airbag at each corner. They started breaking on me at 65,000 miles and each one was $1300 to fix.

I've heard roughly $1,800 - $2k each, so a bit more expensive but not other-worldly. Like all technologies, the more mainstream it becomes, the cheaper it eventually becomes, too. If you're buying a car in this price range and can afford to splurge for a $3,500 DHP option, you need to also expect the costs that will accompany it as it ages. These cars, like other high end cars, are cheaper to own when new than used, which provides incentive to keep trading up while also hurting resale once the car passes a certain age.

[493263]

I test drove a lot of cars before picking my 550xi with DHP. Base suspension drives like a boat and steering is incredible devoid of any feel at all. I've also driven the M Sport suspension for the RWD vehicles and it is good. However, there's nothing comparable to the DHP.

The Cadillac V is better pushing to the limit and feel but everyday is not as pleasant as the 5. The Mercedes E series drives soft and somewhat sporty. But you push it and it's shaky. The Audi is a very balanced and almost as good as a 5 with DHP.

You get what you pay for. A 5 series with DHP is a lot of money. My car drives soft when I want it to and corners flat when I push it. There's some weird quirkiness with it especially when the low gear start but overall, it's a solid drivetrain.

The 5 series with DHP isn't the most comfortable ride but it's close. It isn't the most sporty ride but it's up there. It can't be tossed around like my 2014 Mazda3 2.5S hatchback but it'll hold onto every corner flat and in control. I don't think I've driven a better car under $100k that is a jack of all trades.

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by helat

As a driver i want super comfy soft ride. Handling is not so important for me. So the question is:
Assuming that both of these BMW 535i cars have 17" NON-runflat tires which one would be softer in bad roads: the one with base suspension or the one with dynamic handling package?

By a Lexus!

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by 493263

I test drove a lot of cars before picking my 550xi with DHP. Base suspension drives like a boat and steering is incredible devoid of any feel at all. I've also driven the M Sport suspension for the RWD vehicles and it is good. However, there's nothing comparable to the DHP.

The Cadillac V is better pushing to the limit and feel but everyday is not as pleasant as the 5. The Mercedes E series drives soft and somewhat sporty. But you push it and it's shaky. The Audi is a very balanced and almost as good as a 5 with DHP.

You get what you pay for. A 5 series with DHP is a lot of money. My car drives soft when I want it to and corners flat when I push it. There's some weird quirkiness with it especially when the low gear start but overall, it's a solid drivetrain.

The 5 series with DHP isn't the most comfortable ride but it's close. It isn't the most sporty ride but it's up there. It can't be tossed around like my 2014 Mazda3 2.5S hatchback but it'll hold onto every corner flat and in control. I don't think I've driven a better car under $100k that is a jack of all trades.

Spot on!

[493263]

Originally Posted by NewM3driver

By a Lexus!

Lexus drive much harder now.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by 493263

The 5 series with DHP isn't the most comfortable ride but it's close. It isn't the most sporty ride but it's up there. ...... jack of all trades.

Agree 100%.

Thought I feel that lots of people are a bit harsh on "normal" setting.
While I personally prefer "sport", I find that lots of time I'll just leave it in "normal" mode and still be quite happy with the ride. Not "amazing" but pretty good/fun to drive comparing to lots of others in the same class. (A6 handling/performance is very comparable to 535i with DHP in sport mode in my opinion)

DHP for me at least was deciding factor, and it truly does transform the car, but it's still quite enjoyable to drive in normal mode. While I was initially somewhat unimpressed with handling in normal mode, over time you learn to appreciate what it has to offer (perhaps I just got used to it, cannot tell for sure). I don't think these were design to handle as well as 3 or 4 series just due to sheer size and weight of the car. I would guess BMW didn't have quite the same type of buyer in mind for these either.

[WilliCO]

I think the DHP on the xDrive F10 might be under-employed. The suspension differences between Comfort and Sport, in that car, simply are not substantial. I can definitely tell which one I'm in, but it's not a difference I want to pay $3500 for.

My wife hated my sport suspension E60. My expectation with DHP was that, in Sport mode, it would be stiff enough to generate similar complaints from her, provoking me to run it in Comfort mode with her in the car. She's never said a word in a year. And I can see why; the car just isn't that tightly strung in any mode.

I think the Sport mode on the xDrive F10 suspension settings should be 15-20% stiffer than they are. As it is, the car is just fine in Sport mode all the time, meaning that I would have been better off saving the money with the 704.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

I think the DHP on the xDrive F10 might be under-employed. The suspension differences between Comfort and Sport, in that car, simply are not substantial. I can definitely tell which one I'm in, but it's not a difference I want to pay $3500 for.

My wife hated my sport suspension E60. My expectation with DHP was that, in Sport mode, it would be stiff enough to generate similar complaints from her, provoking me to run it in Comfort mode with her in the car. She's never said a word in a year. And I can see why; the car just isn't that tightly strung in any mode.

I think the Sport mode on the xDrive F10 suspension settings should be 15-20% stiffer than they are. As it is, the car is just fine in Sport mode all the time, meaning that I would have been better off saving the money with the 704.

Interesting comments. But does the car need to be so 'tightly strung', if you are refining the suspension with adaptive technology?

I guess you are not a driver who sees the finer characteristics of a continuously adaptive system as translating to a better system. I know some like the predictability of a passive system, constant stiffness, etc., I'm one who gets the "soft where possible, firm when required" approach, which is where, IMO, adaptive suspension scores highly. ARS changes the game for needing a continuously tight feeling suspension, roll control 'on demand' only, changes the feel completely.

HighlandPete