[robmarley]

was just thinking about this today... is there any reason we cannot use some kind of bin explorer program to read and modify the msd85 file used to program with inpa+ and then just reprogram the entire ecu with inpa+?

sorry if this is a stupid question, but I was under the impression that to reprogram the ecu you had to have the entire file so if we could figure out how to explore the file we already have and then modify it, we could just reprogram the ecu with inpa and bypass all ttheeencryption, checksum, etc issues.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by robmarley

was just thinking about this today... is there any reason we cannot use some kind of bin explorer program to read and modify the msd85 file used to program with inpa+ and then just reprogram the entire ecu with inpa+?

sorry if this is a stupid question, but I was under the impression that to reprogram the ecu you had to have the entire file so if we could figure out how to explore the file we already have and then modify it, we could just reprogram the ecu with inpa and bypass all ttheeencryption, checksum, etc issues.

i can read the DME, but not yet with OBD 2, its due to BMW encryption we cannot use OBD2.

[robmarley]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i can read the DME, but not yet with OBD 2, its due to BMW encryption we cannot use OBD2.

I know, I get that, but that's why I was wondering what I said above, bc we can program the dme via obd2 using inpa without a problem. So I'm thinking if we could figure out how to modify the original msd85 system file that is used with inpa to program the dme then we could just proceed to program the msd85 using the modified file.

it would be just like if BMW issued an update for our dme.

[NickG_TechniqueTuning]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i can read the DME, but not yet with OBD 2, its due to BMW encryption we cannot use OBD2.

I don't know why everybody keeps saying they can't read the MSD85 DME in the F10 via OBD2. I've read mine out 3 years ago, via both the CAN and ENET busses, without any issues.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by NickG_TechniqueTuning

I don't know why everybody keeps saying they can't read the MSD85 DME in the F10 via OBD2. I've read mine out 3 years ago, via both the CAN and ENET busses, without any issues.

ware you able to adjust parameters? BMW came out with an update that prevented MSD85 on F10 to be tuned via CAN or ENET.

[NickG_TechniqueTuning]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

ware you able to adjust parameters? BMW came out with an update that prevented MSD85 on F10 to be tuned via CAN or ENET.

I have not tried writing to the DME via OBD2 as I don't have the 1024bit key to do the RSA signature on the calibration. Your comment was on reading via OBD2, which is available and 'unlocked'.

BMW did not prevent the MSD85 in the F10 from being updated via CAN or ENET, otherwise, BMW themselves wouldn't be able to update the DME. But just like all other modem BMW ECU's, the files need to have the appropriate RSA signature so the DME accepts it and starts the car. And, like all other DMEs, this RSA check can be bypassed if the DME is reprogrammed on the bench via the processor's boot mode.

With that said, the MSD85 in the F10 is a rare beast in that the factory calibrations are compressed and flashed in this compressed format, and the DME uncompresses it before writing it to the flash. But again, this doesn't mean that updates are unable to be done. I've even inquired with BMW and verified that this particular DME can be updated with a J2534 pass-thru cable (which is CAN based, see https://www.bmwtis.com/).

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by NickG_TechniqueTuning

I have not tried writing to the DME via OBD2 as I don't have the 1024bit key to do the RSA signature on the calibration. Your comment was on reading via OBD2, which is available and 'unlocked'.

BMW did not prevent the MSD85 in the F10 from being updated via CAN or ENET, otherwise, BMW themselves wouldn't be able to update the DME. But just like all other modem BMW ECU's, the files need to have the appropriate RSA signature so the DME accepts it and starts the car. And, like all other DMEs, this RSA check can be bypassed if the DME is reprogrammed on the bench via the processor's boot mode.

With that said, the MSD85 in the F10 is a rare beast in that the factory calibrations are compressed and flashed in this compressed format, and the DME uncompresses it before writing it to the flash. But again, this doesn't mean that updates are unable to be done. I've even inquired with BMW and verified that this particular DME can be updated with a J2534 pass-thru cable (which is CAN based, see https://www.bmwtis.com/).

let me rephrase it, people that are not BMW them self cannot can't flash the car with out a bench.

[robmarley]

Originally Posted by NickG_TechniqueTuning

I have not tried writing to the DME via OBD2 as I don't have the 1024bit key to do the RSA signature on the calibration. Your comment was on reading via OBD2, which is available and 'unlocked'.

BMW did not prevent the MSD85 in the F10 from being updated via CAN or ENET, otherwise, BMW themselves wouldn't be able to update the DME. But just like all other modem BMW ECU's, the files need to have the appropriate RSA signature so the DME accepts it and starts the car. And, like all other DMEs, this RSA check can be bypassed if the DME is reprogrammed on the bench via the processor's boot mode.

With that said, the MSD85 in the F10 is a rare beast in that the factory calibrations are compressed and flashed in this compressed format, and the DME uncompresses it before writing it to the flash. But again, this doesn't mean that updates are unable to be done. I've even inquired with BMW and verified that this particular DME can be updated with a J2534 pass-thru cable (which is CAN based, see https://www.bmwtis.com/).

this is why I was inquiring about modifying the msd85 file used by INPA+ for programming the ecu - it already has the RSA signature so if we could decompress the file, modify the values and recompress it, then program the msd85 per usual with inpa, shouldn't that work?

or would decompressing to modify destroy the RSA key assigned to it?

[robmarley]

also an equally ignorant question, but why can't we just load the msd85.1 software to our dme and then tune directly from obd2?

[NickG_TechniqueTuning]

Originally Posted by robmarley

this is why I was inquiring about modifying the msd85 file used by INPA+ for programming the ecu - it already has the RSA signature so if we could decompress the file, modify the values and recompress it, then program the msd85 per usual with inpa, shouldn't that work?

or would decompressing to modify destroy the RSA key assigned to it?

The whole point of the RSA signature is to verify that the file came from the intended author (ie, BMW). Any change to the file, even 1 bit, invalidates the previous signature and makes the file a non-starter. If you don't have the private 1024-bit key to generate the correct signature, then you need to bypass the signature check, which may or may not be possible based on the ECU's structure and boot mode protection.