[JCFans01]

Hey folks,

Just took ownership of a CPO '13 535i xDrive coming from an '09 E60 535xi. You may be aware that the CPO warranty now is basically a 2-year extension of the new car warranty (covers the same things and without the $50 deductible/claim). Two things I noticed right off the bat:

1) The 6WA instrument panel I have is scuffed at the bottom, horizontally across along the lines of the extended display, making it look "dirty" and some of the cluster information annoying to read because it's obstructing it. My question is, can this be replaced under warranty or will this be a fight with the stealership? Otherwise, is this an easy fix by myself (cleaning by a solution)?

Unfortunately I didn't notice this during the test drive, which I should.

2) The car vibrates above the speed of 120km/h. I have read extensively about the F10 across multiple forums and found this to be a common issue. Stealership has said that the car has been aligned and road-force balanced, which clearly isn't. My question is: I should go back to them insisting them to do another Hunter road-force because this is the end-all, be-all, correct? If they did this properly then the car should not be vibrating. I have checked all tires and rims--no missing hub caps or bent rims.

Thanks for your help!

[Bbb34]

From personal experience I can tell you that this is a bit of a gray area.
Depends on dealerships, some are very strict and do consider CPO inspection very seriously, while for others, it's just a piece of paper and they won't be as "detail oriented" when performing CPO checks as new owners would like them to be. I figured they simply hope there is nothing wrong with the cars, or if there is, they just address it under CPO warranty.

If you just recently purchased this car, you have a chance of them "making it right" because they are rated by BMW and will ask you to fill out a survey that apparently matters a lot to them. Tell your salesperson you're not happy and would like to see these things addressed, that said, I think things like scratches (your fuse box) or alignment are not covered under CPO, as far as I know there is no check-box that says "have to re-align before CPO" or address any scratches to the interior.

BTW, your alignment might be perfectly fine, but you might have a bent rim or damaged tire, neither would be caught by CPO checks

Good luck.

[NewM3driver]

Starting off calling your local BMW dealership a "stealership" isn't getting off on the right foot. They do need to turn a profit so that they are there for you the next time you need them, and you really do need a dealer to work with. Some are better than others, so find a good one and get to know them.

Introduce yourself to the service manager. Perhaps spend 50 bucks and bring in lunch or pastries for the service department. Now the next time you are in there looking for them to help you with a problem you will be pleased to learn just how much lead way those guys have bending the rules with warranty issues.

Remember. Your dealership has three profit centers. New car sales. Used car sales. Service. Every time your car gets a warranty repair or scheduled maintenance BMW pays the dealership and they make a profit on that work.... so they WANT to work on your car. In fact, a good dealer will sell a car cheap because he knows that automatically means X number of dollars coming into his service department over the next 3 years.

Make friends, be nice, have a good attitude. You'll get further that way.

[JCFans01]

Thanks for the feedback. As per my message I have checked and I don't have any bent rims or missing hup caps. The tires are brand new and they still have those red lines brand new tires have. So I will have to message my SA and see what's up.

As for calling dealerships "stealerships", this has nothing to do with my relationships with them. In the end it's a business deal for the both of us. This is my third BMW with them so I do have a good relationship with them.

Any more feedback pertaining to the warranty for the scuffed instrument panel and vibration would be appreciated

[Grover432]

I wasn't aware that a CPO warranty is an extension of the original BMW bumper to bumper warranty and I don't think that is the case. Secondly, if a part was scuffed (the display) on this used car, how is that warranty any more than a scratch in the bumper?

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

Thanks for the feedback. As per my message I have checked and I don't have any bent rims or missing hup caps.

Bent rim isn't always easy to spot. Same as you, I had a bit of vibration picking my CPO and asked the dealer to check the tires, perform tire balancing if needed, re-align the car...etc... which they all did. After they have done it all, and vibration was still there, they switched them front to back and vibration moved from steering wheel into my seat. They investigated further and found one rim was slightly bent. It was easy and inexpensive fix for me, but I wouldn't have known it was bent, even though I checked. Guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't have to be fairly big/obvious damage for you to notice the vibration.

[JCFans01]

Originally Posted by Grover432

I wasn't aware that a CPO warranty is an extension of the original BMW bumper to bumper warranty and I don't think that is the case. Secondly, if a part was scuffed (the display) on this used car, how is that warranty any more than a scratch in the bumper?

Grover432, this is my first CPO car and hence why I asked. If this is considered "normal" for a CPO then I would look for a secondary solution. If that's the case, do you know how to get rid of scuffs on a plastic?

And the CPO warranty has changed as of 2011 (at least for Canada). Read below:

The Certified Series Protection Plan provides coverage
for an additional 2 years/80,000 km beyond the original
new car warranty of 4 years/80,000 km for a total of
6 years/160,000 km from the vehicle’s date of service.

For model year 2010 BMWs and older (2009, 2008,
etc.), the Protection Plan provides very comprehensive
coverage in the following areas: engine, transmission,
final drive, front and rear suspension, steering, brakes,
electrical, sensors, air conditioning, cooling, some
interior and exterior parts, and the fuel system. These
and most related items are covered; however, since
this is not a full factory extended warranty, there may
be some exclusions, and there is a $50 deductible
payable for each visit.

Beginning with our 2011 models and beyond (2012,
2013, etc.), we have increased the coverage to give
you even better value, as your protection plan is now
an extension of the factory new car warranty covering
all the same things as a new car, with no deductible.

[JCFans01]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Bent rim isn't always easy to spot. Same as you, I had a bit of vibration picking my CPO and asked the dealer to check the tires, perform tire balancing if needed, re-align the car...etc... which they all did. After they have done it all, and vibration was still there, they switched them front to back and vibration moved from steering wheel into my seat. They investigated further and found one rim was slightly bent. It was easy and inexpensive fix for me, but I wouldn't have known it was bent, even though I checked. Guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't have to be fairly big/obvious damage for you to notice the vibration.

Hi Bbb34, thanks for sharing your experience! I will go back to them and see what they say. Curious--was the fix considered under warranty or was this out of pocket? How long after pickup did you notice it?

Thanks.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

Hi Bbb34, thanks for sharing your experience! I will go back to them and see what they say. Curious--was the fix considered under warranty or was this out of pocket? How long after pickup did you notice it?

Thanks.

I paid out of pocket because I purchased the car from the dealer from a different city. Something I didn't catch on test drive, or first week or so of ownership, so it'd be unfair to blame it on the dealer that sold me the car. Possible I hit the pothole in the meantime, adjusted tire pressures and made it more obvious.... who knows....either way, I didn't feel it was worth my time (or fair) to ask the dealer who sold me the car to pay for this and really just wanted to get it done, so I paid.

$125 later, all good, you win some, you lose some

[JCFans01]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I paid out of pocket because I purchased the car from the dealer from a different city. Something I didn't catch on test drive, or first week or so of ownership, so it'd be unfair to blame it on the dealer that sold me the car. Possible I hit the pothole in the meantime, adjusted tire pressures and made it more obvious.... who knows....either way, I didn't feel it was worth my time (or fair) to ask the dealer who sold me the car to pay for this and really just wanted to get it done, so I paid.

$125 later, all good, you win some, you lose some

Good call. Might be a noob question, but you fixed the slightly bent wheel just by "unbending" them? I was under the impression that bent rims must be replaced, which clearly you didn't do for $125

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

Good call. Might be a noob question, but you fixed the slightly bent wheel just by "unbending" them? I was under the impression that bent rims must be replaced, which clearly you didn't do for $125

According to local dealer (especially true for cars with certain brands of runflats and 19" or larger rims - firm but thinner sidewall) it's something they are seeing "all the time" and use local shop specializing in this type of repair for this.

[Slickrick2]

The warranty starts from the in service date. Add your CPO to that and thats the amount of time you have left on the warranty. It's not an extra 5 or 7 years. My car has an in service date of 5/2014. I have an elite CPO warranty on mine. It sounds cool but all it means is I get 1 more year added and up to 75,000 miles to my warranty giving me back a 4 year warranty because the car is a newer model. I don't get 5 years physically because one year has already been used. It all goes by your in service date.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

Grover432, this is my first CPO car and hence why I asked. If this is considered "normal" for a CPO then I would look for a secondary solution. If that's the case, do you know how to get rid of scuffs on a plastic?

And the CPO warranty has changed as of 2011 (at least for Canada). Read below:

The Certified Series Protection Plan provides coverage
for an additional 2 years/80,000 km beyond the original
new car warranty of 4 years/80,000 km for a total of
6 years/160,000 km from the vehicle’s date of service.

For model year 2010 BMWs and older (2009, 2008,
etc.), the Protection Plan provides very comprehensive
coverage in the following areas: engine, transmission,
final drive, front and rear suspension, steering, brakes,
electrical, sensors, air conditioning, cooling, some
interior and exterior parts, and the fuel system. These
and most related items are covered; however, since
this is not a full factory extended warranty, there may
be some exclusions, and there is a $50 deductible
payable for each visit.

Beginning with our 2011 models and beyond (2012,
2013, etc.), we have increased the coverage to give
you even better value, as your protection plan is now
an extension of the factory new car warranty covering
all the same things as a new car, with no deductible.

Thanks for the info on the newer and improved CPO coverage. I think the car would have passed CPO with a cosmetic defect (scuff in the plastic) so I don't think you have a claim. The plastic scuffs very easily if you wipe it with a dry cloth or even a damp cloth with any grit in it. I don't know of any way to correct this other than replacement of the part. If it is bothering you that much and you will be replacing the part, you might try a plastic polish used for restoring convertible top plastic windows. They comes in a 3 step system and I've used the stuff to maintain the rear window in my 1976 TR6 for years. Looks perfect after treatment. I haven't used the stuff on the plastic instrument panel, but if you'd be replacing it otherwise ..... No harm in trying.

[The X Men]

I agree, I don't think the bumper to bumper warranty will cover a scuffed instrument panel or a bent rim, but if the OP bought the car recently, maybe the dealer will fix it under goodwill.

[Slickrick2]

Originally Posted by The X Men

I agree, I don't think the bumper to bumper warranty will cover a scuffed instrument panel or a bent rim, but if the OP bought the car recently, maybe the dealer will fix it under goodwill.

I agree, just have to be very personable and professional. Speak to the service manager, have a nice conversation with him about it not the SA.

[JCFans01]

Originally Posted by Slickrick2

The warranty starts from the in service date. Add your CPO to that and thats the amount of time you have left on the warranty. It's not an extra 5 or 7 years. My car has an in service date of 5/2014. I have an elite CPO warranty on mine. It sounds cool but all it means is I get 1 more year added and up to 75,000 miles to my warranty giving me back a 4 year warranty because the car is a newer model. I don't get 5 years physically because one year has already been used. It all goes by your in service date.

Hi Slickrick2, yes I'm aware of this. My warranty takes me to Q1 2019 or 160,000km.

[JCFans01]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. Here's some update.

I was able to clean the instrument cluster plastic so now it's looking new again. I have advised my SA about this so he doesn't have to take a look into it. I'm also thinking of retrofitting the 6WB but I'm still researching on this one, i.e. the level of difficulty since I'm not very mod-savvy.

My SA has booked a service appointment for next week to look into the vibration. I'm asking them to check for bent rims or tires issues (even though they're brand new) or to Hunter road-force it.

I'll provide updates or conclusions when I have some. Thanks again!

[NewM3driver]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback. Here's some update.

I was able to clean the instrument cluster plastic so now it's looking new again. I have advised my SA about this so he doesn't have to take a look into it. I'm also thinking of retrofitting the 6WB but I'm still researching on this one, i.e. the level of difficulty since I'm not very mod-savvy.

My SA has booked a service appointment for next week to look into the vibration. I'm asking them to check for bent rims or tires issues (even though they're brand new) or to Hunter road-force it.

I'll provide updates or conclusions when I have some. Thanks again!

Just a thought on the tires. You may get better results taking the car to a really good local tire shop (not suggesting town fair tire or anything like it). Those guys deal with tires/wheel issues all day every day, and you may get a better result.

In Westport CT we have a place called Fetzer tire. They are excellent and I would much prefer they handle my wheel/tire issues and needs rather than the dealer.

[JCFans01]

Thanks, NewM3driver!

Here's the other update I promised. Spoke to my SA and found out that the left front rotor is slightly bent and this is what's causing the vibration. He'll replace both front rotors under warranty. The car is staying overnight and I have a loaner.

[JCFans01]

Another update as the issue is not resolved and I find the dealership is not thorough in their work. I had specifically asked for the car to be road-force balanced and tested at highway speeds before being returned to me. Below are the attempts to eliminate the source of vibration:

ATTEMPT 1:
Replace both front brake rotors. Car was returned to me and vibration was still there. 2015 320i loaner was provided for $20 and $150 refundable pre-authorization.

ATTEMPT 2:
They found both front rims are ever slightly bent (not visible to human eye). Both rims were sent out for repair. Another 2015 320i loaner was provided free of charge. Car was returned to me after one week and vibration in the steering wheel is gone but body vibration still persisted. I found out the car was test-driven at speeds of 100km/h and under, where I speficically indicated that the vibrations are felt at speeds of 100-120km/h.

ATTEMPT 3:
My SA wanted his senior technician to test drive the car with me. When he came out he specifically remembered my car as he worked on it and test drove it. He mentioned he told my SA that steering wheel vibration is gone but there is body vibration. He was surprised the SA released the car back to me.

Another 2015 320i loaner is provided free of charge and my case is now escalated and handled by the Assistant Service Manager and they found that there are issues with the tire belts, which are brand-new, and they replaced two tires. They said vibration is gone.

I'm due to pick up the car today so we'll see what happens. I will update you guys after. Hope all these possible scenarios can help you troubleshoot if you're dealing with vibrations.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by JCFans01

.... I find the dealership is not thorough in their work. I had specifically asked for the car to be road-force balanced and tested at highway speeds before being returned to me. Below are the attempts to eliminate the source of vibration:

I was quite surprised when they told you that disks would cause the vibration. Bent rim and issues with tires sound like a more reasonable explanation to me. Not saying it's impossible but warped disks would more likely vibrate under breaking, not at certain speeds on highway.

Unfortunately I'm not surprised at dealership not being detailed enough, seems way too common these days, and all it takes is a bit of attention when listening to the customer explaining the issue and passing that info to the mechanics. Seems most places are too big these days and customer info on issues/symptoms is getting lost along the way.

[493263]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

I was quite surprised when they told you that disks would cause the vibration. Bent rim and issues with tires sound like a more reasonable explanation to me. Not saying it's impossible but warped disks would more likely vibrate under breaking, not at certain speeds on highway.

Warped disks are usually not warped physically, especially quality OEM ones. They are usually hard deposits stuck on there that forms little variations on the surface instead of just a flat surface.

It can cause vibrations depending on how bad it is. You'll definitely feel it when braking. But it spins just like the wheel does when you drive. So when it's warped and off balanced, it will cause vibrations. Of course, higher speed will exponentially increase the problem.

Those high performance brakes where the brake pads are pretty much touching the rotors all the time to heat up the pads will make the problem even worse.