[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Well, let's just agree to disagree. I've driven my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on twisty roads like Hwy 17, Hwy 9, and Skyline Dr. in NorCal, and it handled very well. I haven't felt the roll you're talking about, or any issues with the suspension. There's no deficiency at public road speeds. It's a great balance between sport and comfort, and it's great not to have to mess with settings. I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, so I'm very familiar with good handling.

I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation, or toward the next car...

I think you might've missed the point we, or at least I was trying to make. For the most part I agree with you, except for your last statement on DHP.

With base suspension, you would for sure feel some body roll in the same car (especially in 550) on the same roads you're mentioning. Not nearly as much with 704 or DHP in sport/sport+ mode. Don't forget DHP also gives you "cushy/soft" ride on rough roads in comfort mode. For some, as discussed in length in other threads, that's a great option (granted one I almost never use myself).

I would personally recommend either over base suspension and would advise any potential buyer to test drive both when possible. In my opinion M sport suspension or DHP "upgrade" is money well spent. Cars with base suspension handle great for a big car, those with M sport or DHP handle that much better - DHP transforms the car in ways I didn't think was possible. Those who tried it will know what we're talking about.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Well, let's just agree to disagree. I've driven my 2016 550i with the M Sport suspension on twisty roads like Hwy 17, Hwy 9, and Skyline Dr. in NorCal, and it handled very well. I haven't felt the roll you're talking about, or any issues with the suspension. There's no deficiency at public road speeds. It's a great balance between sport and comfort, and it's great not to have to mess with settings. I also own a Porsche Cayman GTS, so I'm very familiar with good handling.

I wouldn't bother with DHP or IAS. Use the money for a nice road trip vacation, or toward the next car...

Fair enough.. I should've specified my comments were geared towards xdrive cars (something I take for granted is assumed, living in the northeast). Is your 550 RWD? I believe xdrive models either don't get the passive m or at least not stiffer springs. That's when, to me, DHP becomes imperative.

Also want to echo Bbb34's sentiment regarding being able to soften the ride when wanted. Another thing that may not be an issue in some areas, but with pothole riddled roads in the NE, it's nice to have a luxury sedan actually feel like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs the bumps and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi did and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if the passive also does that, but ever since adaptive drive first came out years ago, it made sense not only for performance, but comfort as well.

So again, RWD vs Xdrive has to be considered when looking at these options and look for that little * telling you what xdrive takes off the table before deciding on options.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Sure, if fine is what you're looking for, I suppose. Without ARS, it's a big car that drives like a big car. Conversation was about driving dynamics and comparing a smaller, more nimble car to a bigger one.. the current DHP (adaptive drive and ARS) bridges that gap and anyone that thinks the difference is negligible either hasn't driven one with those upgrades or doesn't care much about handling and body roll.

I was moving from an E91 wagon to the F11 wagon. Was essential for my driving to specify the Adaptive Drive option, to get the car to drive as near to the smaller 3-series as possible.

For me AD is the 'star' of all the options, if driving dynamics are key comparisons 3 to 5-series. Base suspension is not in any way going to give the 5-series the smaller car driving feel. Passive M-sport suspension is not the complete answer, particularly if road surfaces are mixed. Local road finishes ruled it out, as my driving conditions are so mixed. The suspension modes are essential, plus ARS controls the roll even in the comfort mode.

The result, I often find I'm driving through the twisty stuff faster in my F11 wagon, that I'd even drive the E91 wagon through the same bends. My opinion, AD helps shrink the car around you, takes away the big car feel.

My advice is always test the different suspension setups on the kind of roads you typically drive.

[Attila7]

I think it is worth noting that BMW may have been tinkering with the suspension and steering from year to year, given the pretty bad reviews they got initially. LCI cars definitely handle better.

I drive both an '02 e39 m-sport and '15 535ix m-sport. I find that the handling and ride quality differences come mostly from the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9)

I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and the difference, while noticeable, did not impress me to the tune of $3,500 cdn.

I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car that keeps me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also, one would have to look at tires, RF or not and 18" vs 19" vs 20". I wonder what matters most.

[chrisny]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I was moving from an E91 wagon to the F11 wagon. Was essential for my driving to specify the Adaptive Drive option, to get the car to drive as near to the smaller 3-series as possible.

For me AD is the 'star' of all the options, if driving dynamics are key comparisons 3 to 5-series. Base suspension is not in any way going to give the 5-series the smaller car driving feel. Passive M-sport suspension is not the complete answer, particularly if road surfaces are mixed. Local road finishes ruled it out, as my driving conditions are so mixed. The suspension modes are essential, plus ARS controls the roll even in the comfort mode.

The result, I often find I'm driving through the twisty stuff faster in my F11 wagon, that I'd even drive the E91 wagon through the same bends. My opinion, AD helps shrink the car around you, takes away the big car feel.

My advice is always test the different suspension setups on the kind of roads you typically drive.

+1, but to me, ARS is what was missing from my xdrive F30. Losing the stiffer springs for xdrive, the active dampers did not do nearly enough to make up for it. ARS does that on the F10, and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than people may think before driving cars with them. I remember talking to a salesman about it when I bought an E70 X5 4.8 years ago, how the one with sport package (included adaptive drive at that point) was also smoother over bumps.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by chrisny

+1, but to me, ARS is what was missing from my xdrive F30. Losing the stiffer springs for xdrive, the active dampers did not do nearly enough to make up for it. ARS does that on the F10, and does it well. The two together (ARS+AD) do a lot more than people may think before driving cars with them. I remember talking to a salesman about it when I bought an E70 X5 4.8 years ago, how the one with sport package (included adaptive drive at that point) was also smoother over bumps.

Totally agree ARS is the key component for getting a 5-series to handle better. I have read the next generation 3-series will have an option for some sort of active roll stabilization.

Over here in Europe we don't have the DHP option, we have a stand alone VDC (active dampers) option and Adaptive Drive (VDC+ARS). IAS (integral active steering) comes as a separate option. I don't have IAS, it's very rare here in the UK, so never got a chance to try it ahead of getting my F11.

ARS is sort of uncanny in the way the car can be so flat in cornering, even with a comfort suspension setting. I still marvel at its accomplishment, even after living with it for 3-years. The fact the ARB's can virtually de-couple on the straight and soften the single bumps is also something I really appreciate. Many of the roads I use are poorly surfaced and/or broken to the kerb side, so continuously notice that single wheel bumps don't cross the car like you'd feel from a stiff ARB that gives a similar roll control in the bends. AD means less compromises for any of us who are very sensitive to suspension vibrations and higher body frequencies.

[visualguy]

Originally Posted by chrisny

Also want to echo Bbb34's sentiment regarding being able to soften the ride when wanted. Another thing that may not be an issue in some areas, but with pothole riddled roads in the NE, it's nice to have a luxury sedan actually feel like one, even in sport mode. My 550 absorbs the bumps and stays stiff in the corners better than my 335xi did and better than my wife's X5 (no DHP). I don't know if the passive also does that, but ever since adaptive drive first came out years ago, it made sense not only for performance, but comfort as well.

The F10 passive M Sport suspension has a comfortable ride and absorbs bumps well, while still providing sporty handling.

It's quite different from the passive M Sport suspension on the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with the passive M Sport suspension, and the ride is quite harsh on that car. I would recommend getting the adaptive suspension on the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least on RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension).

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by visualguy

The F10 passive M Sport suspension has a comfortable ride and absorbs bumps well, while still providing sporty handling.

It's quite different from the passive M Sport suspension on the F30/F36. I also own an F36 (435i GC) with the passive M Sport suspension, and the ride is quite harsh on that car. I would recommend getting the adaptive suspension on the 3 and 4 series, but wouldn't bother with it on the 5 series, at least on RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension).

Personally I don't think it is that simple. For me it isn't just the car's suspension abilities, but the roads we drive which influences the suspension type I prefer. I find even with Adaptive Drive I wouldn't want to be limited to sport suspension mode all the time. Some parts of the road network I use in Scotland are just too poor a quality and the car is unsettled in sport mode, the secondary ride quality deteriorates. Run the middle setting and the compromises are fine, in fact it is well sorted indeed. Passive M-sport suspensions can be too firm and fidgety in my conditions, the working envelope is far too tight for decent primary and secondary ride quality over a range of roads. My priorities are decent roll and body control plus good secondary ride comfort, for me AD delivers both.

Some of my driving is in the south of England, if I was there all the time a passive sport suspension system may well be sufficient, as using sport mode with AD is fine to use virtually all the time.

It is great we have choices, I praise BMW for giving us the options, just get the right setup for your personal driving requirements.

[Bbb34]

Originally Posted by visualguy

The F10 passive M Sport suspension has a comfortable ride and absorbs bumps well, while still providing sporty handling....
....at least on RWD models (which offer the passive M Sport suspension).

For my personal taste, they all "should" be RWD with M sport suspension, that's what makes BMW, well BMW (not 100% serious on this - I'm fully aware of benefits of xDrive) .

The fact remains, not all F10s are RWD with M sport suspension. Buyers have different needs and preferences, and in my opinion DHP gives you best of both worlds.

I understand (and fully agree with you) that there's no need for DHP in your particular case, I too would be perfectly happy with that same setup. But, I feel that you're dismissing this option a bit too quickly for those who want flexibility or improvement over base suspension.

But enough with derailing the thread, let's hear from OP, how did the test drive go ?

[wheresmy5]

Originally Posted by Attila7

I think it is worth noting that BMW may have been tinkering with the suspension and steering from year to year, given the pretty bad reviews they got initially. LCI cars definitely handle better.

I drive both an '02 e39 m-sport and '15 535ix m-sport. I find that the handling and ride quality differences come mostly from the wheelbase changes. (F30: 110.6, E39: 111.4, F10: 116.9)

I drove a '15 535ix with adaptive drive and the difference, while noticeable, did not impress me to the tune of $3,500 cdn.

I know I can take highway exits as fast as I dare and it won't be the car that keeps me from going faster without AD/DHP. Also, one would have to look at tires, RF or not and 18" vs 19" vs 20". I wonder what matters most.

Bingo. LCI non-DHP handle much better than pre-LCI non-DHP. Not sure it's possible to get objective evidence of this, but I've driven both and felt a noticeable difference in body roll and steering feel.

[90rr]

Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday.
2013 535i with msport (no DHP -at least dealer was not sure about). Coming form e90 328i interior is so much more refined and it's in different class (I absolutely loved it ). It's a big car but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we went for the test drive and I got disappointed.
The power delivery is not what I expected reading all the comments here. Car is so much heavier than what I'm used to. Ride is nice but it failed to give me a "smile factor". Just too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. In the corners felt so long and combined with soft steering completely kill the thrill of driving a BMW. Im not sure how much JB4 would improve lack of power. But I think Ill go with 335i m-sport and sacrifice comfort for more engaging driving.
Don't get me wrong, car is nice but for me it would be just a vehicle to take you safely and comfortably from A to B. I cant believe I'm saying this but it feel awesome driving E90 on the way home. Heavy steering, great feedback,and N/A engine does the job for me. Too bad f30 is all turbo but I guess ill get used to...

[chrisny]

Sounds like you need to drive a 550

Won't help the size though. It's definitely a different feeling especially in corners and parking lots. It takes some getting used to and, for me at least, the fun factor returns once you do. Still a different feeling as the car glides through turns instead of just "going," but you can toss it around with the right equipment and with some getting used to. More fun than a 3? No way. Sounds like the jump from the original, "true BMW" feel of an E90 to an F10 might be too much for you.. Just be prepared the F30 also will leave you wondering where the heavy steering and some other things went. Make sure you get VSS one way or another to lessen that loss. It helps, but the steering may still bother you some.

[visualguy]

Get the adaptive suspension if you're getting a 3 or 4 series. The passive M Sport suspension is quite harsh. This is unlike the case with the 5 series where the passive M Sport suspension provides good comfort.

The driving experience of the 5 series is very different from that of the 3 series - exactly like you mentioned. I personally prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 series. If you prefer something more engaging and sporty, then the 3 or 4 series are a better choice.

[90rr]

Originally Posted by visualguy

Get the adaptive suspension if you're getting a 3 or 4 series. The passive M Sport suspension is quite harsh. This is unlike the case with the 5 series where the passive M Sport suspension provides good comfort.

The driving experience of the 5 series is very different from that of the 3 series - exactly like you mentioned. I personally prefer a more comfortable and quiet ride, so I prefer the 5 series. If you prefer something more engaging and sporty, then the 3 or 4 series are a better choice.

You are right on! I wouldn't mind an m5

[Bbb34]

Too bad you didn't like it, but maybe you went in with slightly unrealistic expectations, repeating the obvious, but 3 and 5 are very different cars. First time I test drove one, I walked away a bit underwhelmed unrealistically expecting 3 series "like" handling. Unlike you though, I did not feel engine performance/power delivery was lacking at all, even with the extra weight of the car. After trying direct competitors in the same class/size by accident I discovered DHP and never looked back.

At least you gave it a shot, hopefully you'll be happy with 335.

Have you taken 335 for a test drive yet ? While it's more nimble than 5 as chrisny said "...be prepared the F30 also will leave you wondering where the heavy steering and some other things went....".

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by 90rr

Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday.
2013 535i with msport (no DHP -at least dealer was not sure about). Coming form e90 328i interior is so much more refined and it's in different class (I absolutely loved it ). It's a big car but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we went for the test drive and I got disappointed.
The power delivery is not what I expected reading all the comments here. Car is so much heavier than what I'm used to. Ride is nice but it failed to give me a "smile factor". Just too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. In the corners felt so long and combined with soft steering completely kill the thrill of driving a BMW. Im not sure how much JB4 would improve lack of power. But I think Ill go with 335i m-sport and sacrifice comfort for more engaging driving.
Don't get me wrong, car is nice but for me it would be just a vehicle to take you safely and comfortably from A to B. I cant believe I'm saying this but it feel awesome driving E90 on the way home. Heavy steering, great feedback,and N/A engine does the job for me. Too bad f30 is all turbo but I guess ill get used to...

When I first test drove the F10 it was the 2013 model year and a 535. At the time I was driving an e90 335 - so similar situation to yours. I HATED the ride in the '13 535. Same issues you had - it was sloppy, all over the road, slower than I expected, etc.

I went home and had a small renewal of love for my 335i. Fast forward a year when the LCI '14 emerged. This time I went back and tested with various other options - including DHP and including the 550. My opinion was changed dramatically.

First off, the standard suspension on the F10 felt way too soft coming from the sport suspension on a 3-series. I found that DHP was perfect for me. I wanted a soft cushy ride at times (especially in city centers on rough roads), but then I also wanted it to feel controlled and sporty for nicely maintained roads and highways. DHP, along with its ARS feature, provided exactly that - and it was the only way to go with an xDrive car (no sport suspension option).

To resolve the power issue, I went to the 550. While it's a bigger car than the 3-series was, it's also faster. Perfect. Now, it's really as fast as it really ever needs to be for a DD sedan, comfortable, spacious enough, and handles according to the situation. DHP on the F10 is definitely one of my favorite options... if not THE favorite option.

[PEHM5]

Originally Posted by 90rr

You are right on! I wouldn't mind an m5

Get the M5. Trust me...you will love it!

[EL Jeffe 5]

I guess test drive it took me a one year to find car that I wanted price color etc...
and when i did find car I fly to California and drove back 1400k miles
I was originally looking at 535i F10 and ended up buying 550i F10 glad I did.
Good luck with search
One more thing be careful if deal is to good to be true it probably is Don't get Scammed.

[Nalod]

Originally Posted by 90rr

Ok. I did a test drive on Saturday.
2013 535i with msport (no DHP -at least dealer was not sure about). Coming form e90 328i interior is so much more refined and it's in different class (I absolutely loved it ). It's a big car but I didn't have that feeling inside. Then we went for the test drive and I got disappointed.
The power delivery is not what I expected reading all the comments here. Car is so much heavier than what I'm used to. Ride is nice but it failed to give me a "smile factor". Just too soft and completely detached from the driving experience. In the corners felt so long and combined with soft steering completely kill the thrill of driving a BMW. Im not sure how much JB4 would improve lack of power. But I think Ill go with 335i m-sport and sacrifice comfort for more engaging driving.
Don't get me wrong, car is nice but for me it would be just a vehicle to take you safely and comfortably from A to B. I cant believe I'm saying this but it feel awesome driving E90 on the way home. Heavy steering, great feedback,and N/A engine does the job for me. Too bad f30 is all turbo but I guess ill get used to...

I recently took a test drive an a 2013 535i MSport but with 6mt and felt very similar to your impression. Coming from a 2007 328i E92 coupe with sport and also MT, my impression that besides the F10 feeling huge and disconnected from the road, it felt slower!! Even with "Sport" selected.

But I bought it anyway!!! I felt this was a natural response from the smaller and 9 year old E92 and felt the trade offs were well worth the upgrade.

My goal is to live with it for a while before I consider any suspension mods. Anything I do to lower the suspension or create more road feel will also compromise the ride quality. Its why when I chose to go from a non sport E60 to the E9x in the first place: I wanted that feel and I thought making the bigger 5 series into something its not is counter productive. Not all with agree with me but modding the bigger car to feel smaller logically led to me just going smaller. This is subjective with each their own preference driving their decision.

I'll miss it the driving dynamic of the E9x but at the same I'll just enjoy the F10 MSport for the grand touring machine its meant to me. The F30 fit and finish and option choices were not very appealing for now as I prefer to buy my cars used with just under 30k miles. A week now of ownership I am very pleased.

[PJinCA]

Originally Posted by 90rr

Hi everyone.
My e90 328i is pretty much ready to find a new home and I started looking for 2013 335i with m sport package. Needless to say due to configuration my car discovery process is very slow and I'm taking my time until everything comes in place (price,options color etc.). lately I started looking more and more at 535i with m-sport. Much more space (I'm 6'5) and luxury for pretty much the same $$$. Didn't test drove either one yet and would like to hear form you who had a similar dilemma and went either way. I like power delivery on 335 but 5 gives you more for your buck.
Thank you in advance

I do like the 3 series, but like you - I am 6'4", so they never have had the space I needed. Hence the reason I am on my 3rd 5 series in a row
Add to that, I have a family and it's a no brainer. I picked up my 535 a couple of weeks ago, for a great price.