2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum 2011 550i needs new Engine 95k miles
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-08-2016, 10:37 PM   #23
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

I've been working on cars since I was 13. It doesn't matter the brand, Honda, BMW, Subaru, Acura it doesn't matter, an engine is an engine.

I understand everything you're saying and I'm not arguing with your opinion. I just simply disagree with it. An engine replacement with less than 100k is not normal. I never said anything about the cost of the repair in comparison to my honda. I was using it in reference that a 275,000 mile Honda had better reliability than majority of the BMW's I've owned. Obviously if you paid more something, maintaining it will be reflected in the cost as well. If this engine didn't already have a history of faulty design I wouldn't even be responding to this thread because shit happens. BUT it does have design flaws, that have been recognized by BMW, and that's the issue.

I've been driving BMW's for 6+ years. My last being an E60 M5 that was the biggest POS, BMW lemoned the car and I ended up with the 550. If anything, a more expensive, luxury car, 'the ultimate driving machine' that BMW claims, should be DESIGNED AND BUILT with quality parts. But in my experience with the 6 BMWs that I've owned, it's turning up to not be the case as of late. Since you've been driving BMW's longer than I have, I'm sure you agree, the brand has changed drastically. My '97 318ti outlasted my E90.

To the OP, take it from someone who has dealt with a dispute with BMW within the last year, you have a case here. Especially since you brought your car in with this issue before and they didn't diagnose the problem correctly, which arguably would have saved the engine if they would've caught it when you first did, don't go down without a fight. The odds surely aren't against you here, my case was much more difficult.

Now if they prove that this was caused due to negligence or wear and tear then obviously the owner is liable.

Last edited by SLVSRFR; 01-08-2016 at 11:36 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2016, 11:53 PM   #24
ezaircon4jc
Major General
ezaircon4jc's Avatar
United_States
4259
Rep
5,285
Posts

Drives: 2019 540i M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: San Diego

iTrader: (0)

I'm confused with all this CPO talk.... Is the OP's car a CPO or not? If so the CPO warranty should cover the repair.

And any modern engine that can't make 100K miles is rubbish. Even a Hyundai can do that! I understand pushing the envelope but reliability needs to be a driving concern.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 01:36 AM   #25
The Beast
Lieutenant Colonel
The Beast's Avatar
United Kingdom
266
Rep
1,597
Posts

Drives: VW Transporter Sportline
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wolverhampton

iTrader: (0)

I can see both points here and both the "for" and "against" have made very valid points. I guess the key for me is if this is an isolated incident then yes you gambled and lost, however if this is an issue that has occurred regularly with multiple owners (and you can clearly evidence this) then the product was never fit for purpose...
__________________
Current: VW Transporter Sportline, F48 X1 20i M Sport. Previous: F10 530d M Sport, W176 A200 CDI AMG Evolution, E70 X5 3.0 SD M Sport, F20 120d M Sport, E81 120d M Sport, E46 325i M Sport, E46 318ci & Many Others...
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 08:57 AM   #26
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK2BLN View Post
.... If anything, a more expensive, luxury car, 'the ultimate driving machine' that BMW claims, should be DESIGNED AND BUILT with quality parts. But in my experience with the 6 BMWs that I've owned, it's turning up to not be the case as of late. Since you've been driving BMW's longer than I have, I'm sure you agree, the brand has changed drastically. My '97 318ti outlasted my E90.
In what way?

I go back to the 1970's with BMW, to my father's New Class 2000 sedan. The whole history of BMW has its issues, shows the weaknesses of any model. I could list a few issues in this context, spread through the years. But that is like any other make, the weak links are bound to show up in high production numbers.

At the same time there are owners clocking over 200,000 miles without issues, even in the so called 'troubled' engines.

From my perspective of the OP's engine, we need to establish what went wrong, not yet known if it has anything to do with any existing issues. Facts are needed, not jumping to any conclusions of BMW making poor engines, as if this failure is an example of common issues.

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 11:25 AM   #27
ezmaass
Lieutenant Colonel
ezmaass's Avatar
United_States
370
Rep
1,698
Posts

Drives: '17 650xi GC / '15 Audi R8 V10
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
In what way?

I go back to the 1970's with BMW, to my father's New Class 2000 sedan. The whole history of BMW has its issues, shows the weaknesses of any model. I could list a few issues in this context, spread through the years. But that is like any other make, the weak links are bound to show up in high production numbers.

At the same time there are owners clocking over 200,000 miles without issues, even in the so called 'troubled' engines.

From my perspective of the OP's engine, we need to establish what went wrong, not yet known if it has anything to do with any existing issues. Facts are needed, not jumping to any conclusions of BMW making poor engines, as if this failure is an example of common issues.

HighlandPete
Yes, agreed.

Once we know what went wrong, it'll make a huge difference in this discussion. If it was truly a "design flaw" that lead to the engine blowing, I'd expect to see the problem reoccur in statistically significant numbers. If it was an isolated incident, I'd expect not.

Nobody's arguing that this engine has been without issue, but as Pete says, there are more than a number of other examples throughout BMW's history (and nearly all other makes) where you can find similar "less reliable" models to pick apart. And unless you can correlate the incident here to the engine's "other" known issues, it's meaningless. Sometimes bad stuff happens - to "good" engines and "bad" engines alike.

My point is simple, however - which is that YOU'RE the buyer, and it's your responsibility to do your homework, assume the risk of your purchase, and be prepared to mitigate the worst if it occurs. It's BMW's job to honor their warranty. If you're driving around in a 95k mile expensive luxury car without any kind of financial safety net (e.g. warranty), then you're assuming the risk should the worst happen - which could be a complete loss. Should it happen? Hell no. A modern engine shouldn't blow up at 95k miles. CAN it happen? Yes, to a BMW V8 or a Honda 4-banger.

Now, is a faulty design that lead to this issue? We just don't know. But if it was, I'd expect to see quite a few of these posts. And simply because the engine has had problems X, Y, and Z, it doesn't automatically mean those are related to this incident. Hopefully the OP will provide information as it becomes available. But truthfully, even if it turned out that the engine's design is the issue, and ALL of them will blow up prematurely, I'd still insist it's not BMW's liability - so long as they've honored their warranty terms, as that's ALL they've ever committed to you.
__________________
2017 BMW 650xi Gran Coupe | MSport | Exec Package | Driver Assist Plus | ACC Stop & Go | Adaptive Drive | B&O | Night Vision | Cold Weather | Active Seats
2015 Audi R8 V10 | Brilliant Red on Black | S-Tronic | Carbon Sideblades | Carbon Trim | Full Leather | Sport Exhaust | Illuminated Doorsills | I-Pod | Contrast Stitching
Previous: '14 550xi, '07 335i, '01 325i
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 11:35 AM   #28
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
In what way?

I go back to the 1970's with BMW, to my father's New Class 2000 sedan. The whole history of BMW has its issues, shows the weaknesses of any model. I could list a few issues in this context, spread through the years. But that is like any other make, the weak links are bound to show up in high production numbers.

At the same time there are owners clocking over 200,000 miles without issues, even in the so called 'troubled' engines.

From my perspective of the OP's engine, we need to establish what went wrong, not yet known if it has anything to do with any existing issues. Facts are needed, not jumping to any conclusions of BMW making poor engines, as if this failure is an example of common issues.

HighlandPete
Thats my opinion, the quality and service is not the same. My 318ti is still kicking with 300,000+ on the odometer. My E90 fell victim to nearly all the issues that plagued the platform, water pump twice in less than 60k, transmission mechatronic sleeve, HPFP, valve cover and oil filter housing gasket, and turbos. Maybe my luck has been bad lately with the brand, but 3 cars in a row have been pretty bad with no exaggeration. Spending copious amounts of time in service. Now, that doesn't mean I don't love the brand, working on cars is a passion for me. However, worrying about the next time a vehicle will throw me rather than enjoying the ride becomes cumbersome. I've been growing with the brand and can learn to enjoy it during its struggle years trying to properly incorporate turbos, but people act like we should accept the flaws just because of the brands past time or that since they're luxury cars that you pay big $ on you shouldn't complain when something fails. We can sit here and argue tit for tat, ping for pong, we all have our opinions. As an enthusiast I don't only browse the F10 forums, I still lurk the M5board, 1addict, E90 post, and my X3 forum. And you will witness plentiful loyal enthusiasts' discontent in the position BMW is at right now, you have to think that majority of BMW owners don't go online, log into forums, and report the issues they have. They just drop their cars off when service is due, drop it off when repairs are needed, return the car once the lease is up and never look back. Neither do those who never have issues, those don't get reported either. Like I said everyone's perception of the brand is different, this is just my opinion, you may feel differently, but this is based on my experiences.

Last edited by SLVSRFR; 01-09-2016 at 11:42 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 02:48 PM   #29
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK2BLN View Post
...Like I said everyone's perception of the brand is different, this is just my opinion, you may feel differently, but this is based on my experiences.
I don't run a BMW wearing any tinted glasses, under no illusions whatsoever. I had a new M62 engine in an E39 540i, at 65k miles, so know all too well the drill for premature failures.

But I wouldn't say all M62 engines were like mine. My neighbour is still running a 1998 E39 535i with the 3.5 M62 engine, now at over 300,000 miles without any engine work. It is one of the sweetest and quiet running M62 engines I've ever come across. Used nearly every day and is virtually silent from start up. Incidentally it is still on the original auto gearbox.

Back to my engine... it is where an extended warranty comes into play. I've had enough experience in the motor industry to always run under some form of warranty. In the UK, BMW warrant a new car for 3-years/60k miles. When we extend with the insured warranty, it typically has a change in terms above 60k miles for some wear and tear items, and at the 100k miles mark, where more exclusions apply. Understandably so.

My 540i was under the comprehensive extended warranty, (I'd not run a BMW out of warranty these days, far too complex), therefore nothing to pay whatever the cause of the fault. BMW's UK engine guru scoured the BMW world data base to try and identify my engine issue, as the common issues did not apply. Turns out there was no other M62 identified with my issues, when they opened up the engine, to find where the noise was coming from. Appeared a unique fault, possibly due to oil starvation, but totally unexplained. (Personally I think it ran lean and hot on one cylinder). The UK engine guy assured me that they'd fit a new engine if necessary, if repairs were not a solution. A new 'long block' engine was fitted.

Has the experience put me off the brand? Dented my loyalty a bit, not enough to move on, even with other issues in my BMWs. Still in a BMW over 10-years on.

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 03:18 PM   #30
visualguy
Captain
183
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M5
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
In general, BMW's V8 engines have been some of the most costly to maintain, and they're historically some of the most troubled. This isn't new with the N63 - there's a reason why the inline-6 is known as their bread-and-butter. But, in their defense, I'd also say they're not bad as far as luxury brands go. Want truly troubled? Try owning a Land Rover. And yet so many people, despite the reputation of mechanical issues, continue to do so - a trade-off for owning a vehicle, that when it DOES work properly, can do things like no other. But if someone's goals were pure reliability, I'd never direct them towards BMW... nor nearly any German luxury brand, since the brand's primary mission is sporting performance, innovation, luxury, and technology... and if they can make it all decently reliable at the same time, great, but reliability has never been the hallmark like it is with mainstream Japanese brands.
I think car manufacturers should not continue to sell cars with an engine that's known to have significant problems. It's not fair to have a "buyer beware" policy where buyers need to research the engine, and decide if they want to deal with its problems or not. Also, the manufacturer typically knows about the issues long before they are all over the Internet.

Indeed, durability and reliability aren't top design goals for these luxury German cars. For example, they keep producing engines that are known to have carbon buildup problems. However, there is a big difference between that type of problem, and the situation with the N63 engines.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2016, 04:13 PM   #31
HighlandPete
Lieutenant General
6659
Rep
15,858
Posts

Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Scotland, Highland Region

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
I think car manufacturers should not continue to sell cars with an engine that's known to have significant problems. It's not fair to have a "buyer beware" policy where buyers need to research the engine, and decide if they want to deal with its problems or not. Also, the manufacturer typically knows about the issues long before they are all over the Internet.

Indeed, durability and reliability aren't top design goals for these luxury German cars. For example, they keep producing engines that are known to have carbon buildup problems. However, there is a big difference between that type of problem, and the situation with the N63 engines.
We'd be short of diesel engines over here in Europe, if the manufacturers took that stance based on what appears to be a big quality issue.

We've had a serious issue with the BMW M47 diesel engine (and M57 in much smaller numbers), with swirl flap ingestion, which destroys the engine in most cases.

Realistically no one has got to grips with the numbers, or percentages of failure, not sure even BMW knows the true extent, as many fail outside the BMW network and get sorted without contact with BMW.

We also have had (still having) serious timing chain issues with the N47 diesel engine, again with many total failures and destroyed engines.

We are talking millions of engines in these ranges, but what percentage of failure? Is it even 0.1%? That is the big question and also whether BMW should intervene. They have at last taken responsibility for a specific date range of manufacturing, for the N47 timing chain issues.

The M-series swirl flap failures, BMW continue to deal with on a case by case basis. Many users have removed the swirl flaps from the intake manifold, put in blanking plates, to run with peace of mind. So figures are now totally distorted on the real rate of actual/possible failure.

BMW have taken the route of product improvement, redesigns through the years of production. Is it any different for any engine, or identified issue?

HighlandPete
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 03:00 PM   #32
RSBro
First Lieutenant
RSBro's Avatar
United_States
58
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: 2012 550i M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
I can see both points here and both the "for" and "against" have made very valid points. I guess the key for me is if this is an isolated incident then yes you gambled and lost, however if this is an issue that has occurred regularly with multiple owners (and you can clearly evidence this) then the product was never fit for purpose...
It will be over time. I wouldn't think most 550 owners (from the F10 change forward) have been putting ridiculous miles on them simply because of consumption, but as more '11s and '12 model years hit these 75k, 85k, closer to 100k marks and they start blowing up, BMW is going to have a big problem on their hands.
I only have 47.5k on mine right now but also have an extended warranty just in case. However if something related to the CCP causes my engine to nuke, I'm going to be quite perturbed.
As people have stated, BMW is aware of the issues and have put a band-aid on it and it remains to be seen if that is going to fix the issues.

Also, who knows if these problems are going to extend to the N63-TU variant on the '13+ models. Makes you wonder if that's why BMW was possibly looking at a ramped up I6 in the next-gen 550...
__________________
2012 550i///M-Sport///Carbon Black Metallic///Oyster+Black Dakota///ZCV+ZLS+ZMP+ZPP+ZPS+ZSP+ZTP...M5 exhaust///iND Tricolor grilles///H&R Sport Springs///Turner Motorsport 12mm+15mm spacers
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 03:14 PM   #33
SLVSRFR
Captain
SLVSRFR's Avatar
Guam
244
Rep
785
Posts

Drives: BMW 550i
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RSBro View Post
It will be over time. I wouldn't think most 550 owners (from the F10 change forward) have been putting ridiculous miles on them simply because of consumption, but as more '11s and '12 model years hit these 75k, 85k, closer to 100k marks and they start blowing up, BMW is going to have a big problem on their hands.
I only have 47.5k on mine right now but also have an extended warranty just in case. However if something related to the CCP causes my engine to nuke, I'm going to be quite perturbed.
As people have stated, BMW is aware of the issues and have put a band-aid on it and it remains to be seen if that is going to fix the issues.

Also, who knows if these problems are going to extend to the N63-TU variant on the '13+ models. Makes you wonder if that's why BMW was possibly looking at a ramped up I6 in the next-gen 550...
Exactly! Well said.

The issues that the CCP attempts to remedy are serious issues and could have caused detrimental damage to the engine prior to the CCP depending at when it was performed (my vehicle was already at 40k). I have 72k on mine and its starting to bog during idle at lights, stutter at low rpms, etc.
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 03:37 PM   #34
RSBro
First Lieutenant
RSBro's Avatar
United_States
58
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: 2012 550i M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK2BLN View Post
Exactly! Well said.

The issues that the CCP attempts to remedy are serious issues and could have caused detrimental damage to the engine prior to the CCP depending at when it was performed (my vehicle was already at 40k). I have 72k on mine and its starting to bog during idle at lights, stutter at low rpms, etc.
This is why I still can't bring myself to JB4 my car, as much as I want to. I just have this feeling mine is going to be one of the engines that will explode and they will blame it on that.
__________________
2012 550i///M-Sport///Carbon Black Metallic///Oyster+Black Dakota///ZCV+ZLS+ZMP+ZPP+ZPS+ZSP+ZTP...M5 exhaust///iND Tricolor grilles///H&R Sport Springs///Turner Motorsport 12mm+15mm spacers
Appreciate 0
      01-11-2016, 08:57 PM   #35
RED99HT
Private First Class
69
Rep
103
Posts

Drives: 21 M850i
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Charlotte

iTrader: (0)

I have a '14 550 w/N63 TU, bought it new Dec 2013, 63,000 miles on it now, Running BMS stage 1 dial set at 2 pm, when I say its been running trouble free its been trouble free. Change oil between required service intervals, Zero oil burn. Oh and I average 28 mpg on Hwy, no bullshit. overall average on computer is 23.4 mpg since I bought it.

OP, if you get a new motor ask for the N63 TU to replace it.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2016, 06:47 AM   #36
Surly73
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
525
Rep
1,868
Posts

Drives: '11 535xi 8AT KWv3 MPE MHD xHP
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oakville, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

I think it's very important when discussing how long an engine "should last", particularly compared to cars less expensive initially, that this engine did not wear out. It didn't gradually go downhill, start consuming oil and smoking, and eventually become useless because of general wear. They found chunks of metal in the oil. Whatever the cause, there was a more catastrophic failure. To me, the "initial cost" argument doesn't hold any weight in a catastrophic failure kind of situation.

Replacement is much earlier than reasonable expectations, without a doubt.
Appreciate 1
      01-12-2016, 08:41 AM   #37
RSBro
First Lieutenant
RSBro's Avatar
United_States
58
Rep
337
Posts

Drives: 2012 550i M-Sport
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: The Woodlands, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RED99HT View Post
I have a '14 550 w/N63 TU, bought it new Dec 2013, 63,000 miles on it now, Running BMS stage 1 dial set at 2 pm, when I say its been running trouble free its been trouble free. Change oil between required service intervals, Zero oil burn. Oh and I average 28 mpg on Hwy, no bullshit. overall average on computer is 23.4 mpg since I bought it.

OP, if you get a new motor ask for the N63 TU to replace it.
This is why I was torn about extending the warranty on mine or just getting a -TU equipped 550 2-3 years newer. Glad to hear it's been pretty trouble free.
That's some killer MPG too. I can bounce 24-24.5 if I peg it at 75 on a smooth highway but that's about it. I will get about 20.5 combined on a tank of Shell premium combined which ain't bad.
__________________
2012 550i///M-Sport///Carbon Black Metallic///Oyster+Black Dakota///ZCV+ZLS+ZMP+ZPP+ZPS+ZSP+ZTP...M5 exhaust///iND Tricolor grilles///H&R Sport Springs///Turner Motorsport 12mm+15mm spacers
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2016, 10:20 AM   #38
Keyser Soze
Private First Class
Keyser Soze's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
199
Posts

Drives: 2023 X5
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Northern California

iTrader: (0)

I may be completely off - but $32k sounds really high compared to the last time I was perusing Rennlist and 997 engine replacements were $21k. There has got to be a way for BMWNA to get that down to a more reasonable amount.
__________________
2023 G05 X5 x40i Phytonic Blue
....many prior BMW's back to a 1966 1600
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2016, 08:56 AM   #39
TheEngineer
Enlisted Member
TheEngineer's Avatar
4
Rep
36
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 550i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (1)

I'm worried about these major failures in this engine. I have a '11 with almost 50,000 on it now and just brought it in for a coolant leak. $1100 to fix because of the location of the hose (beneath those larger Dinan air to water intercoolers I had installed last year....). I wonder what other $0.50 piece (though BMW charges $60) will fail that causes these large bills.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-18-2016, 09:03 AM   #40
NickG_TechniqueTuning
Private
22
Rep
54
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 550i M-Sport
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_carr View Post
A new engine is around $32,000, and BMW has offered to pay 50-50% - but that still leaves me paying $16,000. The car is really only worth 20-25 with that many miles. I asked them to take their contribution and give me a credit on something else.
Do some more research, possibly with an independent shop.

A NEW engine from BMW for the 550i retails for $29474 (part number 11002296773). A remanufactured engine for the 550i retails for $13623 (part number 11002296774). Now, get this; a remanufactured engine for the 550iX retails for $4485 (part number 11002296776).

If it were me, I'd investigate getting the 550iX engine and swapping over whatever was needed (oil pan, mounts, etc.) from your original 550i engine.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:20 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST