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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 2011 550i needs new Engine 95k miles |
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01-08-2016, 10:37 PM | #23 |
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I've been working on cars since I was 13. It doesn't matter the brand, Honda, BMW, Subaru, Acura it doesn't matter, an engine is an engine.
I understand everything you're saying and I'm not arguing with your opinion. I just simply disagree with it. An engine replacement with less than 100k is not normal. I never said anything about the cost of the repair in comparison to my honda. I was using it in reference that a 275,000 mile Honda had better reliability than majority of the BMW's I've owned. Obviously if you paid more something, maintaining it will be reflected in the cost as well. If this engine didn't already have a history of faulty design I wouldn't even be responding to this thread because shit happens. BUT it does have design flaws, that have been recognized by BMW, and that's the issue. I've been driving BMW's for 6+ years. My last being an E60 M5 that was the biggest POS, BMW lemoned the car and I ended up with the 550. If anything, a more expensive, luxury car, 'the ultimate driving machine' that BMW claims, should be DESIGNED AND BUILT with quality parts. But in my experience with the 6 BMWs that I've owned, it's turning up to not be the case as of late. Since you've been driving BMW's longer than I have, I'm sure you agree, the brand has changed drastically. My '97 318ti outlasted my E90. To the OP, take it from someone who has dealt with a dispute with BMW within the last year, you have a case here. Especially since you brought your car in with this issue before and they didn't diagnose the problem correctly, which arguably would have saved the engine if they would've caught it when you first did, don't go down without a fight. The odds surely aren't against you here, my case was much more difficult. Now if they prove that this was caused due to negligence or wear and tear then obviously the owner is liable. Last edited by SLVSRFR; 01-08-2016 at 11:36 PM.. |
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01-08-2016, 11:53 PM | #24 |
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I'm confused with all this CPO talk.... Is the OP's car a CPO or not? If so the CPO warranty should cover the repair.
And any modern engine that can't make 100K miles is rubbish. Even a Hyundai can do that! I understand pushing the envelope but reliability needs to be a driving concern. |
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01-09-2016, 01:36 AM | #25 |
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I can see both points here and both the "for" and "against" have made very valid points. I guess the key for me is if this is an isolated incident then yes you gambled and lost, however if this is an issue that has occurred regularly with multiple owners (and you can clearly evidence this) then the product was never fit for purpose...
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01-09-2016, 08:57 AM | #26 | |
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I go back to the 1970's with BMW, to my father's New Class 2000 sedan. The whole history of BMW has its issues, shows the weaknesses of any model. I could list a few issues in this context, spread through the years. But that is like any other make, the weak links are bound to show up in high production numbers. At the same time there are owners clocking over 200,000 miles without issues, even in the so called 'troubled' engines. From my perspective of the OP's engine, we need to establish what went wrong, not yet known if it has anything to do with any existing issues. Facts are needed, not jumping to any conclusions of BMW making poor engines, as if this failure is an example of common issues. HighlandPete |
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01-09-2016, 11:25 AM | #27 | |
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Once we know what went wrong, it'll make a huge difference in this discussion. If it was truly a "design flaw" that lead to the engine blowing, I'd expect to see the problem reoccur in statistically significant numbers. If it was an isolated incident, I'd expect not. Nobody's arguing that this engine has been without issue, but as Pete says, there are more than a number of other examples throughout BMW's history (and nearly all other makes) where you can find similar "less reliable" models to pick apart. And unless you can correlate the incident here to the engine's "other" known issues, it's meaningless. Sometimes bad stuff happens - to "good" engines and "bad" engines alike. My point is simple, however - which is that YOU'RE the buyer, and it's your responsibility to do your homework, assume the risk of your purchase, and be prepared to mitigate the worst if it occurs. It's BMW's job to honor their warranty. If you're driving around in a 95k mile expensive luxury car without any kind of financial safety net (e.g. warranty), then you're assuming the risk should the worst happen - which could be a complete loss. Should it happen? Hell no. A modern engine shouldn't blow up at 95k miles. CAN it happen? Yes, to a BMW V8 or a Honda 4-banger. Now, is a faulty design that lead to this issue? We just don't know. But if it was, I'd expect to see quite a few of these posts. And simply because the engine has had problems X, Y, and Z, it doesn't automatically mean those are related to this incident. Hopefully the OP will provide information as it becomes available. But truthfully, even if it turned out that the engine's design is the issue, and ALL of them will blow up prematurely, I'd still insist it's not BMW's liability - so long as they've honored their warranty terms, as that's ALL they've ever committed to you.
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01-09-2016, 11:35 AM | #28 | |
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Last edited by SLVSRFR; 01-09-2016 at 11:42 AM.. |
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01-09-2016, 02:48 PM | #29 | |
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But I wouldn't say all M62 engines were like mine. My neighbour is still running a 1998 E39 535i with the 3.5 M62 engine, now at over 300,000 miles without any engine work. It is one of the sweetest and quiet running M62 engines I've ever come across. Used nearly every day and is virtually silent from start up. Incidentally it is still on the original auto gearbox. Back to my engine... it is where an extended warranty comes into play. I've had enough experience in the motor industry to always run under some form of warranty. In the UK, BMW warrant a new car for 3-years/60k miles. When we extend with the insured warranty, it typically has a change in terms above 60k miles for some wear and tear items, and at the 100k miles mark, where more exclusions apply. Understandably so. My 540i was under the comprehensive extended warranty, (I'd not run a BMW out of warranty these days, far too complex), therefore nothing to pay whatever the cause of the fault. BMW's UK engine guru scoured the BMW world data base to try and identify my engine issue, as the common issues did not apply. Turns out there was no other M62 identified with my issues, when they opened up the engine, to find where the noise was coming from. Appeared a unique fault, possibly due to oil starvation, but totally unexplained. (Personally I think it ran lean and hot on one cylinder). The UK engine guy assured me that they'd fit a new engine if necessary, if repairs were not a solution. A new 'long block' engine was fitted. Has the experience put me off the brand? Dented my loyalty a bit, not enough to move on, even with other issues in my BMWs. Still in a BMW over 10-years on. HighlandPete |
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01-09-2016, 03:18 PM | #30 | |
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Indeed, durability and reliability aren't top design goals for these luxury German cars. For example, they keep producing engines that are known to have carbon buildup problems. However, there is a big difference between that type of problem, and the situation with the N63 engines. |
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01-09-2016, 04:13 PM | #31 | |
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We've had a serious issue with the BMW M47 diesel engine (and M57 in much smaller numbers), with swirl flap ingestion, which destroys the engine in most cases. Realistically no one has got to grips with the numbers, or percentages of failure, not sure even BMW knows the true extent, as many fail outside the BMW network and get sorted without contact with BMW. We also have had (still having) serious timing chain issues with the N47 diesel engine, again with many total failures and destroyed engines. We are talking millions of engines in these ranges, but what percentage of failure? Is it even 0.1%? That is the big question and also whether BMW should intervene. They have at last taken responsibility for a specific date range of manufacturing, for the N47 timing chain issues. The M-series swirl flap failures, BMW continue to deal with on a case by case basis. Many users have removed the swirl flaps from the intake manifold, put in blanking plates, to run with peace of mind. So figures are now totally distorted on the real rate of actual/possible failure. BMW have taken the route of product improvement, redesigns through the years of production. Is it any different for any engine, or identified issue? HighlandPete |
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01-11-2016, 03:00 PM | #32 | |
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I only have 47.5k on mine right now but also have an extended warranty just in case. However if something related to the CCP causes my engine to nuke, I'm going to be quite perturbed. As people have stated, BMW is aware of the issues and have put a band-aid on it and it remains to be seen if that is going to fix the issues. Also, who knows if these problems are going to extend to the N63-TU variant on the '13+ models. Makes you wonder if that's why BMW was possibly looking at a ramped up I6 in the next-gen 550...
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01-11-2016, 03:14 PM | #33 | |
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The issues that the CCP attempts to remedy are serious issues and could have caused detrimental damage to the engine prior to the CCP depending at when it was performed (my vehicle was already at 40k). I have 72k on mine and its starting to bog during idle at lights, stutter at low rpms, etc. |
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01-11-2016, 03:37 PM | #34 | |
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01-11-2016, 08:57 PM | #35 |
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I have a '14 550 w/N63 TU, bought it new Dec 2013, 63,000 miles on it now, Running BMS stage 1 dial set at 2 pm, when I say its been running trouble free its been trouble free. Change oil between required service intervals, Zero oil burn. Oh and I average 28 mpg on Hwy, no bullshit. overall average on computer is 23.4 mpg since I bought it.
OP, if you get a new motor ask for the N63 TU to replace it. |
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01-12-2016, 06:47 AM | #36 |
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I think it's very important when discussing how long an engine "should last", particularly compared to cars less expensive initially, that this engine did not wear out. It didn't gradually go downhill, start consuming oil and smoking, and eventually become useless because of general wear. They found chunks of metal in the oil. Whatever the cause, there was a more catastrophic failure. To me, the "initial cost" argument doesn't hold any weight in a catastrophic failure kind of situation.
Replacement is much earlier than reasonable expectations, without a doubt. |
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01-12-2016, 08:41 AM | #37 | |
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That's some killer MPG too. I can bounce 24-24.5 if I peg it at 75 on a smooth highway but that's about it. I will get about 20.5 combined on a tank of Shell premium combined which ain't bad.
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01-16-2016, 10:20 AM | #38 |
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I may be completely off - but $32k sounds really high compared to the last time I was perusing Rennlist and 997 engine replacements were $21k. There has got to be a way for BMWNA to get that down to a more reasonable amount.
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01-17-2016, 08:56 AM | #39 |
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I'm worried about these major failures in this engine. I have a '11 with almost 50,000 on it now and just brought it in for a coolant leak. $1100 to fix because of the location of the hose (beneath those larger Dinan air to water intercoolers I had installed last year....). I wonder what other $0.50 piece (though BMW charges $60) will fail that causes these large bills.
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01-18-2016, 09:03 AM | #40 | |
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A NEW engine from BMW for the 550i retails for $29474 (part number 11002296773). A remanufactured engine for the 550i retails for $13623 (part number 11002296774). Now, get this; a remanufactured engine for the 550iX retails for $4485 (part number 11002296776). If it were me, I'd investigate getting the 550iX engine and swapping over whatever was needed (oil pan, mounts, etc.) from your original 550i engine. |
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