2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum To x drive or to not... in Michigan
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-31-2019, 08:53 PM   #1
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

To x drive or to not... in Michigan

I'm 535i shopping. M Sport only. X-Drive is ideal in Michigan for winter driving. But its much harder to find the car I want as RWD only are cheaper and more available.

1. Dont have to swap for snow tires
2. Suspension on x drive is softer than non x drive m sport

I've owned 3 M3's and 2 330i's with winter tires and got through each winter.

Just wondering if anyone else had to make this decision. What did you do, and what are your thoughts... 535i m sport vs. 535xi m sport. TIA.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS

Last edited by Damage Inc; 01-31-2019 at 08:54 PM.. Reason: sp
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 09:33 PM   #2
Bbb34
Major
Canada
731
Rep
1,472
Posts

Drives: '11 535i 6sp. DHP/RWD
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ON

iTrader: (0)

You'll have to decide what do you care for more, there are many threads about height difference suspension, handling, weight etc... between the two.

xDrive is smarter choice for winter driving, there is absolutely no doubt about it, but I'd still go with winter tires, we do on our other AWD vehicle.
RWD however is very capable too with great winter tires.

Here's mine, taken just few days ago.



My 5th winter in this car. Made many trips to ski hills and kid's hockey games without a single issue so far. We get tons of snow and tons of freezing rain for 4+ months every year, and crazy freezing temperatures in January and February.

With RWD as you know already, you cannot really get fast of the line, well not as fast as I can in my wife's "symetric AWD" but other than that, common sense and winter tires, and there's no issues at all. Then again, it's not for everyone, depends how much you value RWD the rest of the year (for me it was RWD, but also DHP and manual transmission too, so it was super easy decision considering my preferences).
Appreciate 1
      01-31-2019, 09:36 PM   #3
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

BBB, you have RWD correct?

Yeah, you're right. If all else is equal, I'll take x drive for this DD.

But its taking longer to find, its tempting to just grab a rwd only on the market.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 09:53 PM   #4
Bbb34
Major
Canada
731
Rep
1,472
Posts

Drives: '11 535i 6sp. DHP/RWD
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc View Post
BBB, you have RWD correct?

Yeah, you're right. If all else is equal, I'll take x drive for this DD.

But its taking longer to find, its tempting to just grab a rwd only on the market.
Mine is RWD, you are correct.

If you really want xDrive, my advice is to wait until you find the one that you like, sooner or later something you like will come up. You already know how RWD is behaving on snow, if that's your main criteria, xDrive is better choice no doubt.
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 10:00 PM   #5
lsturbointeg
Lieutenant General
lsturbointeg's Avatar
United_States
9149
Rep
14,522
Posts

Drives: 2011 535i Jet Black
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Asian lost in OH

iTrader: (0)

I've taken my 535i on 21's every year for the WoodWard Dream Cruise in Michigan. during that time of the year usually the roads aren't full of potholes. but I never take my car in areas i'm not familiar with. the fact you can't run a very aggressive staggered setup on the XDrive was a thumbs down for me which is why I went with the RWD. plus I don't drive my BMW in the winter as it hibernates in the garage away from all the salt on the roads!
__________________
~F90Conversion~21"3Piece Forged AvantGardeWheels~KWV1Coilovers~CQUENCE slotted/drilled rotors~GoodridgeStainlesslines~MeisterschaftQuadEx haust~Akrapovic 4"tips~VRSF DP~VRSF CP~TurboSmart BOV~K&N filter~CarbonFiberExteriorComponents~GladenAlphaCo mponents~MatchUp7BMW~Punch P300-12T~
Follow me on Instagram: lsturbointeg
Appreciate 0
      01-31-2019, 10:30 PM   #6
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the R8 captured the garage spot. The 535xi is the perfect DD for all seasons including business highway drives.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 06:48 AM   #7
Surly73
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
525
Rep
1,868
Posts

Drives: '11 535xi 8AT KWv3 MPE MHD xHP
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oakville, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

It's personal preference. I echo - if you're driving in the winter, get winter tires, whether you have X-Drive or not. Why do you feel that with X-Drive you don't need winter tires? How does X-Drive help you stop and turn faster? It doesn't. Get winter tires.

With that out of the way -- I have a 535xi now, but have been driving RWD BMWs with winter tires in Southern Ontario for decades. If I found myself fortunate enough to be sitting at my computer ticking options I'd like on a new car I was about to order, X-Drive wouldn't be one of them.

It is undoubtedly superior to RWD in challenging conditions. The problem is that it only makes an important difference a couple of times per year. It's easier to get through deep, heavy, slop from the "warm" winter storms we usually get here but, at the same time, the ONLY time I ever got stuck in a RWD BMW was when the snow was so deep and dense that the car was basically lifted off the ground. I backed up and went around another way.

The rest of the year I have almost no suspension options. I have a heavy front diff and transfer case being dragged around, adding weight, complexity and points of failure. I only have 65k km (40k miles) and I'm on my second or third transfer case (replaced under warranty which is now expired). I don't have the classic BMW RWD connected steering feel etc...etc...

Of course, local market conditions dictate what is even available to you. In my market, it seems like EVERYTHING is X-Drive. That's why I've got one... Everything is also automatic, another thing I wish was different but it is what it is.

I sure wish houses around here had garages like lsturbointeg's

Last edited by Surly73; 02-01-2019 at 09:36 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 07:31 AM   #8
Bbb34
Major
Canada
731
Rep
1,472
Posts

Drives: '11 535i 6sp. DHP/RWD
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc View Post
Yeah, the R8 captured the garage spot.
That's quattro right ??

Just slap some winter tires on it and you're good to go...
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 09:23 AM   #9
OrcaPod
Private First Class
Canada
74
Rep
168
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW F10 528i N52 engine
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Toronto, Canada

iTrader: (0)

As others mentioned just make sure to use winter tires regardless of xdrive or not.
You can invest the money you save on price difference into a good set of winter tires. I had the same dilemma when I was looking for 5-series: Xdrive or not.
Since I was buying a used car I decided to go with RWD 528i 2011 to save on potential maintenance costs . My car has been great so far this winter in Toronto Canada I drive quite a bit for skiing and it behaves pretty good in snow if you use common sense.
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 09:48 AM   #10
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bbb34 View Post
That's quattro right ??

Just slap some winter tires on it and you're good to go...
Ha ha. Its actually 87/13 rear bias so "feels" like RWD. It doesnt go out in the rain since it takes too long to clean it

And its too pretty to get dirty

Plus the front splitter is like 3" off the ground. So wouldn't get too far
Attached Images
 
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 09:53 AM   #11
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
It's personal preference. I echo - if you're driving in the winter, get winter tires, whether you have X-Drive or not. Why do you feel that with X-Drive you don't need winter tires? How does X-Drive help you stop and turn faster? It doesn't. Get winter tires.

With that out of the way -- I have a 535xi now, but have been driving RWD BMWs with winter tires in Southern Ontario for decades. If I found myself fortunate enough to be sitting at my computer ticking options I'd like on a new car I was about to order, X-Drive wouldn't be one of them.

It is undoubtedly superior to RWD in challenging conditions. The problem is that it only makes an important difference a couple of times per year. It's easier to get through deep, heavy, slop from the "warm" winter storms we usually get here but, at the same time, the ONLY time I ever got stuck in a RWD BMW was when the snow was so deep and dense that the car was basically lifted off the ground. I backed up and went around another way.

The rest of the year I have almost no suspension options. I have a heavy front diff and transfer case being dragged around, adding weight, complexity and points of failure. I only have 65k km (40k miles) and I'm on my second or third transfer case (replaced under warranty which is now expired). I don't have the classic BMW RWD connected steering feel etc...etc...

Of course, local market conditions dictate what is even available to you. In my market, it seems like EVERYTHING is X-Drive. That's why I've got one... Everything is also automatic, another thing I wish was different but it is what it is.

I sure wish houses around here had garages like lsturbointeg's
Surly, this is very insightful. Do I need x-drive for 8 days out of 365? I used this same logic on a large SUV - "but what about if I want to haul drywall from home depot once a year"? Do I really need to BUY a SUV to fit drywall? LOL. No, I'll just rent a truck.

Same w x drive to some extent. Worse case, I can rent an AWD car.

And yes, I would miss the driving dynamics of the 535 m sport. To me, its the perfect "german luxury machine".

Its not like I live in the rural hills. I live in the city, suburbs. I always got through the "winters" of M cars with a good set of snows.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS

Last edited by Damage Inc; 02-01-2019 at 09:54 AM.. Reason: sp
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 11:34 AM   #12
Bbb34
Major
Canada
731
Rep
1,472
Posts

Drives: '11 535i 6sp. DHP/RWD
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc View Post
And yes, I would miss the driving dynamics of the 535 m sport. To me, its the perfect "german luxury machine".

Its not like I live in the rural hills. I live in the city, suburbs. I always got through the "winters" of M cars with a good set of snows.
You are so right about "perfect German luxury machine".
There are faster, or more luxurious or more nimble... etc... but very few are "total package" as much as F10 RWD is in my opinion.

As for winters with RWD, I honestly don't just "get through the winter", I'm fully embracing it with winter sports, getting to some tricky locations and what not. Yeah, xDrive is better, absolutely no doubt, but RWD with great winter tires would surprise many.

One thing I forgot to mention is that, if you like driving and are attentive driver, these vehicles communicate back to the driver beautifully.
Yes, the steering feel isn't what it used to be with older hydraulic type steering (E90 comes to mind), but any, even slightest potential of rear end sliding is communicated to the driver pretty clearly and early, so that you can counter or back off immediately in order to address it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc View Post
Ha ha. Its actually 87/13 rear bias so "feels" like RWD. It doesnt go out in the rain since it takes too long to clean it

And its too pretty to get dirty

Plus the front splitter is like 3" off the ground. So wouldn't get too far
Great looking and I'm sure just a blast to drive vehicle... enjoy.

Last edited by Bbb34; 02-01-2019 at 11:48 AM..
Appreciate 0
      02-01-2019, 03:18 PM   #13
dcbullets
New Member
2
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: 2015 535i
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Fairfax, VA

iTrader: (0)

RWD all the way! I had a 2013 535xi and always noticed turning and cornering felt weird and "artificial".

I picked up a 2015 535i msport and it drives SO much better. It feels like a real sedan. I couldn't believe the difference.

I live in Northern VA, right outside of DC. The majority of BMWs have xdrive around here and it's rare to get a RWD. Seems really strange, but people around here feel they need it.
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2019, 08:33 AM   #14
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

My 320i is all but sold. So now I need to go from browsing to buying.

I'm eyeing a couple very nice 16 M Sport RWD that fit my budget.

As an old school "sport sedan" lover I will probably enjoy the RWD w 704 much more. I'll likely swap out the tires to Pilot A/S to soften the ride a tad if needed. Plus I despise RFT.

Then go with a dedicated set of winters. Ideally pick up something lightly used on the forum to get buy Dec/Jan/Feb.

My winter driving is slush and ice, not really "snow". And mainly highway.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS

Last edited by Damage Inc; 02-16-2019 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: sp
Appreciate 0
      02-16-2019, 11:29 AM   #15
johnhva
Private First Class
johnhva's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: 2014 535ix
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Virginia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
14 BMW 535ix  [0.00]
04 BMW 325cic 5MT  [0.00]
16 BMW R1200RT  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbullets View Post
RWD all the way! I had a 2013 535xi and always noticed turning and cornering felt weird and "artificial".

I picked up a 2015 535i msport and it drives SO much better. It feels like a real sedan. I couldn't believe the difference.

I live in Northern VA, right outside of DC. The majority of BMWs have xdrive around here and it's rare to get a RWD. Seems really strange, but people around here feel they need it.
I live in NV also and when shopping for a CPO F10 I chose AWD over RWD not for a "need" for AWD but for the way it drives. I really like the feel of the bite of all four wheels in turns in N55's Sport mode. Maybe it was just the particular sample RWD 535s I tested but I found their electric steering a bit vague by comparison. I didn't try an Msport so that may be a factor. That said, my second car is a trusty old E46 6MT convertible for a more authentic RWD groove.
__________________
2014 535i XDrive Alpine/Mocha Nappa Contour
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2019, 08:17 AM   #16
TEF
First Lieutenant
109
Rep
372
Posts

Drives: 16 X3 28d/18 540d xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 540d xdrive  [0.00]
2018 540d xdrive  [0.00]
2016 X3 28d  [0.00]
It's not clear to me as to what this 5 series sedan is suppose to do. As I understand it, you currently own an R8 that you cannot drive in snow and will not drive in the rain. Therefore, you are looking for a daily driver that works in well in snow and even rain. Since it's a given that the 5 series is intended for bad weather driving, then why the emphasis on at RWD 5 series? You've already conceded that your RWD R8 is useless in bad weather, so why purchase a second vehicle that will perform only slightly better in the face of snow? If one already owns a real sports car in the R8, wouldn't an AWD 5 series better serve the purpose of daily driver?
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2019, 06:35 PM   #17
gulfstream69xr7
Private
30
Rep
86
Posts

Drives: 535XI
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Greater Philly

iTrader: (0)

Had three inches of snow here last week. All season radials and Xdrive. No problem at all. Don't even need snow tires. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S +3
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2019, 07:18 PM   #18
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEF View Post
It's not clear to me as to what this 5 series sedan is suppose to do. As I understand it, you currently own an R8 that you cannot drive in snow and will not drive in the rain. Therefore, you are looking for a daily driver that works in well in snow and even rain. Since it's a given that the 5 series is intended for bad weather driving, then why the emphasis on at RWD 5 series? You've already conceded that your RWD R8 is useless in bad weather, so why purchase a second vehicle that will perform only slightly better in the face of snow? If one already owns a real sports car in the R8, wouldn't an AWD 5 series better serve the purpose of daily driver?
To answer your q: The 535i will be the DD. Since the R8 will spent a lot of time in hibernation all winter, I am leaning towards a RWD since it will offer a better driving experience for a sports sedan "fix". I will pick up a dedicated set of winter wheels/tires.

Finding an x drive spec'd how I want is proving to be very difficult. If all else was equal I would prob go x drive. But since not, I'll look at the glass half full as RWD w 704 will offer a more engaging drive that I'm accustomed to.

With all that said: I've had 8 different RWD BMW's with snow tires through Mich winters. Even with 265 rears. While not the perfect solution, I can navigate through the roads the few times a year it gets bad.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS

Last edited by Damage Inc; 02-18-2019 at 07:23 PM.. Reason: sp
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2019, 07:44 PM   #19
TEF
First Lieutenant
109
Rep
372
Posts

Drives: 16 X3 28d/18 540d xdrive
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 540d xdrive  [0.00]
2018 540d xdrive  [0.00]
2016 X3 28d  [0.00]
If you've already decided to purchase a RWD 5 series sedan, that's a fine decision. I doubt that any of us would dispute the fact that one can drive a RWD vehicle in snow with dedicated winter tires. However, I remain confused by the title of this thread "To x drive or to not... in Michigan". Where does an xdrive enter the picture?
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2019, 09:11 PM   #20
Damage Inc
Lieutenant Colonel
Damage Inc's Avatar
753
Rep
1,894
Posts

Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nashville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEF View Post
If you've already decided to purchase a RWD 5 series sedan, that's a fine decision. I doubt that any of us would dispute the fact that one can drive a RWD vehicle in snow with dedicated winter tires. However, I remain confused by the title of this thread "To x drive or to not... in Michigan". Where does an xdrive enter the picture?
I was debating if its worth the extra $$$ and pain to get an x drive vs. RWD for a year round DD in Mich.
__________________
Current: 11 E90 M3 ZCP / R8 Performance

Past Performance Cars: 01 M3, 05 M3, 06 M5, 08 M6, 08 M3, 11 M3, 13 M3, 15 M3, 911 C4S, 911 GTS, 17 M2,R8 V8, R8 RWS
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 07:28 AM   #21
Surly73
Lieutenant Colonel
Canada
525
Rep
1,868
Posts

Drives: '11 535xi 8AT KWv3 MPE MHD xHP
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Oakville, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

A new development in these debates is xDelete, which is due to come to our platform soon. xDelete is by the same folks who do the xHP transmission tune. So far xDelete is released for the 6HP transmission cars. Although it's true that you do not recover the weight of the front diff and transfer case, the difference in the driving experience is clear and significant according to every reaction post I've read.

Essentially xDelete runs under Android, connects via K+DCAN cable (just like MHD, xHP and other apps), and remaps the transfer case to never be active. If you're transfer case ECU is locked, it may take several minutes to unlock the first time (just like DME flash tunes) and after that it's a few seconds to enable/disable AWD.

If it's as good as people say, I'll probably flash RWD with summer tires and return to AWD when I mount my snows. Best of both worlds. Of course, this doesn't fix the "problem" that true 704 suspension wasn't offered on X-Drive but that's another story.

For me, I'd consider it ideal if there was a mode where the car was AWD until you turned DTC on or DSC off then it went RWD. I doubt that the transfer case ECU has the appropriate information from the rest of the car to make those decisions but who knows.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2019, 09:47 AM   #22
Ickdeep
Brigadier General
Ickdeep's Avatar
United_States
5706
Rep
4,209
Posts

Drives: '13 F10 M5 | '15 F15 X5
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Seattle, WA

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2015 BMW X5  [10.00]
2013 BMW M5 [SOLD]  [10.00]
2013 BMW 535i [SOLD]  [10.00]
I'd highly recommend getting an x-drive. I had a 535ix drive with MSport package and took some time to find but I got it. It doesn't snow that much here in Seattle but when it does, the x drive handles it like a champ. And for everyday raining weather, it was very good. Never having to worry about the back end coming out in a corner. I would recommend getting rid of the run flats and putting on some other tires (I had Michelin A/S 3+).

Plus, eventually when you want to sell it you'll have a higher resale value compared to RWD

Modded is pretty much the same. I was kind of limited on suspension but I ended up putting in H&R Sport springs to drop it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:05 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST