[Pottsy]

Morning.

I own a 2012 3.0 XF, I do 24,000 miles a year (nearly all motorway, but I still enjoy a good A/B road blast) and have come to the point where I'd like a change.

I value: silky smooth powerful engines, supple ride, refinement (quietness), accurate and precise handling. Sadly with my mileage, economy is a consideration too, so diesel it is.

My issues with the XF are a rock solid ride, and outdated infotainment system. I'd also like to sell before it goes over the second depreciation cliff.

Everything tells me a 530d with adaptive drive would fit the bill. In theory:

Engine: similar output, but maybe less low down grunt due to a low turbocharger count.
Gearbox: exactly the same!
Ride: BMW has more choice, so is configurable to what I want.
Economy: about the same (I get 48 out of the XF).

So I called my local BMW dealer. I had low expectations, because my previous dealings with BMW dealers have been poor. This dealer was part of a large group, and the salesman told me that they had no 530d's to drive anywhere at all. But would I like a 640d?

I called the next dealer, and they had a new 530d Msport demonstrator, with no VDC and 19" wheels. I drove this, knowing that I was going to have to use my imagination a bit....

Engine: not as quiet and smooth, less low down grunt (as expected), but quite acceptable.
Gearbox: the same! Love the ZF 8 speed.
Ride: About the same as the XF. Mine has optional aftermarket comfort springs/dampers - I reckon the 530d with Msport suspension is a tiny bit softer than my XF was on OEM springs. But not much in it, and fine because I would specify adaptive drive.
Steering: Didn't think about that. The 530d has very little feel, especially around the straight ahead position. The car just has a tiny mind of its own, giving reduced stability. I appreciate that the 530d has electric steering and the XF has hydraulic, but I didn't expect the difference to be so great.
Noise: OMG. And this is where I need your help. The engine was a bit noisier in the 5, but the road noise! Really intrusive, particularly (and oddly) from the front right. My wife though (in the back) said that it was a load noisier too, so I guess from all around.

Now, this 530d was on 19" wheels and suitably massive RFTs. My question is:

How much difference will it make going from 19" RFTs to 18" proper tyres? In terms of noise, and steering feel? And are there any steering options that genuinely get rid of the vagueness around the straight ahead?

Also, are there any dealers in the East Midlands (or near) who are useful and know what they are doing? The chap on the test drive didn't know the first thing about the options and possibilities on the 5.

TIA!

[Pottsy]

Does anyone know of any way of test driving a 5 with adaptive drive and IAS?

[gspannu]

Originally Posted by Pottsy

Morning.

I own a 2012 3.0 XF, I do 24,000 miles a year (nearly all motorway, but I still enjoy a good A/B road blast) and have come to the point where I'd like a change.

I value: silky smooth powerful engines, supple ride, refinement (quietness), accurate and precise handling. Sadly with my mileage, economy is a consideration too, so diesel it is.

My issues with the XF are a rock solid ride, and outdated infotainment system. I'd also like to sell before it goes over the second depreciation cliff.

Everything tells me a 530d with adaptive drive would fit the bill. In theory:

Engine: similar output, but maybe less low down grunt due to a low turbocharger count.
Gearbox: exactly the same!
Ride: BMW has more choice, so is configurable to what I want.
Economy: about the same (I get 48 out of the XF).

So I called my local BMW dealer. I had low expectations, because my previous dealings with BMW dealers have been poor. This dealer was part of a large group, and the salesman told me that they had no 530d's to drive anywhere at all. But would I like a 640d?

I called the next dealer, and they had a new 530d Msport demonstrator, with no VDC and 19" wheels. I drove this, knowing that I was going to have to use my imagination a bit....

Engine: not as quiet and smooth, less low down grunt (as expected), but quite acceptable.
Gearbox: the same! Love the ZF 8 speed.
Ride: About the same as the XF. Mine has optional aftermarket comfort springs/dampers - I reckon the 530d with Msport suspension is a tiny bit softer than my XF was on OEM springs. But not much in it, and fine because I would specify adaptive drive.
Steering: Didn't think about that. The 530d has very little feel, especially around the straight ahead position. The car just has a tiny mind of its own, giving reduced stability. I appreciate that the 530d has electric steering and the XF has hydraulic, but I didn't expect the difference to be so great.
Noise: OMG. And this is where I need your help. The engine was a bit noisier in the 5, but the road noise! Really intrusive, particularly (and oddly) from the front right. My wife though (in the back) said that it was a load noisier too, so I guess from all around.

Now, this 530d was on 19" wheels and suitably massive RFTs. My question is:

How much difference will it make going from 19" RFTs to 18" proper tyres? In terms of noise, and steering feel? And are there any steering options that genuinely get rid of the vagueness around the straight ahead?

Also, are there any dealers in the East Midlands (or near) who are useful and know what they are doing? The chap on the test drive didn't know the first thing about the options and possibilities on the 5.

TIA!

Few things:
The Jag is going to feel more comfortable than the 5 - regardless of what options you choose. VDC (or Adaptive Drive) makes a huge difference to the ride quality; but that is as close you are going to come.

19" and 18" RFT will not make a huge difference, especially with VDC/AD, the difference on normal roads will not be noticeable. Since most of your driving is going to be motorway, I doubt a huge difference.

Road Noise: Test drive another car, a non-M Sport and see if you spot any difference. My personal opinion, the Jag is better insulated away.

Steering: Put the car in Sport mode, and see if it feels right. Or get a 535 - that still has hydraulic steering.

[xenon]

Which dealer were you using, as a matter of interest?

[The Beast]

You tried Sytner, Birmingham are excellent

My mate is a used car salesman there, can send you his details if you PM me

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by gspannu

Steering: Put the car in Sport mode, and see if it feels right. Or get a 535 - that still has hydraulic steering.

535d has EPS, only xDrive models have hydraulic steering. IAS option is also electric. If you have Adaptive Drive there is still a hydraulic 'steering' pump and reservoir, etc.

From my experience, Adaptive Drive does give a bit more agility to the steering, but the mid position is a little less precise than BMW hydraulic systems we may have been used to.

HighlandPete

[Pottsy]

Thanks for your input.

Gspannu, the facelift XFs went rock solid, hence the appearance of aftermarket solutions. Everyone assumes XFs are like a sofa, until they drive one!

I think I need to try an adaptive drive car on 18s. With EPS I realise the driving experience is always going to be compromised, it's just a question of whether I can live with it.

On the car I drove, I did try sport setting, but it just appeared to increase the weighting and made no change to the feedback level. Small inputs to the steering made no change to the steering direction, and small changes in direction from the car were therefore difficult to correct until they become larger changes. It felt to me exactly like the steering on a Honda Accord, if anyone has ever driven one of those.

Dealers so far include Sytner Leicester and Stratstone Derby. I tried to buy a BMW from Sytner Birmingham about 5 years ago and the salesman flatly refused to let me drive on a dual carriageway unless I booked an extended test drive. So I asked to book an extended test drive and he said no, I have to book it by phone. So I pulled my phone out and asked for the number and he said he didn't know it. So I left and bought a Merc.

I am pretty sure there is a 5 out there for me, but the battle that has to be done at the dealer stage is a long and difficult one!

[Pottsy]

HighlandPete,

When compared to a regular Msport car, how much improved is the secondary ride on an adaptive drive car on a typical motorway?

[AP]

I have owned a 530d Msport from new for 2.5 years now.
(You can look at my review I did of it after 1 years here if you want)
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthre...highlight=530d

I think you have highlighted what I (and many others it seems) consider to be the 2 weaknesses of the F10.

The steering which is not as good as certainly the E39 I came from. (That was nigh on perfect in my opinion). Yes you can increase the weighting by putting it in sport but you may not want to drive around in sport mode to achieve that all of the time. (You can weight it up by disabling DSC as well, but again that's probably not what you want to do!)

I've got used to it now but agree it certainly lacks weight and feel, although its difficult to describe in more detail what I mean by that.

The other weakness are the tyres / suspension. I can't speak for any of the active suspension set ups as I've not experienced them my self but others here do speak highly about it. However trying to find a car that has that option to try may be difficult . I have the msport passive suspension and 19 inch wheels and on the motorway where you say you will spend most of your time, I find it fine. Its the town roads with the potholes and bad surfaces that you are very much aware of.

The engine I find very good, very pleased with it. I like the low revving laziness and effortless power it has . At slow speeds you can tell its a diesel but once it is moving, it sounds refined to me.

I wonder whether the tyre choice has a significant impact on noise. I have the Michelin Primacy tyres and these are ok but I'm sure non run flat tyres would be better.

In perfect world if I could have a F10 with E39 steering, tyres and suspension, I'd be very happy indeed as the rest of the car is I feel very good.

Guess its worth trying some other models , those with an active suspension (if you can find one) and see if that changes your mind.

[Pottsy]

AP,

Thanks. There are elements of the Jag I would like (hydraulic steering, 2 turbo engine, quietness) and elements of the 530d I would like (infotainment, toys, and I think variable/improved ride). At least the gearbox is the same!

I know there's the 535d as an option for 2 turbos, and I am sorely tempted. But with all the stuff that comes std on the Jag added on to the 535d even the DTD price is getting a bit mental.

I have emailed BMW Customer Services asking how I can go about getting a test drive in an AD car, but they have yet to reply.

[ZeroFx]

Lol did you just compare the POS ford engine inside the Jag XF to the BMW 6 Pot Diesel??!?!?

[Pottsy]

Er no! The POS Ford engine I personally would describe as a FPOS Ford engine. It is why I am allergic to the 2.2 XF and Evoque.

The twin turbo V6 3.0 though is slightly smoother and quieter and low-down-gruntier that the single turbo straight 6 BMW engine in the 530d. However the refinement is most likely down to the engine mounts and insulation - the same V6 in the Disco 4 is about the same engine NVH as in the 5 (not quite as good as the Jag but still excellent).

On the subject of taxis dressed up as cars, I recently drove a new C250. That engine is somewhat worse even than the 2.2XF/Mondeo/Evoque lump - rattly, noisy, harsh, generally horrible. Suitable though, for the hard of hearing.

Still no reply from BMW Customer Services.

[jamiey]

Try the BMW UK twitter account perhaps?

I quizzed them about X3 Brochures and they got back to me within a couple of hours.

[IanHg]

I tried a 535 with Adaptive Drive by test driving a used car. I don't think it will be easy to find a new demo car with AD. The 535 cars on the used car list all seem to be BMW management / HQ cars and they all seem to have AD.

The 535 with AD seemed a much better car than the 530d I also test drove - engine is much better and AD seemed to improve the ride but I can see why spending £2700 on it is a rarity.

I also test drove an XF 3.0 S Portfolio and although it's quieter and rides better than the BMW (even with AD) I couldn't get on with the seats and the gearbox (same one as the BMW) isn't as well implemented as in the BMW.

I'm settled on the 535d with AD now & trying to get the best price. There are some good discounts so don't expect to have to pay anything like list.

[GMTRB5]

I've just bought a 535d M Sport .. got over 20% discount off list price including options ..

[IanHg]

Do you find the 535d noisy on the motorway? Tyre/wind noise rather than engine.

[GMTRB5]

No, not at all .. although I've traded up from a 330d Coupe which definitely didn't have as much sound proofing as the 5 series

[Pottsy]

It looks like I may be chasing the wrong car. I will do my best to drive a 535d with AD asap. The discounts (DTD and buyacar) make the 535d more affordable than I thought.

[GMTRB5]

Yep I used DTD - had the biggest discounts and were really friendly / easy to use

[IanHg]

Just ordered my 535d with AD. I had two main dealers close to me effectively matching the DTD price and I ended up with a 22% discount on list with all the options. Given how easy it was, there's probably more discount to be had if you're willing to put the effort in.

If you want value for money though there are some huge discounts on the 7 series. With the "exclusive" package, BWM discounts and dealer discounts they can easily end up cheaper than a 5 and may get even better as the new 7 gets closer to launch next year.

[AP]

I thought i did well 2.5 years back getting 12% off mine.

[IanHg]

I think you did well but BMW are adding £5,500 themselves as dealer support (amount varies by platform and model) at the moment so it's just getting added to the discount.