[snowmuch]

Got my F10 about half a year ago and the things I love about this car are the looks, interior quality and ride comfort. However, the handling and sound aren't that impressive at all. So that's what mods are for! I do have BMS intake, tune and a set of coil as part of my plan.

Customer service: I dealt with Tiago at VRSF and he is super friendly, helpful and answered all my questions.

Installation and fitments: Taking off the floor panel and stock downpipe took about an hour and half, installing the new pipe took no more than ten mins it was very easy and the fitment is spot on.

Sound and performance gain: I can hear the turbo whistle and it is very exciting and it comes with a slightly power gain as well. (My local tuning shop promises 150WHP/100TQ with DP and tune)

The verdict: VRSF DP offers great performance gain for a very reasonable price and the fitment is spot on so I highly recommend this mod.

Here are some pictures and sound comparison:







[u2b]https://youtu.be/k5zSdKOnFng[/u2b]

[lsturbointeg]

That's awesome! So stock exhaust? U can hear the Turbo spooling! Should be a bigger improvement if u went with an exhaust right?

[snowmuch]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

That's awesome! So stock exhaust? U can hear the Turbo spooling! Should be a bigger improvement if u went with an exhaust right?

Yup stock exhaust. After market exhaust will provide an better sound.

[Bmw doubles]

Thanks for the video. I'm getting the same DP installed in a few days with stock exhaust. What's the butt dyno telling you?

[493263]

DP + Tune is probably the most cost effective way to gain power for a turbo motor. But 150hp and 100tq from a DP+ Tune is probably in dream land. I doubt you will get there even with full bolt ons. If any shop said that, they are exaggerating. The turbos on the 535 just simply cannot go that far.


Something about this review smells like VRSF nudged you towards it. It's perfectly ok to do that but it should be disclosed.

[snowmuch]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

Thanks for the video. I'm getting the same DP installed in a few days with stock exhaust. What's the butt dyno telling you?

I would say about 20 whp according to my butt dyno XD

[snowmuch]

Originally Posted by 493263

DP + Tune is probably the most cost effective way to gain power for a turbo motor. But 150hp and 100tq from a DP+ Tune is probably in dream land. I doubt you will get there even with full bolt ons. If any shop said that, they are exaggerating. The turbos on the 535 just simply cannot go that far.


Something about this review smells like VRSF nudged you towards it. It's perfectly ok to do that but it should be disclosed.

They claim that they have cracked the ECU on f10, so it should be on the same performance level as e9x n55. After doing my own research on DPs I have decide on going with VRSF due to its price point, I was initially going with AR but they cost over $1000. As I was looking for reviews on VRSF I found limited reviews on F10 N55, so I went to Tiago to see if he give me any incentive if I do an review on this product after. He gave me a better shipping rate because I live in Canada, it was only a little bit but their willingness to work with their future client says something about the company.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Awesome !!
Thank you for the review

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by snowmuch

They claim that they have cracked the ECU on f10, so it should be on the same performance level as e9x n55.

Awesome can't wait for mine. I can confirm the cracking of the ECU. My big tank hauls butt, and after the DP stage 2 tuning is scheduled for some more ponies.

[Tiago@VRSF]

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts

We're working on a CP currently for the F10 as we speak as well!

[lsturbointeg]

Originally Posted by 493263

DP + Tune is probably the most cost effective way to gain power for a turbo motor. But 150hp and 100tq from a DP+ Tune is probably in dream land. I doubt you will get there even with full bolt ons. If any shop said that, they are exaggerating. The turbos on the 535 just simply cannot go that far.


Something about this review smells like VRSF nudged you towards it. It's perfectly ok to do that but it should be disclosed.

What about with a flash and not a piggyback? DP/CP and full exhaust possible no Meth? I'd be happy just to get an additional 100 ponies.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

What about with a flash and not a piggyback? DP/CP and full exhaust possible no Meth? I'd be happy just to get an additional 100 ponies.

In terms of power piggy and flash will give same power. They can both be adjusted depending on your goals.

[Jayphil]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

What about with a flash and not a piggyback? DP/CP and full exhaust possible no Meth? I'd be happy just to get an additional 100 ponies.

The problem is the size of our turbo. If ever someone is able to reach 100hp gain with stock turbo the torque at low RPM will be massive to a point where I would doubt about the reliability of other component especially the automatic transmission.

I would recommend to skip the exhaust (only get a downpipe) and do a turbo upgrade to reduce torque and increase hp at higher RPM to reach your goal. Pure stage 1 should give you about that for the cost or less of a full exhaust.

[lsturbointeg]

Originally Posted by Jayphil

The problem is the size of our turbo. If ever someone is able to reach 100hp gain with stock turbo the torque at low RPM will be massive to a point where I would doubt about the reliability of other component especially the automatic transmission.

I would recommend to skip the exhaust (only get a downpipe) and do a turbo upgrade to reduce torque and increase hp at higher RPM to reach your goal. Pure stage 1 should give you about that for the cost or less of a full exhaust.

With my car under warranty I don't think I can go with the Turbo upgrade. So I'll have to stick with the normal upgrades for now...flash/piggyback tune, DP, CP and exhaust.

[snowmuch]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

Thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts

We're working on a CP currently for the F10 as we speak as well!

You're welcome! What is CP and what does it do?

[Tiago@VRSF]

A chargepipe is the tubing that connects the intercooler to the throttle body. They're made from thin plastic and are notorious for blowing up on turbo BMW's when you add a tune or increase the boost

[493263]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

What about with a flash and not a piggyback? DP/CP and full exhaust possible no Meth? I'd be happy just to get an additional 100 ponies.

Piggyback work generally by altering the signals to your ECU. Cracking the ECU allows you to have more controls and doesn't need to rely on altering the signals, instead you have direct control to adjust the map. Overall, it is just 2 different methods to achieve the same result but having direct control will have the potential for a safer tune.

The N54 engine in stock form has more potential than the N55 because of its real twin turbo setup. The N55 uses a single twin scroll turbo. The twin scroll save BMW money and give you a slightly better useable torque band for daily driving. The N54 twin turbo pushes more air and cooler air. And I don't believe you can swap the N55 for an N54 without being too expensive.

You won't get +100 whp with the N55 without it being illegal, unsafe or impractical and you will probably need more bolt-ons upgrades to get close. If you boost the stock turbo too high, it will create so much heat that pushing higher psi will actually result in less power. On top of that, you get exponentially higher detonation(aka knock) issues. The way around that is to use water or meth injection to cool the air intake temperature and increase octane. You can also upgrade the intercooler to cool down the air but it can hurt your performance if your FMIC is too large for your turbo. Depending on the application, it can cool 50-200 degrees. But you'll need to have a small tank for the meth/water and it doesn't last long. I know some people use it on the street but that's generally a stupid idea.

The only real way to gain 100+whp safely on an N55 is to upgrade the turbo and a few associated parts. As far as tuning goes, you need to get on the dyno and tune for the base map. Then datalog on the street/track as you drive. Use the data to adjust the map slightly as a car sitting still on a dyno is not the same as a moving vehicle. I haven't modified a car in the past 8 years, perhaps the ECU can adjust itself much better with higher tolerance. Considering different vendors with standardized upgrade paths with Stages and specific tunes for each, I would say individual dyno tuning and adjustments are still needed if your mods are different than theirs.

Honestly, I don't know why people pay so much money for these parts. $1000 for a down pipe is outrageous. Even at $350, these shops still have plenty of profit margins on them. The only problem is that they can't get enough sales to cover the fixed cost of R&D. Jacking up the price isn't going to help them achieve higher numbers.

[lsturbointeg]

Nice! Thanks for all that information!

[snowmuch]

Originally Posted by 493263

Piggyback work generally by altering the signals to your ECU. Cracking the ECU allows you to have more controls and doesn't need to rely on altering the signals, instead you have direct control to adjust the map. Overall, it is just 2 different methods to achieve the same result but having direct control will have the potential for a safer tune.

The N54 engine in stock form has more potential than the N55 because of its real twin turbo setup. The N55 uses a single twin scroll turbo. The twin scroll save BMW money and give you a slightly better useable torque band for daily driving. The N54 twin turbo pushes more air and cooler air. And I don't believe you can swap the N55 for an N54 without being too expensive.

You won't get +100 whp with the N55 without it being illegal, unsafe or impractical and you will probably need more bolt-ons upgrades to get close. If you boost the stock turbo too high, it will create so much heat that pushing higher psi will actually result in less power. On top of that, you get exponentially higher detonation(aka knock) issues. The way around that is to use water or meth injection to cool the air intake temperature and increase octane. You can also upgrade the intercooler to cool down the air but it can hurt your performance if your FMIC is too large for your turbo. Depending on the application, it can cool 50-200 degrees. But you'll need to have a small tank for the meth/water and it doesn't last long. I know some people use it on the street but that's generally a stupid idea.

The only real way to gain 100+whp safely on an N55 is to upgrade the turbo and a few associated parts. As far as tuning goes, you need to get on the dyno and tune for the base map. Then datalog on the street/track as you drive. Use the data to adjust the map slightly as a car sitting still on a dyno is not the same as a moving vehicle. I haven't modified a car in the past 8 years, perhaps the ECU can adjust itself much better with higher tolerance. Considering different vendors with standardized upgrade paths with Stages and specific tunes for each, I would say individual dyno tuning and adjustments are still needed if your mods are different than theirs.

Honestly, I don't know why people pay so much money for these parts. $1000 for a down pipe is outrageous. Even at $350, these shops still have plenty of profit margins on them. The only problem is that they can't get enough sales to cover the fixed cost of R&D. Jacking up the price isn't going to help them achieve higher numbers.

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1130950

Bmw doubles got 40WHP/124TQ just from a beta test flash tune. I agree that N54 has much more potential than N55 but I do trust my tuner and 100HP from tune and DP should be achievable. With flash tune they can even adjust things such as engine blip sound(upshift and downshift) making it louder which is to my likings.

[493263]

Originally Posted by snowmuch

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1130950

Bmw doubles got 40WHP/124TQ just from a beta test flash tune. I agree that N54 has much more potential than N55 but I do trust my tuner and 100HP from tune and DP should be achievable. With flash tune they can even adjust things such as engine blip sound(upshift and downshift) making it louder which is to my likings.

The +100whp and tq is at specific RPMs. They basically untapped engine and turbo to max power at the lower RPM. You notice you cannot see much in the top end unless you increase boost more. Then you have high temp, diminishing returns, and massive unreliability. BMW tuned their cars for smooth delivery and safety while tuners tune for max power and their safety margin is more like "if it doesn't grenade itself in a few months".

Regardless of what they do, the stock turbo cannot create another 100whp overall because it cannot push enough air at adequate temperature at the top end. I've already explained this. The only way around it is additional mods like meth injection. Or retard timing and push your injectors to the limit by making your engine run rich so the extra fuel can cool your pistons/cylinders and control detonation. Guess what? your fuel pump and injectors have duty cycles too. If you keep maxing it out, it will die very prematurely.

I don't know why you want louder engine blip sounds. Do you mean the louder pressure blow off from the blow off valve for the turbo when you shift? You need a blow off valve for that if you want real sound.

The problem with these tunes are that it significantly decrease your engine, turbo and transmission life span. They even listed a link to life span vs temperature. You may think "well mine is only +60whp on max so it should be ok". Yeah and your engine is also significantly hotter when you push the boost without upgrades to cool it down. Your engine deals with the extra torque at the low end and creates more heat. You can't escape the inevitable with these wild tunes. This is why NOBODY recommends buying a modified cars. If it's your daily driver, I highly advise against it.

I've modified a lot of cars from Honda Prelude VTEC H22A to supercharged Mustang Cobras and 3000GT VR4 twin turbo. There is only one thing that's true. You gotta pay to play. If you think adding power is that cheap, then why wouldn't manufacturers do it and advertise how much better it is than the competition? I promise you that aiming for such high numbers without the correct mods to keep it safe, then you're going to be unpleasantly surprised. You can get safe and reliable power but it will cost money.

That is all I have to say about this. There's no point in continuing this discussion because I feel you are dead set on doing this. You probably want affirmation and the only ones that will give you that are those that are willing to take the risks or does not know everything he/she needs to know. Good luck modding.

[Bmw doubles]

Originally Posted by 493263

There is only one thing that's true. You gotta pay to play. If you think adding power is that cheap, then why wouldn't manufacturers do it and advertise how much better it is than the competition? I promise you that aiming for such high numbers without the correct mods to keep it safe, then you're going to be unpleasantly surprised. You can get safe and reliable power but it will cost money.

He's right snowmuch
"You have to pay to play". My 120wtq gains have already cost me my clutch. The 100hp in my dyno is delta gains. The top end suffers because of air limitations in relations to the stock turbo. You have to perform significant upgrades to achieve 100whp across the band.

Now all that said the power I have now is extreme, but again if you want a real 400whp car you're going to need a turbo upgrade with supporting mods.

[snowmuch]

Thanks for sharing all those useful information!