[delvek]

So, I pull up to my favorite gas station today and they have changed their gas to e10! What the hell is this, why cant everything just stay simple. Now I got some knob forcing different (maybe crappy) gas on me. While I will be the first to admit my research is just beginning, I thought I would see if anyone is aware of e10 and its quality and compatibility to high performance V8?

As for today, I was in a 528 loaner, but nevertheless, I went to a different gas station!

[ibimmer954]

E10 is all we get in California. Been running it for years on my BMWs. Some people blame the HPFP failures on the E10, but I haven't had an issue yet on my 335i or 535i.

[EBRSKIH]

Wth is e10..is that like octane level 93?

[delvek]

e10 or any e is something you should avoid. I have come to this determination in my basic level of research. As usual its crappy fuel in the name of green grass. Stuff is at the minimum suggested to give fuel line problems, etc so with that I am not going near it.

Luckily I have regular fuel alternatives available.

[ibimmer954]

Originally Posted by EBRSKIH

Wth is e10..is that like octane level 93?

E10 means gas with 10% ethanol. As opposed to E85 available in some parts of the U.S. 85% ethanol, aka "Flex Fuel".

E10 is the standard in California, with 91 being the highest widely available octane rating. It sucks.

[JOHNBMWM5]

The 550i M Sport RECOMMENDS 95 RON fuel, NOT high octain 98/100 RON fuel. So don't wast your money putting the top grade stuff in it will not improve anything.
Open your fuel flap and read whats written inside.
I contacted BMW on this point and they confirmed it's no M3 engine and does not need 99 Ron Fuel.

I get 28 MPG (Brim to Brim) from mine mostly open road driving with some town thrown in, and blasting on the odd clear stretch , that's great I think.
PS) that E10 shite is not recommended either.

[delvek]

My 550 is usually spent at minimum 100mph so fuel economy is not a factor. I hear you on the 95 RON but 98 RON would not be a bad thing, if anything it could have a smidgen of goodness. On my last 550 I would get 98 RON but at least 95 RON.

eCrap is shite! I am actually offended that someone had the nerve to bring it to my local station causing me to have to research and hence learning that there is shite being pushed in my community. Hmm ... thinking of a slogan ... this is your brain on crack = this is your car on eCrap.

[The German]

Since two weeks I put 98 RON in my 550i. Because the consumption is about 5 % higer with E10 and the price for 95 RON is currently the same as for 98 RON.
Btw the performance (407 hp) of the 550i refers to the use of RON 98 (and all other F10 as well).

[delvek]

Originally Posted by The German

Btw the performance (407 hp) of the 550i is refers to the use of RON 98 (and all other F10 as well).

Yea, I havent looked into it much but 4.4L V8, wouldnt feel comfortable unless no choice in running anything less then 98 RON. I mean, why would 95 be better then 98 RON?

[The German]

E10 and E5 (the old one) are both RON 95. As I understood you are always using E5 (Super) in the past.
Because I don't want to use E10, I switched to RON 98 (Super Plus), because the consumption is less compared with E10 and the car has more power.
E10 is currently 5 cents cheaper than RON 98 which is about 3 % but the consumption is about 5 % higher. In this case RON 98 is cheaper!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by The German

Since two weeks I put 98 RON in my 550i. Because the consumption is about 5 % higer with E10 and the price for 95 RON is currently the same as for 98 RON.
Btw the performance (407 hp) of the 550i is refers to the use of RON 98 (and all other F10 as well).

Just where does it say that in the manual?.
It even refers too 95 RON inside the fuel cap on the car wakey wakey.

[delvek]

I dont recall my previous 550i ever referring to 95 RON inside the fuel cap, I will be certain to look when I take delivery again. I will check the 528i loaner in the morning.

Either way, I see it as better for the engine, performance, and I guess efficiency.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by delvek

I dont recall my previous 550i ever referring to 95 RON inside the fuel cap, I will be certain to look when I take delivery again. I will check the 528i loaner in the morning.

Either way, I see it as better for the engine, performance, and I guess efficiency.

The E60 550i needed 98 Ron this engine according to BMW does not and it's stated inside the fuel cap on the car.
If my car needed 98 I would use 98.

[delvek]

I totally understand you Jon, I just don't recall seeing that. I never checked what fuel grade to use because I would ONLY use the highest I can get. Once I get my new 550i I will be checking the fuel cap to see, but, irregardless, my 550i will get 98 RON unless there is a specific reason not to (other then its not necessary, which I don't agree with, kind of like the oil change debate).

You know, I bought a 550, OF COURSE I am going to have the "more is better" philosophy, who buys a 550 and doesn't?!?!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by delvek

I totally understand you Jon, I just don't recall seeing that. I never checked what fuel grade to use because I would ONLY use the highest I can get. Once I get my new 550i I will be checking the fuel cap to see, but, irregardless, my 550i will get 98 RON unless there is a specific reason not to (other then its not necessary, which I don't agree with, kind of like the oil change debate).

You know, I bought a 550, OF COURSE I am going to have the "more is better" philosophy, who buys a 550 and doesn't?!?!

Credit to you, I asked BMW about the use of petrol as on my UK sticker it said ROZ/ RON 95 premium, minimum 91 and in small print says E10 can be used (i just checked).
My fuel figures are 28.5 MPG at the moment so the car must like this stuff.
I am using the new Shell fuel and BP.

[The German]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Just where does it say that in the manual?.
It even refers too 95 RON inside the fuel cap on the car wakey wakey.

Take a look in the broshure if you got one. In a footnote is written, that the consumption and the performance refer to 98 RON.
I can send you a scan of a german one if you are able to read it. Please let me know!
Of course in the manual they wrote that 95 RON is needed. I think it is somethink like a marketing trick!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by The German

Take a look in the broshure if you got one. In a footnote is written, that the consumption and the performance refer to 98 RON.
I can send you a scan of a german one if you are able to read it. Please let me know!
Of course in the manual they wrote that 95 RON is needed. I think it is somethink like a marketing trick!

A marketing trick yea well they are up to all sorts of tricks now.

[JOHNBMWM5]

OK I just re-read the Owners Hand book and this is ALL it says about fuels; "It is recommended to use unleaded premium grade petrol with 95 ron. Unleaded fuel qualities with 91ron and higher are permitted".
It does not say "Required".
Prohaps UK 95 Ron is better than other countries 98 Ron fuels!!!!

[delvek]

The way I read that is that 91 RON is "acceptable", 95 RON is "recommend". 98 RON isnt mentioned but should be understood to be "optimum although not needed". Again this is most likely a result of BMW trying to come across more cost conscious. Seriously though, why would you put a lower quality product in such a high performing car? At 130mph I want the "optimum" fuel, not the "acceptable" or "recommended".

If I was concerned about these costs or mpg's I would've bought one of the others and joined the mpg thread!

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by delvek

The way I read that is that 91 RON is "acceptable", 95 RON is "recommend". 98 RON isnt mentioned but should be understood to be "optimum although not needed". Again this is most likely a result of BMW trying to come across more cost conscious. Seriously though, why would you put a lower quality product in such a high performing car? At 130mph I want the "optimum" fuel, not the "acceptable" or "recommended".

If I was concerned about these costs or mpg's I would've bought one of the others and joined the mpg thread!

Is there any evidence that the higher grade fuel actually increases performance or decreases consumption?

ECU's are programmed to advance timing, change fuel mapping, etc. but all cars are different. Some will run "better" or "worse" depending on the Octane rating of the fuel, and some won't.

For instance, in my Volvo R, it only recommends 91 (all numbers I give are R+M/2). But it won't make it's full advertised power on anything less than 93. And if you mix with 100 to make say 95 or even higher, it will take advantage of it.

My Acura is rated for 91 octane. But running it on 89 gives NO detrimental effect on power or mileage. I have tracked it, and I bring it to WOT (hey, it's a V-TEC engine!) fairly often so it'd be noticeable if there was a change.

My Jeep with the 4.7L V8 was rated to run on 87...but it ran like crap on it. Pinged, knocked and hesitated. Ran smooth as silk on 89 though.

There is nothing "better" about running a higher octane fuel if the ECU cannot compensate and take advantage of it. There is no more power in the fuel, it is simply more resistant to detonation. If the engine parameters can make use of that higher resistance to detonation, that's great. If not, you're just wasting your money. Granted, it's not a lot. Last I checked in my Acura, switching from 93 to 89 was going to save us about $100 / year. And that was at 15,000 miles and 17 MPG. The difference between 89 and 93 here has been hovering about a dime. But it is something.

[delvek]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Granted, it's not a lot. Last I checked in my Acura, switching from 93 to 89 was going to save us about $100 / year. And that was at 15,000 miles and 17 MPG. The difference between 89 and 93 here has been hovering about a dime. But it is something.

I have no evidence, most things I do I do with no hard evidence. For a buck or two a tank, who cares? At the minimum, like I said, it does nothing, but between you and me, I find that hard to believe.

[727jbh]

Originally Posted by ibimmer346

E10 means gas with 10% ethanol. As opposed to E85 available in some parts of the U.S. 85% ethanol, aka "Flex Fuel".

E10 is the standard in California, with 91 being the highest widely available octane rating. It sucks.

E85 is 15% ethanol not 85% ethanol. E10 is the standard for Florida with 93 being the highest octane level for Supreme.