[tomegun]

Oh, here is one thing that throws a monkey wrench into the finished value pursuit: the guy has the minimum coverage allowed in Nevada. That being the case, I have been told $10k is the most I can get from the insurance company and I would have to go after the driver for anything else.

Since the other driver was listed at fault, is there a financial reason why my insurance company would not want to total the car? My thought and hope is that the adjuster is just working on getting the car valued to make it a slam dunk.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Grover432

Forget that - I'd like to know how a door and quarter panel takes 2 months to fix?

I wouldn't be surprised if crash parts were still in short supply, after BMW's parts inventory management system SNAFU.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by JBHall

Brought my 2011 550 in today for service under warranty. The shop (dealer) called several hours later to report that the technician driving my car to determine the problem was broadsided by another vehicle. Very apologetic, but it could be up to 2 mos until I get my car back! (new door and quarterpanel - they don't believe suspension damage) Yes, they will pay for a loaner, but I assume the damage will be substantial. How do I negotiate for depreciation? The car only had 30k miles on it. How to protect myself here?

There's no magic. You need to point out that this accident diminishes the value of your car, and you are entitled to damages to compensate for that. There's no formula ti figure the amount, which is both a disadvantage and an advantage for you.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by raleedy

There's no magic. You need to point out that this accident diminishes the value of your car, and you are entitled to damages to compensate for that. There's no formula ti figure the amount, which is both a disadvantage and an advantage for you.

I think it is a question of contract law/legislation - in other words what does the insurance contract cover and is the insurer obligated by the contract/legislation to pay out for a diminished value? There has been allot of writing on this. I think I read that there are only a few states that mandate diminished value in auto insurance.

In Canada there is no coverage for diminished value in any province, despite legislation in almost every province requiring a seller to advise a purchaser of any accidents on the car for sale.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by Grover432

I think it is a question of contract law/legislation - in other words what does the insurance contract cover and is the insurer obligated by the contract/legislation to pay out for a diminished value? There has been allot of writing on this. I think I read that there are only a few states that mandate diminished value in auto insurance.

In Canada there is no coverage for diminished value in any province, despite legislation in almost every province requiring a seller to advise a purchaser of any accidents on the car for sale.

Well, it's an industry, all right. Just Google "diminished value". There may be statutory law or insurance regulation from place to place, but the underlying claim is a plain old tort claim for damages that may or may not be covered by insurance.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by raleedy

Well, it's an industry, all right. Just Google "diminished value". There may be statutory law or insurance regulation from place to place, but the underlying claim is a plain old tort claim for damages that may or may not be covered by insurance.

If the other party is at fault and the area isn't regulated by legislation, you might be able to sue, but if you are out $10,000, its hard to see the gain after paying your lawyer and waiting 3 years for the case to resolve. In Canada we can get "costs" if we are successful but rarely actual solicitor costs, so the cost of winning can exceed what you recover.

[skalberti]

If the at fault driver only has $10k worth of coverage, your under insured motorist would kick in and pay the difference. If you don't have under insured coverage you'll have to sue the at fault driver to recover the costs over $10k. As far as diminished value, your insurance company won't pay you that. Only the at fault persons insurance will. So for diminished value you WILL have to sue the at fault driver to get that. In Arkansas the min amount of insurance you have to carry is $25k. My claim came to $24k and some change. I had $7k loss of value because I had documentation when I traded the vehicle in after it was repaired. I turned around and sued the woman and got $5K back. That's the most you can sue for in small claims in Arkansas. They need to change these minimum insurance laws.

[ezmaass]

I agree that the minimum insurance laws really need to change. If you're going to be on the road, you need to be insured for what damage you can do - and considering there's no short supply of expensive cars to hit out there, $10k just seems like a joke. Anything made within the last few years will be worth more - including any run-of-the-mill Honda, Toyota, Ford, or GM.

Insurance is one of the best investments you can make. As much as it sucks to pay for it, there's a peace of mind that can't be replaced. I max out my auto insurance coverage, and then I carry a larger multi-million dollar umbrella policy on-top, which will extend auto, home, and various other non-auto/non-home scenarios.

If you're driving a nice-looking BMW and happen to hit someone, watch out. Suddenly there will be "pain and suffering" and "distress" and all sorts of other ailments. Lawyers, especially, see $$$ signs. If you have a nice house, live in a nice neighborhood, etc - same thing. Thankfully I've never had to deal with anything like this, but I've watched it happen to a number of friends, and it was then that I decided I'm ALWAYS going to max out my insurance (it doesn't cost that much more) and carry an umbrella policy.

A friend at work (well off) was sued by a guy who was working on his property. The guy decided to wander off on the property and ended up hurting himself (nothing too serious, but enough to take a trip to the hospital). Despite having been snooping around and nowhere near the work-site of what he was there to do, the guy sued for $10M - for what was likely a week of some pain and suffering, no permanent damage, etc. Why so much? Well, he and the lawyer looked around - nice big house, nice cars, the guy was well off... sure, $10M it is! Thankfully he had a $10M umbrella. The process was stressful and took months to resolve, but at-least he was financially covered. The insurance company offered the guy a small settlement to go away.

Anyway, sorry for the long tangent here! Point being, yes, I think the auto insurance laws need to be revisited - $10k of property damage is a complete joke. My personal advice is to max out whatever insurance you can carry. A $1M or $2M umbrella is also a decent investment - shouldn't cost more than a $300 - $500 per year, and it's a small price to pay if you ever end up being sued. The way I look at it, anyone can screw up. I think I'm a pretty careful driver, and I have a great driving history. But there can always be that split second where you just lose concentration or do something stupid. The property damage will be the least of your concern if you actually end up hurting someone.

[tomegun]

36 month lease:
9 days driving a perfect BMW
2-4 months driving a Ford Taurus while paying for a 5-series
The rest driving a car with extensive repairs

I will probably sue the other driver. At a minimum, he will think about it when he looks at his credit report.

[pillpusher84]

Originally Posted by tomegun

36 month lease:
9 days driving a perfect BMW
2-4 months driving a Ford Taurus while paying for a 5-series
The rest driving a car with extensive repairs

I will probably sue the other driver. At a minimum, he will think about it when he looks at his credit report.

what a shame! sorry to hear ... so i'm assuming they won't total it?

[tomegun]

Nope. The very first thing I am going to do when it is fixed is go in and get something on paper that says how much the damage diminished the value. I have to also find an appraisal company so I have two source documents.

Nevada has a statute that says a car must have damage equal to or greater than 65% of the value - they are valuing it at $58,000. They have to exclude things like paint and safety equipment (air bags) when getting to 65%.

[raleedy]

I think you will have a hard time collecting for diminished value of a car you don't own.

[pillpusher84]

Originally Posted by raleedy

I think you will have a hard time collecting for diminished value of a car you don't own.

Not when BMW will be looking to collect on the dismissed value from the OP when he turns in his lease

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by pillpusher84

Not when BMW will be looking to collect on the dismissed value from the OP when he turns in his lease

You're making stuff up. BMW leases require return of the car in good condition, reasonable wear and tear excepted. Physical repair satisfies this requirement. In a closed-end lease, such as BMW's, the lessor bears the risk of loss of maket value. BMW leases also include gap coverage, to cover the case where insurance proceeds from a loss do not satisfy the financial obligation of the lease. The net of all that means that the lessee has no economic loss from "diminished value".

[tomegun]

I am not trying to benefit from this at all; I don't want anything other than out of pocket expenses (rental after my insurance stops paying) and possible $$$ for the day my wife had to take off.

Anything I would get in diminished value would hopefully be enough to get out of the car immediately and into another BMW.

[pillpusher84]

Originally Posted by raleedy

You're making stuff up. BMW leases require return of the car in good condition, reasonable wear and tear excepted. Physical repair satisfies this requirement. In a closed-end lease, such as BMW's, the lessor bears the risk of loss of maket value. BMW leases also include gap coverage, to cover the case where insurance proceeds from a loss do not satisfy the financial obligation of the lease. The net of all that means that the lessee has no economic loss from "diminished value".

I'm not making stuff up ... I'm being realistic ... You are leasing the car with the expectation of returning the thing in the same condition you received it in. They will charge for excessive damages ... I have never experienced this situation, thank god, however I could see BMW seeking payment from this individual for excessive damages in this case.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I am not trying to benefit from this at all; I don't want anything other than out of pocket expenses (rental after my insurance stops paying) and possible $$$ for the day my wife had to take off.

Anything I would get in diminished value would hopefully be enough to get out of the car immediately and into another BMW.

What you might want to do -- assuming you have a BMW lease -- is get the current payoff amount (you can find it on line), then get a quote for selling the car to a dealer or auction house, and make an insurance claim for the difference. You'll get an argument that at least some of the difference is depreciation unrelated to the accident, but who knows? You might come out whole.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by pillpusher84

I'm not making stuff up ... I'm being realistic ... You are leasing the car with the expectation of returning the thing in the same condition you received it in. They will charge for excessive damages ... I have never experienced this situation, thank god, however I could see BMW seeking payment from this individual for excessive damages in this case.

Read your own post. You made it up!

[skalberti]

Originally Posted by raleedy

I think you will have a hard time collecting for diminished value of a car you don't own.

Not true at all! After my X5 was in a wreck, I traded it in for a new one. With the trade in documents I could show exactly what my loss of value was. I had to sue the at fault driver, but then their insurance paid part and the at fault driver part of a total of $5K. My actual loss of value was $7K, but since I went to small claims court, the max I could sue for was $5K.

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by skalberti

Not true at all! After my X5 was in a wreck, I traded it in for a new one. With the trade in documents I could show exactly what my loss of value was. I had to sue the at fault driver, but then their insurance paid part and the at fault driver part of a total of $5K. My actual loss of value was $7K, but since I went to small claims court, the max I could sue for was $5K.

Right. By cashing out the lease you became the owner who had the loss.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by pillpusher84

I'm not making stuff up ... I'm being realistic ... You are leasing the car with the expectation of returning the thing in the same condition you received it in. They will charge for excessive damages ... I have never experienced this situation, thank god, however I could see BMW seeking payment from this individual for excessive damages in this case.

I agree with Raleedy, but will go further. You don't know what you are talking about. BMW will insist their car goes to an approved repair centre and will accept the car back without penalty at the end of the lease. There is zero issue for the OP. The only way diminished value is even an issue is if the OP planned to buy the vehicle at lease end because if a residual that was lower than market value and he had originally intended to buy it out and flip it. In most cases BMW sets the residual higher than the car will be worth at lease end to keep the payments low and help move cars, so many people just turn their cars in. With a very low lease rate, this is but another reason to lease.

[Grover432]

Originally Posted by skalberti

Not true at all! After my X5 was in a wreck, I traded it in for a new one. With the trade in documents I could show exactly what my loss of value was. I had to sue the at fault driver, but then their insurance paid part and the at fault driver part of a total of $5K. My actual loss of value was $7K, but since I went to small claims court, the max I could sue for was $5K.

But you owned your X5, this vehicle is leased.