[gatoman39]

Looks sweet. As far as previous post arguing comparing this to a 550i is not apples to apples. They share the most important thing. Price.

[SleepTight]

Originally Posted by gatoman39

As far as previous post arguing comparing this to a 550i is not apples to apples. They share the most important thing. Price.

This.

Note also that BMW is going to be very surprised to learn that the F10 550i is not a sports sedan ("saloon" if you must):

The BMW 5 Series is the benchmark for mid-size luxury-sports sedans and the 2011 model continues the sporty handling flair of a BMW 3 Series, while picking up as much room inside of the last-generation BMW 7 Series, especially in the formerly cramped rear seat. BMW worked out some of the design quirks on the 2003-2009 model and it may be the handsomest BMW sedan you can buy today

BMW of North America
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...-5-Series.aspx

[lindros2]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

LOL! Way to compare a stripper version of a different model to the top-line sedan Cadillac makes. As I said, the F10 interior is superior to the V, but the V interior is infinitely superior to the baseline SRX.

Here it is with the sapele wood option:

The interior may not be to everybody's taste, but it's way beyond the baseline SRX's interior.

I repeat:

I've driven (over) 25,000 miles in CTS's (albeit not many in the CTS-V, but I'll get to that in a moment), and it's the same crap in the interior. Leather, suede, wood, whatever - it's lipstick on the pig.

Even in Europe, would a 5-series interior look anywhere near as cheap as the CTS or SRX?

Second case in point: the CTS full-length sunroof uses a simple (CHEAP) rolling cover which doesn't even block out all the light (much less summer heat). Compare that with the BMW design - hard cover for the full-length sunroof in the X5.

Back to the CTS-V. I had the rare opportunity to drive it at the Monticello Driving Club in 2008. For those who want to compare it with ANY German sedan, do a back-to-back for yourself. The manual transmission was horrible, steering was okay (wheel was large Cadillac spec albeit with thick rim), and the general driving feeling was on-par with the Lexus IS-F (which I had driven on a track the weekend prior).

It is no 5-series.

[faarcanal]

Long time BMW 5 series owner and the F10 has lost my interest. It did remind me of a 7 series ie less dynamic, less fun to drive. I think BMW have miss read the target audience or perhaps thought we were getting older and needed something a little more sedate.

So now the problem what to buy? Keep e60 a few more years, buy XF Jag, buy M3???

[gatoman39]

Originally Posted by faarcanal

Long time BMW 5 series owner and the F10 has lost my interest. It did remind me of a 7 series ie less dynamic, less fun to drive. I think BMW have miss read the target audience or perhaps thought we were getting older and needed something a little more sedate.

So now the problem what to buy? Keep e60 a few more years, buy XF Jag, buy M3???

I think you're looking for the M5 as the target, at least for people who read this site. Otherwise your reasonable options in the same class are:
Mercedes E 350 - Weak engine, odd styling, 60k and no leather?
Audi A6 - New model on the horizon.
Acura RL -U.G.L.Y., you aint got no alibi....
Jaguar XF - You think Bimmers need lots of maintenance, you aint seen nothin yet.
Infiniti M - I like the way these look, try one out. I thought the ride was super harsh, but that's my taste.
Lexus GS - Way too soft
American cars - No disrespect, but I'll pass.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by faarcanal

Long time BMW 5 series owner and the F10 has lost my interest. It did remind me of a 7 series ie less dynamic, less fun to drive. I think BMW have miss read the target audience or perhaps thought we were getting older and needed something a little more sedate.

So now the problem what to buy? Keep e60 a few more years, buy XF Jag, buy M3???

You are suggesting that the Jag XF is a superior car. Which XF have you test driven?

One can't reasonably be comparing a 5 series to a 3 series, totally different cars and for different needs.

[SleepTight]

Originally Posted by lindros2

Second case in point: the CTS full-length sunroof uses a simple (CHEAP) rolling cover which doesn't even block out all the light (much less summer heat). Compare that with the BMW design - hard cover for the full-length sunroof in the X5.

You are right, the CTS-V's sunroof shade is not very good. I can't think of a more important criteria to evaluate a super car's performance. That must be why all the car magazines include a special category in their road tests for "sunroof shade performance."

Back to actually driving the CTS-V. It's funny that you mention Monticello in 2008, did you drive the V during the Cadillac Driving Lab event or the Cadillac Challenge?

And while the perceived feel of a car on the track is inherently subjective; on the track, results are what matters. Here's an unbiased report of the V vs. M5 on the Monticello Motor Club track in July 2008. Anybody want to guess who wins?:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...008-bmw-m5-smg

Once again, people should drive both cars and make up their own minds. That is, of course, unless you choose your cars based solely on the the quality of the sunroof shade.

[bobbyd1961]

Originally Posted by SleepTight

Most of you know me. I'm a BMW guy and I have been an active member of this forum for over a year. In fact, I just bought my wife a new X5. I was really looking forward to the F10 and I extended my lease on my 2008 BMW 535xi for four months so that I could get the new 5-Series Since I wanted something sportier than my 535, I had decided on a 550 as my replacement.

Then I test drove the new 550. It's a 750i. It is not a sports sedan.

The next day I walked into a Cadillac dealer and test drove a CTS-V. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the V, it looks very similar to the plain vanilla Cadillac CTS but it has a supercharged Corvette engine good for 556 horsepower, a beefed up transmission and Cadillac's proprietary magnetic ride control. It was designed to beat the E60 based M5 and most every car magazine agrees that it does. It stickers in the high $60s with a fully optioned up model at around $71,000 just like a certain other V8 sedan.

Out of deference to the fact that I am on a BMW forum, I will not go on and on about the CTS-V beyond saying that I never thought about going back to the 550 and immediately began my quest for a fully optioned up V to purchase.

I don't want to stir the pot and I'm sure I'm going to pick up my share of flames for this, but for those of you who are dissatisfied with the F10's skewing away from the sports side of the equation toward the comfort side, you really owe it to yourself to test drive the CTS-V.

you should have drove the M3 sedan. a whole lot better looking and better performance. just check out how mike cooper slaughtered the ctsv at the challange. a big mistake buying a bucket of bolts

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

you should have drove the M3 sedan. a whole lot better looking and better performance. just check out how mike cooper slaughtered the ctsv at the challange. a big mistake buying a bucket of bolts

Or(as I already stated in this thread) the C63....

Cheers
Robin

[SleepTight]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1961

you should have drove the M3 sedan. a whole lot better looking and better performance. just check out how mike cooper slaughtered the ctsv at the challange. a big mistake buying a bucket of bolts

Er, you know that Mike Cooper posts here at M3Post.com right?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6122007

While GM's professional drivers delivered much faster laps behind the wheel of the CTS-V at Monticello than did Cooper in his M3, Cooper did a phenomenal job as an amateur driver, beating a number of amoutomotive journalists driving CTS-Vs (though I would hardly call beating a CTS-V by 0.73 seconds in a three minute time trial a "slaughter"). Since we all agree that Mike Cooper is a man to be respected, here are his comments on the CTS-V, which he subsequently got to drive on the same day:

I got to drive the CTSV with two other people in the car, an added 300 lbs. I pulled out of the pits and was impressed by the power. Then coming out of turn 1 in 2nd gear I was really impressed by the power since in my car I had to use third and the M lacks in torque and overall grunt to be honest. I come up to a few turns after that and then go down the back straight and was VERY impressed by the brakes, they inspired a lot of confidence and as a driver thats what you want. Every second of the two laps I got in the car impressed me the brakes and the power mostly, the handling was right their with that of the M3. I would love to get some timed laps in the CTSV at Monticello Motor Club.

I can say one thing for sure I got to drive the CTSV and the M3 is NOT the faster car on the track. I am hoping to get some timed laps in the CTSV on monticello in the near future.

Oh, and one more thing. The M3 Sedan does not have "better performance" by the numbers than the CTS-V. Here's Car and Driver's Short Take Results:

Cadillac CTS-V
Zero to 60 mph: 3.9 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 8.7 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 14.8 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 4.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.2 sec @ 119 mph
Top speed (redline limited): 176 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 154 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.89

BMW M3 Sedan
Zero to 60 mph: 4.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.8 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 24.9 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.6 sec @ 113 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 161 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 161 ft
Roadholding, 328-ft-dia skidpad: 0.95 g

[lindros2]

I wait with baited breath on how much SleepTight gets for his CTS-V when he tries to sell it.

"But Kelly Blue Book said [this] !!!!"

[HaloEye]

just curious why people talk about resale value. what if he wanted to keep it? it is a $65k high performance car, how bad could it be anyways?

[faarcanal]

Originally Posted by bm323

You are suggesting that the Jag XF is a superior car. Which XF have you test driven?

One can't reasonably be comparing a 5 series to a 3 series, totally different cars and for different needs.

For me the F10 is so conservative and disappointing, I am struggling to find a new car alternative. Have not driven anything else yet.

You are right the 3 series is a totally different car, that is what might win me over. I do not want an old mans car to drive around in (I am old, fat and bald as it is).

[HaloEye]

no offense but i think older guys look strange in the 3 series, same thing for the MB C class. Get the convertible

[faarcanal]

A convertible just removes the mystery, at least in a sedan I might not be fat or bald and I might not be listening to ABBA.

[HaloEye]

haha bout you would look cool with a twenty something year old hottie in the passenger side with her hair blowing in the wind

[faarcanal]

Originally Posted by HaloEye

haha bout you would look cool with a twenty something year old hottie in the passenger side with her hair blowing in the wind

Yup

[Alessandro]

At least people can control the temp. control in the CTSV with their knees

[MI6]

SleepTight- did you consider the 550i 6-speed???

To me this represents the best of both worlds. True, the old E60 550i with the sport Auto was a BEAST and sounded great, but I have a feeling the new F10 with the 6-speed may be a winner.

Also, the other problem is exhaust note. It took BMW until the E60 LCI facelift to get it right and the 08-10's sound very, very good. Before then the 550i exhaust note was weeeeeeeak, to say the least.

Unfortunately, the new F10 seems to be repeating the same pattern as the E60 and the exhaust note may not get fixed until the F10 LCI in 2015.

Ouch........

P.S. Did the car you drove come with the Dynamic pack?

[SleepTight]

I did not consider the 550i six speed. I have a Porsche Cayman with a six-speed manual that I play with on the weekends, but since I spend a significant amount of time in traffic, I prefer an automatic for my daily driver. Note that the CTS-V is also available with a six speed manual which is a very popular option among the weekend racing set. You lose the V automatic's remote start feature but you gain 191 mph in top speed vs. 175 for the automatic.

I agree with you on the exhaust note on the 550 as well, the twin turbo V8 makes almost no noise and what sound it does makes is not very exciting.

P.S. The F10 550 I drove did have the dynamic handling package. The 550i is a fine car with some very advanced technology and impressive fit and finish, but BMW has been pretty open about pushing the F10 more toward the comfort side of the equation rather than the sport side. BMW knows their own market better than I, but personally I'm looking for a sportier sedan. If the new M5 had been out already, I'm sure the choice would have been much more difficult.

[Soon ExAudi Guy]

I motion that this topic has been beaten to death!

[srt8/bmw]

Originally Posted by lindros2

I wait with baited breath on how much SleepTight gets for his CTS-V when he tries to sell it.

"But Kelly Blue Book said [this] !!!!"

actually--they are grabbing up used ones quick on the forums, and at better than blue book. Car seems to be doing really well on resale value.

fyi...