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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications N63 Alpina Turbos Installed
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      03-27-2016, 09:53 PM   #1
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N63 Alpina Turbos Installed

Finally got around to installing my rebuilt Alpina turbos this weekend. Just wanted to share the experience in case anyone else decides to go this route.

I bought the turbos for $500 from an E30 forum, in "working when pulled" condition from someone at a dealership. After receiving the turbos, I noticed that one had very bad axial shaft play (I measured .005"). I contacted 5 companies that rebuilt turbos and only one was up to the task, Pure turbos. I paid a little over $1000 for the rebuild. I was very happy with their work besides the fact they forgot to mail them back to me on time, and then 2-3 weeks later when I emailed asking the status they never responded and just put them in the mail.

My parts list from BMW for the install:
(sorry, lost the description for what they are, but they are all the crush washers/gaskets you would need)
07119963201 x8
11428624158 x2
07119963072 x4
11657577018 x2
11627576991 x2


After receiving:
View post on imgur.com



I started the install at 12:30 in a friend's garage. Airboxes removed:
View post on imgur.com


Stock turbos with heat shields removed:
View post on imgur.com


Stock intake:
View post on imgur.com


Turbos removed:
View post on imgur.com


View post on imgur.com


View post on imgur.com


Surprisingly, my old turbos with 63k on the clock had extremely minimal shaft play. I'm impressed.

Old vs new:
View post on imgur.com


Visually, they're exactly the same from the housings. If you look at the compressor wheel you can see they have an obviously different design.

New turbos installed:
View post on imgur.com


Cranked the car in small intervals without starting to prime the turbos then fired her up. Ran perfect from the start and no issues.

After a test drive...I'm moderately disappointed. I can feel an improvement on the low end, in comfort mode the torque is hitting a lot earlier than I normally would expect it to. On the high end...I don't feel much of a change. I'm on the basic BMS S2 settings still, and have stock downpipes, so I feel like if I turn up the boost/aggressiveness I would notice it more. I do think these would make a huge difference on a TU where a flash tune would be possible. Also, it's worth noting that I was planning on installing an intake so I left the airboxes open essentially as a hot air intake. With the intakes installed I may notice a much bigger difference.

Overall, the install wasn't that difficult, but a lot of the time is spent cursing and trying to access the bottom v-bands and oil drain lines. I was able to finish in about 5-6 hours.

If you're thinking about going this route and have any questions let me know!
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      03-27-2016, 10:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPro View Post
Finally got around to installing my rebuilt Alpina turbos this weekend. Just wanted to share the experience in case anyone else decides to go this route.

I bought the turbos for $500 from an E30 forum, in "working when pulled" condition from someone at a dealership. After receiving the turbos, I noticed that one had very bad axial shaft play (I measured .005"). I contacted 5 companies that rebuilt turbos and only one was up to the task, Pure turbos. I paid a little over $1000 for the rebuild. I was very happy with their work besides the fact they forgot to mail them back to me on time, and then 2-3 weeks later when I emailed asking the status they never responded and just put them in the mail.

My parts list from BMW for the install:
(sorry, lost the description for what they are, but they are all the crush washers/gaskets you would need)
07119963201 x8
11428624158 x2
07119963072 x4
11657577018 x2
11627576991 x2


After receiving:
View post on imgur.com



I started the install at 12:30 in a friend's garage. Airboxes removed:
View post on imgur.com


Stock turbos with heat shields removed:
View post on imgur.com


Stock intake:
View post on imgur.com


Turbos removed:
View post on imgur.com


View post on imgur.com


View post on imgur.com


Surprisingly, my old turbos with 63k on the clock had extremely minimal shaft play. I'm impressed.

Old vs new:
View post on imgur.com


Visually, they're exactly the same from the housings. If you look at the compressor wheel you can see they have an obviously different design.

New turbos installed:
View post on imgur.com


Cranked the car in small intervals without starting to prime the turbos then fired her up. Ran perfect from the start and no issues.

After a test drive...I'm moderately disappointed. I can feel an improvement on the low end, in comfort mode the torque is hitting a lot earlier than I normally would expect it to. On the high end...I don't feel much of a change. I'm on the basic BMS S2 settings still, and have stock downpipes, so I feel like if I turn up the boost/aggressiveness I would notice it more. I do think these would make a huge difference on a TU where a flash tune would be possible. Also, it's worth noting that I was planning on installing an intake so I left the airboxes open essentially as a hot air intake. With the intakes installed I may notice a much bigger difference.

Overall, the install wasn't that difficult, but a lot of the time is spent cursing and trying to access the bottom v-bands and oil drain lines. I was able to finish in about 5-6 hours.

If you're thinking about going this route and have any questions let me know!
i think your biggest draw back is stock down pipes and exhaust.
You need less back pressure and crank those suckers up in boost.
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      03-27-2016, 10:14 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badblack550xi View Post
i think your biggest draw back is stock down pipes and exhaust.
You need less back pressure and crank those suckers up in boost.
I definitely agree. Sadly I have to do emissions within 8 months, but after I plan to get some downpipes. And currently I have the stock mufflers removed, so it should be pretty damn free flowing after I get the DPs.

I've also been silently hoping we get a flash option for the DPs but I know that's never going to happen
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      03-28-2016, 08:55 AM   #4
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yea man I bet this turbos on a TU would be insane, Id like to see what the TU engine can take.
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      03-28-2016, 11:12 AM   #5
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Nice and quick installation. Sadly, the downpipes are not going to help you very much. For sure will see some improvements, but not much. The reason you are disappointed is due to the fact that your DME is not calibrated to run those turbos. The turbo efficiency, turbo curve, volumetric efficiency, wastegate operation and much more are very different on a 550i vs alpina. The sad part is the fact that you can not fix that without a proper reflash and JB4 can not do anything to help it.

Turbo flow characteristic map. Top is 550, lower one is Alpina.



Part of wastegate function. Top is 550, lower one is Alpina.
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      03-28-2016, 07:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
Nice and quick installation. Sadly, the downpipes are not going to help you very much. For sure will see some improvements, but not much. The reason you are disappointed is due to the fact that your DME is not calibrated to run those turbos. The turbo efficiency, turbo curve, volumetric efficiency, wastegate operation and much more are very different on a 550i vs alpina. The sad part is the fact that you can not fix that without a proper reflash and JB4 can not do anything to help it.

Turbo flow characteristic map. Top is 550, lower one is Alpina.



Part of wastegate function. Top is 550, lower one is Alpina.
Yup, wasn't expecting a ton without a proper tune, but was hoping the increased efficiency would maybe yield a little bit faster spool time (which it seems to have done) and maybe some more on the top end (which it definitely didn't).

But wow, are those tables directly from the DME? I'm impressed at the level of complexity that these ECUs have. There's so much more than just igntion/fuel anymore.
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      03-28-2016, 09:58 PM   #7
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Oh yeah, the dme has about 35 of similar maps used just for turbo/waste gate control.
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      03-29-2016, 03:05 PM   #8
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so $1500 all together with no benefits whatsoever? sorry to hear that!
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      03-29-2016, 10:22 PM   #9
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Sleeping giant. Mentioned earlier, couple it with M5 DP's and exhaust. Open the JB S2 to maximum boost with waste gate posotion 1 and pure 100 octane with a can of TORCO and there you got it. 548RWHP
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      03-29-2016, 11:41 PM   #10
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I personally didn't want to bother with any turbo upgrade on my N63 simply for the fact that there is no actual tune available.

No point in adding more air if you can't control it, that's pretty much the bottom line. BMS gets the job done in stock form but it's in no way a 'tune' but a workaround. From what I understand from Terry@BMS is that how the N63 piggyback works is, in the boost on S2 is only going to retard the timing more and cause the computer to make adjustments. Being that the engine/components work more than they actually need to because it's compensating for what is supposedly being 'loss' since it tricks the ECU into thinking it's being 'under-boosted.'

On top of that, I would not run Torco daily. You're better off doing a 40% E85 mix, it's cheaper too.

It's been proven that Torco or any Octane booster has negative effects (research all over the net) while there are no facts regarding E85 usage as long as it doesn't sit in the tank for a long time but that's the same with any fuel.

Last edited by SLVSRFR; 03-30-2016 at 07:10 AM..
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      03-30-2016, 07:01 AM   #11
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MattPro yep definitely gotta get tuned even if you don't get downpipes now or yet, although with flash tune you will pass emissions due to the CEL delete software properly tuned flash.

MissionPerformance correct me if I'm wrong
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      03-30-2016, 07:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBNYC View Post
MattPro yep definitely gotta get tuned even if you don't get downpipes now or yet, although with flash tune you will pass emissions due to the CEL delete software properly tuned flash.

MissionPerformance correct me if I'm wrong
There is no tune for the N63. Only for the N63tu
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      03-30-2016, 10:06 AM   #13
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Yep that is right. Also because these turbos have diverter valve, they won't work on N63tu as plug and play.
If OP want to get rid of them, we will gladly buy those turbos and adapt them to work on Tu since we already have a proper time for those.
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      03-30-2016, 01:36 PM   #14
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It's always great to hear people try new things and it's always a platform for others to follow. This would have been a great upgrade if it worked! Appreciate you trying! I've been contemplating for next year to upgrade my turbos to the Pure2 upgrade and see if MP can tune it? We'll see!
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      03-30-2016, 02:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747flyboy View Post
Sleeping giant. Mentioned earlier, couple it with M5 DP's and exhaust. Open the JB S2 to maximum boost with waste gate posotion 1 and pure 100 octane with a can of TORCO and there you got it. 548RWHP
548 rwhp? I'm not a pro on this stuff, but that sounds like a stretch to me. What I would bet money on is no gains in that situation being contributed to the Alpina turbos. Lastly, even if the car did put down those numbers with the mods you mentioned, the original poster was probably hoping for daily driving power gains, not just when running race fuel.
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      03-30-2016, 06:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
so $1500 all together with no benefits whatsoever? sorry to hear that!
Ha, when you put it like that it sounds a lot more rough

Quote:
Originally Posted by 747flyboy View Post
Sleeping giant. Mentioned earlier, couple it with M5 DP's and exhaust. Open the JB S2 to maximum boost with waste gate posotion 1 and pure 100 octane with a can of TORCO and there you got it. 548RWHP
I've been considering upping my boost a bit, maybe targeting 98 octane with an E85 mix. But nowhere near your levels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BCK2BLN View Post
I personally didn't want to bother with any turbo upgrade on my N63 simply for the fact that there is no actual tune available.

No point in adding more air if you can't control it, that's pretty much the bottom line. BMS gets the job done in stock form but it's in no way a 'tune' but a workaround. From what I understand from Terry@BMS is that how the N63 piggyback works is, in the boost on S2 is only going to retard the timing more and cause the computer to make adjustments. Being that the engine/components work more than they actually need to because it's compensating for what is supposedly being 'loss' since it tricks the ECU into thinking it's being 'under-boosted.'

On top of that, I would not run Torco daily. You're better off doing a 40% E85 mix, it's cheaper too.

It's been proven that Torco or any Octane booster has negative effects (research all over the net) while there are no facts regarding E85 usage as long as it doesn't sit in the tank for a long time but that's the same with any fuel.
Yup, I knew I wouldn't be adding more air/boost, was just hoping to see more increases due to the better design (efficiency) of these turbos. But I bet it would only show as a small increase on the dyno after driving around on these for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionPerformance View Post
Yep that is right. Also because these turbos have diverter valve, they won't work on N63tu as plug and play.
If OP want to get rid of them, we will gladly buy those turbos and adapt them to work on Tu since we already have a proper time for those.
I'm considering that option, I will contact you guys first if I decide to pull them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsturbointeg View Post
It's always great to hear people try new things and it's always a platform for others to follow. This would have been a great upgrade if it worked! Appreciate you trying! I've been contemplating for next year to upgrade my turbos to the Pure2 upgrade and see if MP can tune it? We'll see!
I didn't find a lot of information on these so I wanted to share my experiences, hopefully it'll come in useful to someone in the future. If only I could have a flash tune to go along with them

If you can get a flash tune I would definitely do turbos, it's amazing how much they help on those 6 cyls

Quote:
Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng View Post
548 rwhp? I'm not a pro on this stuff, but that sounds like a stretch to me. What I would bet money on is no gains in that situation being contributed to the Alpina turbos. Lastly, even if the car did put down those numbers with the mods you mentioned, the original poster was probably hoping for daily driving power gains, not just when running race fuel.
Last time I checked his thread I think he was pushing +11psi over stock, where the normal BMS S2 only does +2psi, so I definitely wouldn't doubt it haha. When you're going up in boost that much I bet you would definitely see a little bit more of an increase with these installed since the stock turbos are probably designed to be optimal around stock boost levels.

But yup, running more than 100 octane is pretty crazy for my goals right now haha
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      03-30-2016, 08:17 PM   #17
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By all means, it is all good information. Indeed running pure 100 octane+Torco is not the healthiest thing, however, replacing the original OEM turbos with Alpinas we noticed a yellow like slightly abrasive residue around the turbine and compressor section. This does no harm to the susceptible components with the exception of the O2 sensors, sounds arrogant although is not the intent. Another advantage to the setup is a 3 minute transition from MAP 1 to MAP 0 with JB S2 pr just lower boost when back to 93 Octane pump gas. It is all good....IAG.....
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      03-30-2016, 08:47 PM   #18
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To the guys at Mission Performance,

I am thinking about ordering brand new OEM 2013+ Alpinas GT2260 from Garrett. In my book the gains were substantial willing to take the risk of a $4000 cost. My current Alpinas will be available for $1500 if anyone wants to grab them.
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      03-30-2016, 08:55 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 747flyboy View Post
To the guys at Mission Performance,

I am thinking about ordering brand new OEM 2013+ Alpinas GT2260 from Garrett. In my book the gains were substantial willing to take the risk of a $4000 cost. My current Alpinas will be available for $1500 if anyone wants to grab them.
Would you be putting the new turbos on your N63? If so, why not just go ahead and upgrade to a TU 550i? With the capability of flash tuning, I bet you could get some seeeeerious power out of the car, and at the same time be one of the pioneers for experimenting with the platform.
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      03-30-2016, 09:10 PM   #20
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Good question;I am attached to this vehicle since its European delivery. It has 18500 miles (mostly work overseas while the car sits Georgia). I recently sent in the last payment in exchange for a title. I am not independent or wealthy avoiding another cycle of payments.

Last edited by 747flyboy; 03-30-2016 at 10:05 PM..
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      04-05-2016, 03:30 PM   #21
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Well.... I am officially an idiot. Ever since installing the turbos the car has felt so slow to me. Smooth as before, but still slow. So today I finally had time to do some datalogging to figure out why.

Connected the JB4 interface, and then it hit me. I have been in map 0 ever since installing the turbos. Turned it back to map 1 and man, it does feel faster. The only issue is that I think the turbos are spooling a little too fast for the JB4 and the boost is spiking to about 18psi and it has to pull it back fast.

But wow, I'm an idiot
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      04-05-2016, 05:14 PM   #22
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I'm running stage aggressive at 3.5, I have the Bluetooth adapter and the JB4 app and boost spikes to just a tick over 18 psi on the app.

Nice to hear this may not be a total bust for you.
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