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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum BMW Reportedly Considering F11 5 Series Touring for U.S.
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      08-23-2011, 01:39 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Listen to reason? BMW in Germany know the situation with the Premium wagon market in the USA and I can tell you now that BMW AG are not going to spend millions of euros to reverse a current car to be federalized so it can sell in small handfulls , especially when they have the larger X5.

Why do you think Audi have pulled out and Volvo too? the E-Klasse wagon is not successful especially with heavily discounted current ML-Klasse ahead of a new ML-Klasse this Autumn.

You may say that BMW has lost focus and are losing it but when it comes down to it they know how to operate a business and know when to cut their losses. Do not expect any F11's maybe the next generation but it all depends.
And when BMW realizes the few thousand E61 owners aren't going to buy a 5er GT or an X5 to replace their E61 someday, and instead go buy a Merc E-Class, I assume they won't be surprised, as they have already decided those customers aren't important. Good to know this federalization process is so expensive that such decisions have to be made.

But hey, BMW never makes a bad decision, right?

Then again, the 3-series is getting so big maybe that will replace the 5er wagon in the states....
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      08-23-2011, 02:41 PM   #68
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And when BMW realizes the few thousand E61 owners aren't going to buy a 5er GT or an X5 to replace their E61 someday, and instead go buy a Merc E-Class, I assume they won't be surprised, as they have already decided those customers aren't important. Good to know this federalization process is so expensive that such decisions have to be made.

But hey, BMW never makes a bad decision, right?

Then again, the 3-series is getting so big maybe that will replace the 5er wagon in the states....
Do not think that BMW are just looking at the sales numbers to determine the decision. There are several overall factors aswell to consider.
in response to the Touring we looked at many areas.

The majority of E61 owners have actually stayed with the brand. As I mentioned a larger percentage went for the X5 , X6 or X3 with the rest migrating to a 5er , 7er or even a 5er GT - Dont forget look at the 5er GT forum to see how customers enjoy that car.
The migrating to other brands is not as great as everyone was making it out to be. BMW customers still prefer BMW's and very few customers went with other brands and not for wagons.

Looking at competitors to the Touring - Audi had the same problem as BMW - The Q SUV's were being chosen instead of the Avant. Audi has since removed the A6 Avant from the US. Volvo had the same problem with the XC60 and XC90 outselling the relative Wagon choices.
Mercedes-Benz T-Modell is not selling due to the discounts on the current outgoing ML-Klasse and when the new ML-Klasse arrives soon , expect the same outcome. The C-Klasse T-Modell is not offered in the US.

It is not just a general "they are not getting it" transition. Every option is considered and what many people seem to forget is that choices offered by BMW or indeed anyother manufacturer are not specifically related to success in North America. BMW is a global manufactuer and as a business it has to appeal to customers on a global scale.
Sadly within this you do see specific trends in certain markets and the wagon market in North America is one trend that shows US customers prefer SAV's over wagons. There is nothing that can stop that progression because it comes down to choice.

BMW will not be reverse federalizing the F11 because they see no justification in spending money in doing so just so that it can sit in a showroom or sell in small handfulls as before. The F31 is probably coming to the US allbeit in 328i only with optional xDrive and that will provide the test whether there is a market. But if sales are not responding as the current model then there will no more BMW Tourings in the USA.

BMW always does it's homework. It is surprising how many do not realise that.

Last edited by SCOTT26; 08-23-2011 at 02:46 PM.
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      08-23-2011, 03:00 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Do not think that BMW are just looking at the sales numbers to determine the decision. There are several overall factors aswell to consider.
in response to the Touring we looked at many areas.

The majority of E61 owners have actually stayed with the brand. As I mentioned a larger percentage went for the X5 , X6 or X3 with the rest migrating to a 5er , 7er or even a 5er GT - Dont forget look at the 5er GT forum to see how customers enjoy that car.
The migrating to other brands is not as great as everyone was making it out to be. BMW customers still prefer BMW's and very few customers went with other brands and not for wagons.

Looking at competitors to the Touring - Audi had the same problem as BMW - The Q SUV's were being chosen instead of the Avant. Audi has since removed the A6 Avant from the US. Volvo had the same problem with the XC60 and XC90 outselling the relative Wagon choices.
Mercedes-Benz T-Modell is not selling due to the discounts on the current outgoing ML-Klasse and when the new ML-Klasse arrives soon , expect the same outcome. The C-Klasse T-Modell is not offered in the US.

It is not just a general "they are not getting it" transition. Every option is considered and what many people seem to forget is that choices offered by BMW or indeed anyother manufacturer are not specifically related to success in North America. BMW is a global manufactuer and as a business it has to appeal to customers on a global scale.
Sadly within this you do see specific trends in certain markets and the wagon market in North America is one trend that shows US customers prefer SAV's over wagons. There is nothing that can stop that progression because it comes down to choice.

BMW will not be reverse federalizing the F11 because they see no justification in spending money in doing so just so that it can sit in a showroom or sell in small handfulls as before. The F31 is probably coming to the US allbeit in 328i only with optional xDrive and that will provide the test whether there is a market. But if sales are not responding as the current model then there will no more BMW Tourings in the USA.

BMW always does it's homework. It is surprising how many do not realise that.
Respect, many people only see the small picture.
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      08-23-2011, 11:55 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The F31 is probably coming to the US allbeit in 328i only with optional xDrive and that will provide the test whether there is a market. But if sales are not responding as the current model then there will no more BMW Tourings in the USA.

BMW always does it's homework. It is surprising how many do not realise that.
Why not sell it in the 35i or 35d? I think that would help increase the number of people willing to look at it a lot, even if they were both only special order options. There are lots of people who would want and buy a "fast" wagon, including myself and members of my family.

Also I don't think many people think BMW doesn't do their homework. I just believe customers feel abandoned by BMWs decision to no longer offer something they used to buy. At least that's my take on it. I know BMW isn't going to make blind decisions. They'd be stupid to.
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      08-24-2011, 06:38 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post

The F11 is handsome, but I can't see myself taking one over an SUV.
For keen drivers the major difference between an F11 and an SUV is handling. The F11 handles just like a well sorted saloon but SUVs don't. Yes you can make an SUV handle reasonably by stiffening the suspension but then you have the problem of a crap ride. Both the X5 and Porsche Cayenne are pretty miraculous in the way their engineers have been able to make them go around a track by nobody can pretend they ride well. The problem is of course their high centre of gravity.

So unless you really must have the 'I'm superior to you' seating position of an SUV what exactly is the point? Few of them are really capable of being taken off road. And the interior space is often less than you might imagine - compare the boot (trunk) size of the F11 v X5 for example:
F11 560/1670 litres
X5 620/1750 litres

Not much in it really is there?

Then comparing like for like the SUV will generally be slower and use more fuel.

I'd take an F11 and add a roof box if I really, really needed the extra space. But of course here in Europe we're fortunate we have that option.
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      08-24-2011, 12:24 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by sanf View Post
anyone know if the backseat of the F11 is adjustable?
Well, if you mean do the rear seats fold flat, then the answer is yes - in a 40:10:40 configuration.

If you mean can the rear seat backrest be adjusted in position then the answer is still yes (to a limited degree). I quote from the handbook: "The rear seat backrest can can be placed in an upright position to expand the boot. Each side can be folded down separately to any of several different angles."

If you mean can the rear seats be slid to and fro like the fronts, then I'm afraid the answer is no
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      09-06-2011, 01:38 AM   #73
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I think I'm in the minority here. I never liked the 5 wagon. Any of them all the way back to the e39. But then, I never liked any wagons. But I think the 5GT is interesting. Not in a "I'd buy one" way (heven's no), but I would take it over the wagon.
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      09-06-2011, 05:00 AM   #74
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F11? I'd buy one!

I test drove an F11 prior to placing my order for my F10 - Absoutley loved it. I've also had some time behind the wheel of a Vovlo, Merc and Audi wagons - liked those too, but the F11 was better.

As I have a US spec car here in Europe the F11 wasn't an option - and doing the conversion out my own wallet is an unattractive option to say the least.

For me, the F11 looks even better with the M Sport package, as you get the best of both worlds - family hauling/grocery store runs & great handling. it's great when you can have your kids wave goodbye to the person you beat off the line or overtake the slow moving showboat in front of you

Would be nice to see the wagon - can't sell any worse then the 5GT?
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