2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum InsideLine: 2012 Audi A6 vs. 2011 BMW 535i Comparison Test
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-01-2011, 12:15 AM   #1
-=Hot|Ice=-
Been There, Done That.
-=Hot|Ice=-'s Avatar
United_States
251
Rep
4,727
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

InsideLine: 2012 Audi A6 vs. 2011 BMW 535i Comparison Test

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideLine
BMW has defined the rules in the midsize luxury sedan class for some time now. If the executives in Munich decide the 2011 BMW 535i should be quieter, gentler and less focused on performance, we half expected everyone else to follow suit.

But Audi didn't. The redesigned 2012 Audi A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro goes through a corner like no A6 before it, accelerates hard in a straight line and feels a lot like the 5 Series we used to love. But this isn't some one-dimensional homage, as Audi has also loaded the A6 with leading-edge technology to appease modern car guys and their iDevices.


And just like that, the 2012 Audi A6 has become the most desirable car in the midsize luxury sedan class, leaving the 2011 BMW 535i in the unfamiliar position of 2nd place.

I'm Your Biggest Fan
With this redesign, the A6 finally joins the A4, A5 and A7 on Audi's MLB chassis. It mounts the engine longitudinally, but places it farther back behind the front axle to lessen the sensation that you're in a front-drive-based Audi instead of a rear-wheel-drive Bimmer.

Notably, this A6 has 3 fewer inches of front overhang, which translates to less mass up front and helps the car respond more quickly to steering input. All A6s with the 3.0 V6 also get standard Quattro all-wheel drive. Its torsen-type center differential biases 60 percent of engine torque to the rear axle, so it steers more naturally under normal conditions.

Even with its all-wheel-drive hardware, the 2012 Audi A6's curb weight is within the BMW's ballpark. The use of aluminum body panels and suspension parts holds our Audi A6 tester to 4,175 pounds just 100 more than the rear-drive 2011 BMW 535i. The two cars are within an inch of each other in length, width and height, while the BMW has an extra 2 inches of wheelbase (116.9 inches).

I Heart Forced Induction
Anyone would have a tough time coming up with an engine worthy of competing with BMW's turbocharged inline six-cylinders. The smooth, refined engines deliver the goods when you floor the throttle, while serving up a sweet soundtrack of induction noise and exhaust snarl.

The Audi A6 has never been a major force. But great things happen when an automaker has nothing to lose.

The 3.0-liter N55 six in the 2011 BMW 535i uses one twin-scroll turbocharger, plus direct injection to get an easily verifiable 300 horsepower and 300 pound-feet of torque. Not only does our 535i feel great, it puts up the same acceleration numbers as the V8-equipped BMW 540i of a decade ago.

The Audi's 3.0-liter V6 engine has more low-end grunt, though, if you don't mind its industrial drone. Response is sharp off the line, and then it delivers a torque curve as broad as Montana. You don't expect performance like this from a V6 (forced induction or not) and neither do the motorists you've just blown by on the freeway.

What's more, the Audi's supercharged V6 is listed at 310 hp and 325 lb-ft of torque, but we suspect it's even more underrated than BMW's turbo inline-6s. Why? Its quarter-mile time is a half-second quicker and its trap speed was 102 mph, 5 mph faster than the 535i. The A6 is also half a second quicker to 60 mph at 5.2 seconds (or 4.9 with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip).

Eight Speeds for All
Both sedans use the ZF eight-speed automatic transmission (though you could order a six-speed manual on the 2011 535i). Forward gearing is nearly identical, but the sedans' final drives are different, and of course, each manufacturer uses it own proprietary software.

In their respective sport modes, both automatics upshift smoothly under full throttle and downshift with authority, not to mention matching revs to keep things smooth. In Manual mode, the A6 upshifts for you before the rev limiter, which is more of a poetic injustice than a real problem when you have an engine that's all about the midrange.


The 535i is plagued by the same sluggish response to part-throttle inputs we've observed in a few other BMWs like our long-term 528i, our long-term 750i and the 2011 740i. It's hard to be smooth in city traffic, so we hope BMW will address this soon.

Red Alert: We Don't Have Pricing Parity
Although we matched the cylinder counts and transmissions on these midsize luxury sedans, our 2011 BMW 535i test car costs $60,225, while our 2012 Audi A6 3.0 TFSI Quattro comes in at $71,330.

How do we live with ourselves? Simple math. The base prices on these sedans are within $300 of each other, but this particular 535i is an austerity special. It has the Sport and Dynamic Handling packages and la carte Dakota leather, but no Premium package, no navigation system, not even an auto-dimming rearview mirror.

If you option the 2011 BMW 535i up to the level of our A6 tester (Prestige, Sport and Innovation packages, plus the Bang & Olufsen philharmonic), it finally arrives at $71,920, a difference of $590.

Taking the Back Road to Work
For this kind of money, you want more than a nice daily driver you want a sedan that takes you on an adventure. That's the reason we've always liked the BMW 5 Series. But this time around, we have to admit that if construction forced us onto a back road, we'd rather be in the A6.

Earlier A6s were clumsy when you got them on a good road, but this one feels light and changes directions easily. The 255/40R19 Pirelli P Zero Sport package tires certainly help with grip, but there's a solid suspension underneath this car as well. It gives the A6 excellent balance and makes you feel as if your inputs matter. This builds confidence, and when you arrive at the corner exit, you can wood the throttle and take full advantage of the Audi's AWD.


This kind of feedback is what made previous 5 Series sedans so addictive, and it's exactly what's missing from the 2011 535i. The car put on nearly 200 pounds in its latest redesign and that, combined with its suspension's softer state of tune, makes for a far more isolating experience. This 5 Series still goes where you expect it to, but now you don't really know how it got there. You just assume the adaptive dampers and antiroll bars were working their magic.

The 535i also has less grip than the A6, which isn't surprising with its Goodyear Excellence run-flat tires (245/40R19 front, 275/35/R19 rear), which aren't known for their adhesion. Of course, this yields predictable results during instrumented testing, where the A6 goes through the slalom at 67.2 mph to the 535i's 64.5 mph. Skid pad results are closer, as the Audi manages 0.90g versus 0.88 g for the BMW.

I've Lost My Way
Without question, this 2012 Audi A6's electric steering is better than the setup we had in our long-term S5. The A6's steering is still overly light at low speeds, but the effort level increases in a more linear fashion when you start barreling down back roads. The steering ratio matches the quick reactions of the chassis, too. Still, we would prefer even more feedback.

Similarly, the steering feel that once distinguished the 5 Series from all other midsize luxury sedans is gone. Instead, this car has precise, electric power steering with a logical build-up in effort as you turn the wheel off-center. And that's it. Nothing wrong with it, but nothing special about it either.

Braking performance also inspires ambivalence. Pedal feel is soft in the A6, but it stops from 60 mph in 111 feet. The brake pedal is pleasantly firm in the BMW 535i, but with those Goodyears, it can't do any better than 118 feet.

Back on the Highway
We expect cars in this class to spare us every discomfort. But that's no easy task with 19-inch wheels, low-profile tires and notoriously lumpy L.A. freeways.

Although both sedans have compliant rides, there's more impact harshness than we'd like, particularly in the A6, which isn't available with adaptive dampers. Forgoing the optional Sport package suspension calibration might help, but it would make the A6 less fun through corners.

Inside, both driver seats are comfortable and supportive, but the BMW's chair is wider with an extendable seat-bottom cushion, and is therefore more accommodating for 6-foot 200-pounders.

If you're going to use the backseat, we'd lean toward the Audi, which has significantly more real-world rear legroom than its 1.3-inch advantage would indicate. In addition, the A6's narrower front seats benefit rear passengers, who have a better view out the front of the car.

Silicon Valley in Your Sedan
Technology is no longer an afterthought in sport-luxury sedans like these. Now you practically need basic computer skills just to drive them.

BMW's iDrive has come a long way on the user-friendliness spectrum, but it still reminds us of Internet Explorer: In other words, it's still a bit clunky. In the A6, corner buttons around the main Multi Media Interface (MMI) controller act as breadcrumbs, so it's easier to regroup if you've gone down the wrong path.

In addition, the BMW 5 Series doesn't have a Wi-Fi router, which is the neatest bit of tech in the 2012 Audi A6. Using a 3G connection (with a rated speed of 7 megabits per second), this mobile Internet connection adds Google Earth data to the navigation system's DVD-based street maps while providing simplified Google search for POIs. It sounds a bit over the top, but it's actually quite handy if you need to get some unexpected work done on the road and there's no Starbucks in sight.

Both cabins have rich wood inlays surrounding their tech, but the furnishings in the A6 are warmer than the down-to-business ensemble in the 535i. However, we noticed a couple ill-fitting panels in our Audi tester, while the BMW is flawless.

Are There Any Sport Sedans Left?
It's a stretch to call the Audi A6 and BMW 535i sport sedans. These are big, heavy, complicated luxury sedans, and comparing them to a seminal car like the E39 5 Series, which had a CD-based nav system and weighed 500 pounds less, seems almost silly.

Yet, the 5 Series is the car that made the midsize luxury sedan class cool, and BMW executives seem to have lost sight of that. There's nothing terrible about this softer, more luxurious 2011 535i, but it doesn't match its predecessor's braking and handling numbers, and more critically, it just isn't as fun to toss around anymore.

The Audi A6 has never been a player in this class the 5 Series usually outsells it 4 to 1. But great things happen when an automaker has nothing to lose and this A6 feels like a winner.

This 2012 Audi A6 puts a smile on your face when you steer into a corner. And it puts one there again when you floor the throttle at the exit. This all-wheel-drive sedan is arguably a more entertaining car to drive than any of its rear-drive rivals. Sport sedan or not, the Audi A6 is now the car of choice in this category.
http://www.insideline.com/audi/a6/20...ison-test.html
Appreciate 0
      08-01-2011, 12:23 AM   #2
AsiaKid
Lieutenant
40
Rep
560
Posts

Drives: GTR/Gallardo Spyder/X5
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

time to trade in 2 yrs time..haha when enough mods exist crank out 400HP
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2011, 06:57 AM   #3
clarence
Lieutenant Colonel
42
Rep
1,544
Posts

Drives: F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AsiaKid View Post
time to trade in 2 yrs time..haha when enough mods exist crank out 400HP
ABT Sportsline already have mod that makes the V6 crank out more than 400ps.
Appreciate 0
      08-02-2011, 07:59 AM   #4
AsiaKid
Lieutenant
40
Rep
560
Posts

Drives: GTR/Gallardo Spyder/X5
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

oh yeh, just checked that. That is impressive Anyway, just got this 528i..so hold it for at least a year

But will keep my eyes out on it
Appreciate 0
      08-24-2011, 04:43 PM   #5
epiphone3
Lieutenant Colonel
65
Rep
1,745
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW X3 35i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

I've never been an Audi guy at all, but this new A6 looks the biz and sounds like it delivers too.
Appreciate 0
      08-24-2011, 09:34 PM   #6
stickypaws
Dictator
stickypaws's Avatar
-22
Rep
1,816
Posts

Drives: people crazy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: where you want to be

iTrader: (0)

I'd be interested in the A6 for certain. It's got pretty much what one looks for in this segment and seems to have really evolved nicely (rather than devolved which sometimes I think the F10 has done.)

The only think I can't get my head around is that humongous front grill. Why does it have to be so GIGANTIC?
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 12:55 AM   #7
Sonnie
Bama Hillbilly
United_States
4
Rep
88
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 528i
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lower Bama

iTrader: (0)

$60K 528i on order, but my wife and I looked at a 2012 the other day with a list of $71K. I really like the body style, but the interior is less impressive, other than the cool looking B&O stereo system (outrageously priced at $5900). I would not like the Nav display screen sticking up as it does when not recessed in the dash. It looks out of place and distracting. I missed the soft close doors as well. The gas mileage is not as good either.

Did not bother to drive it because I would not want to scare anyone with that gargantuan grill on the front... what does it measure, about four feet high?

These are things that would cause me to not want to pay $11K more for it. I certainly did not see $11K more car there.
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 01:51 AM   #8
KinG12sKy
First Lieutenant
KinG12sKy's Avatar
Cambodia
13
Rep
316
Posts

Drives: Evoque, RR Vogue AutoBio, M4
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: California

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm.. The A6 TSFI is too much money IMO... the prestige class is the only one you could get with the DRL package.. The premium plus does not have it too.. That is from when i checked it.. idk abt now but it prolly wont change much.
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 11:19 AM   #9
epiphone3
Lieutenant Colonel
65
Rep
1,745
Posts

Drives: 2013 BMW X3 35i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary

iTrader: (0)

In Canada, you can get the A6 3.0T better equipped than a 528i for a little less money. If you go with super spec, then you would be on par price-wise with a 535 xdrive but with a little more equipment and speed, apparently.
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 11:23 AM   #10
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
Netherlands
2576
Rep
6,487
Posts

Drives: LBB M2+MPE
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands/ Lilyhammer, Norway

iTrader: (0)

Here in NL/Western EU the 5 series is selling well in its class. So does the new E Class.

The new A6, though a great car, is way and way behind. It's not just as popular whatever.
This is what I heard first hand from a friend of mine a few weeks ago who is salesperson @ Audi Amsterdam...
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 12:23 PM   #11
uhn2000
Big K...
uhn2000's Avatar
Canada
36
Rep
1,654
Posts

Drives: 2 For Now..
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

The new Audi A6 is the most rare care ever - don't see any of them around compared to the new F10. I can't imagine them selling very well even though they "drive" better. BTW I will believe it when I test one ... I tested my inlaws A5 the other day and it was a POS - I swear I was so disappointed in the car.

Audis I see are A4, A5, A7s (rare), and 8s... on and their Qs..
__________________
Prancing horse..
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 01:04 PM   #12
EdM5
Lieutenant Colonel
EdM5's Avatar
Netherlands
274
Rep
1,629
Posts

Drives: F82 M4 CP & E70 X5 Xdrive35d
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Amsterdam

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
The new Audi A6 is the most rare care ever - don't see any of them around compared to the new F10. I can't imagine them selling very well even though they "drive" better. BTW I will believe it when I test one ... I tested my inlaws A5 the other day and it was a POS - I swear I was so disappointed in the car.

Audis I see are A4, A5, A7s (rare), and 8s... on and their Qs..
Update: they (=A6) don't drive better. Car mag. journalists are usually full of shit.
When they get the red carpet treatment from any car maker to test a new car they swear to god it's the best car they've ever driven....until the next invitation.
__________________
2004 e87 118d (ret.), 2007 e92 330d (ret.), 2007 e87 130i M-sport (ret.), 2009 e92 M3 (ret.), 2010 f10 535d M-sport (ret.), 2015 f10 M5 CP (ret.)
2017 f82 M4 CP & 2009 e70 X5 35d
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 02:57 PM   #13
Snapper Chris
Private
United Kingdom
1
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: BMW 535i SE Touring F11
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Here's another view - the verdict from Autocar in the UK:

"Only in one category does the A6 drop below four stars, yet it never climbs above that mark - and this tells you much that you need to know. Now equipped with a decent chassis, the A6 sets impressively high standards across the board without once threatening to blow the class out of the water.

Still, we should not ignore Audi's achievement in at last making an A6 that's almost as good to drive as it is to look at. If its position - fourth place - in our rivals table (below) looks like a less than edifying result, it takes no account of how close these cars are now bunched, or how high the overall standard is. Truth is that the new A6 is a car of which Audi can be proud and, should you be in the market for a large saloon, one at which you should take a long, hard look."


Results:
1st BMW 520d SE
2nd Mecedes-Benz E220 CDI SE
3rd Skoda Superb 2.0 TDi 170 Elegance
4th Audi A6 2.0 TDi SE
5th Saab 9-5 TTiD Vector SE
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 03:21 PM   #14
stickypaws
Dictator
stickypaws's Avatar
-22
Rep
1,816
Posts

Drives: people crazy
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: where you want to be

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper Chris View Post
Results:
1st BMW 520d SE
2nd Mecedes-Benz E220 CDI SE
3rd Skoda Superb 2.0 TDi 170 Elegance
4th Audi A6 2.0 TDi SE
5th Saab 9-5 TTiD Vector SE
Wow, a SAAB is on the list. Poor SAAB is not far off from bankruptcy now despite all the recent efforts to save it. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ay-of-pay.html
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 03:36 PM   #15
AlexK
Private First Class
Uzbekistan
4
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5d, 2013 C63
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Work

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
I've read that comparison, and it was somewhat flawed in different ways, not what I would expect from InsideLine, but then again, it was written by a woman ...

-they mention (in the article itself) that new A6's EPS is "still overly light", yet in the summary they write that it's still "rewarding to drive"...
-they compare AWD verison of A6 with a RWD version of 5-series
-they compare cars with different tires by different manufacturers. I know that's how the cars are being manufactured and shipped, but that doesn't mean that I must use those tires throughout the lifetime of the car.
-they mention the built-in WiFi hotspot in new A6 as something that is advantageous, yet they don't mention that it is (as far as I know) based on T-Mobile's 3G technology, which will likely get dropped (since T-Mobile uses different frequencies) as soon as AT&T will finalize the purchase of T-Mobile... Not to mention that 3G is "yesterday's news" already, all mobile carriers are currently actively expanding 4G networks, plus you can already create WiFi hotspots (or at the very least connect them to your laptop and use as wired modem) with certain models of smartphones on just about any major mobile carrier's network.
-there's no mention of visual aesthetic features, such as horrible "christmas light strips" that Audi uses as headlights nowadays, or the disproportional automatic transmission shifter in A6 with its left side clearly "sawed off" by a circular saw or something like this... But once again, this article was written by a woman, and these creatures don't care about such silly things, all they usually care about is to have as much glowy and shiny things on their bodies and other personal possessions as possible

Last edited by AlexK; 08-25-2011 at 03:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      08-25-2011, 06:35 PM   #16
gatoman39
Major
gatoman39's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
1,347
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335 M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
The 20 inch summer tires used on the test Audi will kill you in real world driving. The suspension isn't adjustable, so if you like tire noise and a rock hard ride on your way to work by all means go for the Audi.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 08:19 AM   #17
uhn2000
Big K...
uhn2000's Avatar
Canada
36
Rep
1,654
Posts

Drives: 2 For Now..
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Again just to add to this post the only reason VW, woops I mean Audi ever even sold these cars was because they are/were pretty - the A5/A4 are one of the worst drives I have seen for a company that prides itself on Quattro...
__________________
Prancing horse..
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 08:54 AM   #18
Soft
Private
2
Rep
81
Posts

Drives: Audi A7 3.0 TSFI
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Norway

iTrader: (0)

"... But once again, this article was written by a woman, and these creatures don't care about such silly things, all they usually care about is to have as much glowy and shiny things on their bodies and other personal possessions as possible "

Ohhh, wifly not to happy with that :-)
So now she wants us to have a look at the new A6 :-(
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 10:17 AM   #19
Snapper Chris
Private
United Kingdom
1
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: BMW 535i SE Touring F11
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhn2000 View Post
The new Audi A6 is the most rare care ever - don't see any of them around compared to the new F10. I can't imagine them selling very well even though they "drive" better. BTW I will believe it when I test one ... I tested my inlaws A5 the other day and it was a POS - I swear I was so disappointed in the car.
Perhaps, in order to make this forum slightly useful to those looking for good quality information, we should try to be a little more objective.

Of course you won't see many A6's around compared to the F10 yet as it's only just been launched and the F10 has been available for over a year.

Second, whilst you may prefer BMW's (as will most contributors to this forum) and it's evident you do not particularly like the A5, I don't think anybody can honestly say that the A5 is a POS!
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 10:39 AM   #20
AlexK
Private First Class
Uzbekistan
4
Rep
128
Posts

Drives: 2012 X5d, 2013 C63
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Work

iTrader: (0)

Also, forgot to mention a couple of things:

-What's up with engine start/stop button being on the right side of transmission shifter, in a (supposedly) driver-oriented car? Why not exchange its location with a gimmicky touchpad, or move it to dashboard, where it REALLY belongs according to majority of car manufacturers?

-Audi STILL insists on using motorized "pop-up" displays for the navigation/entertainment system, even though it is wrong from an engineering point of view - this display with its multiple moving gears (some of which are probably plastic) and motors is much less reliable due to the fact that moving mechanical parts tend to wear out over time and even a single broken gear (or for example the "burned out" electrical motor that drives those gears) can render the display absolutely useless (if it will get stuck in "closed" position). Broken stuff leads to repairs, which will cost extra $$$ to the company and extra aggravation for potential customers. But then again, Audi's engineers are not really known for doing a fine work, the "form" always had a priority over the "function" (and other silly concepts such as "reliability") for them
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 10:49 AM   #21
Snapper Chris
Private
United Kingdom
1
Rep
61
Posts

Drives: BMW 535i SE Touring F11
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
Also, forgot to mention a couple of things:

-What's up with engine start/stop button being on the right side of transmission shifter, in a (supposedly) driver-oriented car? Why not exchange its location with a gimmicky touchpad, or move it to dashboard, where it REALLY belongs according to majority of car manufacturers?

-Audi STILL insists on using motorized "pop-up" displays for the navigation/entertainment system, even though it is wrong from an engineering point of view - this display with its multiple moving gears (some of which are probably plastic) and motors is much less reliable due to the fact that moving mechanical parts tend to wear out over time and even a single broken gear (or for example the "burned out" electrical motor that drives those gears) can render the display absolutely useless (if it will get stuck in "closed" position). Broken stuff leads to repairs, which will cost extra $$$ to the company and extra aggravation for potential customers. But then again, Audi's engineers are not really known for doing a fine work, the "form" always had a priority over the "function" (and other silly concepts such as "reliability") for them
Am I correct in thinking you don't like the A6?
Appreciate 0
      08-26-2011, 05:32 PM   #22
gatoman39
Major
gatoman39's Avatar
United_States
80
Rep
1,347
Posts

Drives: 2011 E92 335 M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
But then again, Audi's engineers are not really known for doing a fine work, the "form" always had a priority over the "function" (and other silly concepts such as "reliability") for them
Neither are BMW's, which is why the buyers overlap.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:50 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST