[lindros2]

Originally Posted by pmw103

Hi Lindros2,
Thanks for the feedback, very interesting, did your dealer offer any solution?
Or did they just say its a fact of life and nothing they can do?

My dealer essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing), "it is what it is, tough sh-t."

Well if my 7-month daughter is freezing in the back of a $60,000 automobile, it is a big deal. I don't give a sh-t if they have to install an auxilliary fan unit in my car - it will be their problem, not mine.

So long-term? If they can't fix it, they'll have to find me a 4-zone car.

[pmw103]

Hi Deejaygee,
Just ran the car for 10 mins put the temp right up to 28 and hot air did come thorugh in the end, but still not as warm as the front.
How long did you run the heating for? Was the engine warm?
We found something odd if you leave it on auto we could feel an odd mixture of hot and cold air blowing under the seat, however when we took it out of auto, remember you have to turn the auto off manually first and forced everything to the floor we just got hot air. So while we are happy its working it a point its still not great, so car is going into the service deparment on Thursday will let you know if they find anything!

I just double checked we have the same air con.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...elTypeKey=FS12

So I would expect you should get heat in the rear?
If you don't after 5 to 10mins of running the car I would definitely take it in to be checked!
Good luck!
Cheers
Paul

[pmw103]

Hi Lindros2,
Sorry to hear your daughter is cold that is not good!
As you say disapointing in such an expensive car.
Not the response you want from the dealer!

Did you try taking the climiate control out of auto first and then forcing all the air to the floor? We found that gave the best results in the back.

I am wondering if its a software / sensor fault! Physically Dad's car did get hotish in the end. Not has warm as the front though.
Good luck with getting them to swap out the car for one with 4 zone control!
And it was really odd the auto program brought in cool air too!
Cheers
Paul

Originally Posted by lindros2

My dealer essentially said (and I'm paraphrasing), "it is what it is, tough sh-t."

Well if my 7-month daughter is freezing in the back of a $60,000 automobile, it is a big deal. I don't give a sh-t if they have to install an auxilliary fan unit in my car - it will be their problem, not mine.

So long-term? If they can't fix it, they'll have to find me a 4-zone car.

[HighlandPete]

I'm assuming from viewing the user manual that you would have to use the air distribution control (as has been raised) to force more heat into the rear, when not relying on the 'softer' auto distribution. I don't see that as a problem for faster heating of the rear of the car. Many cars demand that manual control, for faster rear heating.

What I see is missing, is tuning the rear face vents from the rear. But if we don't have the facility like the E60/1, do we really expect the face vents to get hot air, I'm reading that is the problem, (am I correct?) and the rear passengers would "have to ask" for a cool flow from the driver. For me that would be equally wrong.

HighlandPete

[pmw103]

Hi Highland Pete,
Indeed you could look at it that way, forcing the hot air into the back manually seams to be ok and indeed to warm up quickly that's fine. However if you have the temperature up high I would not expect the auto setting to be blowing cooler air into the back which seams to be the case at the moment. I am very interested to see what they will say on Thursday.

Yes with the standard two zone control at least here in the UK, there are no temperature dials in the back as depicted in the manual. So indeed at the moment the passengers in the back would have to ask the driver to adjust the temperature and in doing so as far as I can see affects the temperature in the front and the rear. If you want independent control of the rear temperature you need to go for the 4 zone option. This is indeed a step back from the e39, which is a shame because the rest of the car is a massive step forward!

We didn't really see any difference in the back when adjusting just the thumb wheel temperature control in the vents at the top of the dash.

Temperature is a very subjective area and I reckon its a very personal thing and the only way to be sure is to test it and see if your happy with it. I am sure for many the standard set-up will suffice but I suspect a significant minority will only be happy with the 4 zone air con.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by pmw103

Temperature is a very subjective area and I reckon its a very personal thing and the only way to be sure is to test it and see if your happy with it. I am sure for many the standard set-up will suffice but I suspect a significant minority will only be happy with the 4 zone air con.

As I said in my earlier post my cynical side says we now 'need' the 4-zone. I agree it's a backwards step, for the so called 'extended system'.

Hope the garage do find some reason why it's poor in performance. But I'm not too positive that they will.

HighlandPete

[pmw103]

I agree 100% BMW make their money on options!
Yes its is backwards for sure, the good news is that at least from a not so sporty driver's point of view its about the only one! I know some people have concerns about the steering etc.

I fear they won't find anything either, I guess the only thing is that there might be a software update for the climate control! Its interesting some people have replied and said they only get cold air in the back and they should have the same system we do. There is something funny going on! Will be interesting to see what transpires.

I suspect this will turn out like the DAB info question some cars see it others don't. I suspect for a while at least the local service department's won't have a clue at least initially the "joy" of being an early adopter of new tech ;-)

[lindros2]

I think this is less software and more pure physics.

The only way to get a good volume of air in the back (without disturbing the front) is to control separately.

I should ALSO note that (I think) the 4-zone has an extra TWO vents in the B-pillars (between the front and rear doors). On 2-zone cars, there is an indentation, but no vents.

Competitors such as the Audi A6 and Mercedes-Benz E-class have the vents standard.

[bike99]

I asked my dealer this afternoon about this, and he told me that this is something you may set using iDrive. I haven't seen this, but he has told me he had the same issue and had changed it so he gets warm air from the centre vents now. I'm waiting for my 520 to arrive in ~2 weeks so someone needs to check it.

[pmw103]

Hi Bike99,
Thanks very much for the feedback that's very interesting.
We have looked through the idrive and the only two climate options we could see were for heated seat distribution and for when the engine is off the independent ventilation.
Would you mind asking your dealer exactly what he changed please?
I wonder if there is a hidden idrive menu?
Or something they configure in the service department that isn't normally accessible to the end user?

Very exciting! I am sure you will love your new car enjoy!
Thanks again!
Paul

Originally Posted by bike99

I asked my dealer this afternoon about this, and he told me that this is something you may set using iDrive. I haven't seen this, but he has told me he had the same issue and had changed it so he gets warm air from the centre vents now. I'm waiting for my 520 to arrive in ~2 weeks so someone needs to check it.

[bike99]

I'm afraid I won't see him any time soon. Sorry...

[pmw103]

Hi Bike99,
No problem, just had another more extensive test and the air is blowing hot into the back, its just there is more cold air so it takes a long time to warm up because its coming from the front. Its about 3.5 degrees here tonight.

We had another look but didn't see any obvious climate idrive options that put the heat in the back.
Next time we are definitely ordering the 4 zone air con!
Cheers
p

[smanoj77]

Tested my heater last night. The back vents had warm air coming out albeit a few seconds after the front vents give off warm air. Its not as warm as the front, but enough to warm the rear of the car.

[pmw103]

@smanoj77,
Thanks for the feedback,
Wow seconds hey that's much better than Dad's car, was the engine hot when you tested it?

Dad took the car to the dealer today and the checked it and they say the car is operating as they expect so no further action.

To us though it seams to take a long time for the heat to make it to the back, more than seconds! But its good to hear your's is working well.

[taylorpetie]

I have an intermittent problem with the rear vents (unfortunately, it doesn't happen every time, but often enough for me to realize now). Anyone have issues where the vent in the rear doesn't even come on, even if the front fan power is set to the highest settings? (I have the 2 zone setting only). The rear vent in my car would not blow air after I start the car. It's not until I push the "MAX" button, then air will blow out in the rear vents. At this point, the rear air vent will work (even after I release the "MAX" button). This isn't expected behavior, is it?

On a different note, the lack of hot air for the rear vents is another issue...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by taylorpetie

I have an intermittent problem with the rear vents (unfortunately, it doesn't happen every time, but often enough for me to realize now). Anyone have issues where the vent in the rear doesn't even come on, even if the front fan power is set to the highest settings? (I have the 2 zone setting only). The rear vent in my car would not blow air after I start the car. It's not until I push the "MAX" button, then air will blow out in the rear vents. At this point, the rear air vent will work (even after I release the "MAX" button). This isn't expected behavior, is it?..

Just a thought... is this only on start up? For the first mile or so. If so is could be related to the front face vent setting. What setting do you have on the fine tuning wheel? Why I'm thinking this way, face vents don't always come on immediate either, when the ambient temperature doesn't match the setting parameters. Try the tuning wheeel to the red (hotest) setting and see if the issue is the same, it may show response is faster and it's a flap control that blocks the rear until the right parameters are met. I can see how the MAX button overrides the auto settings.

HighlandPete

[lindros2]

Originally Posted by taylorpetie

It's not until I push the "MAX" button, then air will blow out in the rear vents. At this point, the rear air vent will work (even after I release the "MAX" button). This isn't expected behavior, is it?

On a different note, the lack of hot air for the rear vents is another issue...

I think these are slightly related, but I have very little air blowing out during either "AUTO" setting (which has four levels of air volume similar to older models w/ low/medium/high or whatever it was called) and manual (which appears to be five or six fan speeds).

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Just a thought... is this only on start up? For the first mile or so. If so is could be related to the front face vent setting.

No this has nothing to do with start-up.

I have this issue minutes - or hours - after turning on the car.

[lindros2]

Originally Posted by bike99

I asked my dealer this afternoon about this, and he told me that this is something you may set using iDrive. I haven't seen this, but he has told me he had the same issue and had changed it so he gets warm air from the centre vents now. I'm waiting for my 520 to arrive in ~2 weeks so someone needs to check it.

Forgive me for a moment, but your dealer is an idiot.

This was adjustable with the OLDER 5-series cars (search online for a E60 M5 manual if you have a moment). Pages 88-89 explain the iDrive settings for vent/HVAC distribution.

The F10/F11 does not have this.

(I'm angry about this because car dealers - and their employees - tend to be the most uneducated about cars. And they're the ones we go to for help.)

[taylorpetie]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Just a thought... is this only on start up? For the first mile or so. If so is could be related to the front face vent setting. What setting do you have on the fine tuning wheel? Why I'm thinking this way, face vents don't always come on immediate either, when the ambient temperature doesn't match the setting parameters. Try the tuning wheeel to the red (hotest) setting and see if the issue is the same, it may show response is faster and it's a flap control that blocks the rear until the right parameters are met. I can see how the MAX button overrides the auto settings.

HighlandPete

Similar to lindros2, my 'anomaly' happens well after startup (15 mins, 30 mins, you name it) until I hit the max button. Setting on my fine tune wheel = 60. Also tried turning to hottest setting and nothing comes out the rear either (until the max button is activated). But as I mentioned, this problem is intermittent. Knowing my luck, if I bring it to the service dept... it will probably work all of the time.

[krell]

I wonder if the problem is related to the air conditioning being switched on?

Every car I've known with air conditioning has the option to switch off. If the outside air temperature is colder than your temperature setting, it will heat it up to that level - otherwise it just passes the air into the cabin as is because it obviously can't cool it down.

I tend to switch off air conditiioning in the colder months because using it burns more fuel. What I've noticed is that for the same temperature setting the air feels colder when the air conditioning is switched on compared to when its switched off. This may be due to the low humidity levels of air conditioned air.

I wonder if anyone has tried to turn off the air conditioning (but keep the system on) to see if the rear heating is any better?

[smanoj77]

[QUOTE=pmw103;8199767]@smanoj77,
Thanks for the feedback,
Wow seconds hey that's much better than Dad's car, was the engine hot when you tested it?

Yes, the engine was warm when I tested it. I usually give the engine around 5 min to warm up before I switch my heating ON. Do you keep the front air blow strength to full? I keep mine at level 2. I'm not sure if that'll make a difference.

[krell]

[QUOTE=smanoj77;8215447]

Originally Posted by pmw103

@smanoj77,
I usually give the engine around 5 min to warm up before I switch my heating ON.

That's a good point. In my Mercedes S Class, no air is blown into the cabin until the engine is warm enough. This is dependent on the outside air temperature and the temperature setting on the air con unit. This mode of operation makes sense to me.

Of course, if you want to cool the air down and the outside air temperature is warmer than the temperature setting, it lets cool air into the cabin immediately because the air con can get to work quickly when its in cooling mode.