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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Car&Driver August 2010 issue
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      07-01-2010, 01:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by texasKA View Post
man i told yall the F10 is too heavy. oh yeah, no F* ckin spare tire. there's not even a place to add a spare tire if you choose to do so.

that means you're forced to buying $400/tire run-flats, which drive like sh* t and are too harsh and not very compliant. there are far better tires on the market, and they dont come as run-flats.
Have you actually driven the new F10 with the tires they put on the car? The Goodyear Excellence tires with the suspension on the car have a nice smooth quality to them. They aren't even remotely harsh. I was quite surprised how well they drive.

I came from a 335i with Bridgestone RE050A RFTs. Now those were pretty harsh. Sporty, but harsh. The tires on my 535i have a *much* improved ride quality. And I think they still grip just fine in the corners.
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      07-01-2010, 06:50 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by ibimmer346 View Post
Have you actually driven the new F10 with the tires they put on the car? The Goodyear Excellence tires with the suspension on the car have a nice smooth quality to them. They aren't even remotely harsh. I was quite surprised how well they drive.

I came from a 335i with Bridgestone RE050A RFTs. Now those were pretty harsh. Sporty, but harsh. The tires on my 535i have a *much* improved ride quality. And I think they still grip just fine in the corners.
The 535i that I tested also had 19" Goodyear Excellence tires and the car rode very well over uneven and broken pavement. Like you, I had a previous 335i with the harsh riding Bridgestones. No question that RFTs have improved considerably over the past four years since BMW started equipping cars with these tires.
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      07-01-2010, 07:55 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
The 535i that I tested also had 19" Goodyear Excellence tires and the car rode very well over uneven and broken pavement. Like you, I had a previous 335i with the harsh riding Bridgestones. No question that RFTs have improved considerably over the past four years since BMW started equipping cars with these tires.
BMW stated about a year ago that the first model to use the new 3rd generation style Run Flats was going to be the new 5-series. The new 3rd gen RFT are much closer in ride quality to a conventional tire then the 2nd Gen RFT that the E60 models came with on the Sports Package models.
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      07-12-2010, 10:44 AM   #48
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Bad reviews - New 5 series

I saw the CarandDriver August issue who are typically big BMW fans rated the new 5 series -535i below old Audi A6 (amazing as I always found A6 to be a middle aged lady car) and the new E class.

The major complaint was lifeless Lexus like steering. I saw a similar review/steering complaint from an Indian car magazine when compared against E class.

Is the new steering that bad?
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      07-12-2010, 11:48 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sali View Post
I saw the CarandDriver August issue who are typically big BMW fans rated the new 5 series -535i below old Audi A6 (amazing as I always found A6 to be a middle aged lady car) and the new E class.

The major complaint was lifeless Lexus like steering. I saw a similar review/steering complaint from an Indian car magazine when compared against E class.

Is the new steering that bad?
Yes, after having driven a 535i with Sport Package, I would have to agree with Car & Driver's assessment that the electric steering is indeed "lifeless and uninformative". BMW will surely in due course have to correct this major flaw in what would otherwise be a very good car. The car also feels very large and it lacks agility for city driving - the wide turning circle (more than 39 ft.) and very long wheelbase do not help.
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      07-12-2010, 03:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by mlai View Post
I second that. I value IAS more than the Dynamic handling pkg. In fact, here in Hong Kong, I ordered my 550i with IAS but not the adaptive drive (Dynamic handling). I will probably upgrade to M Sport suspension and aftermkt anti-roll bar if needed at a later point.....
"I will probably upgrade to M Sport suspension"

This is not possible! Incompatible.
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      07-12-2010, 03:52 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekS View Post
Yes, after having driven a 535i with Sport Package, I would have to agree with Car & Driver's assessment that the electric steering is indeed "lifeless and uninformative". BMW will surely in due course have to correct this major flaw in what would otherwise be a very good car. The car also feels very large and it lacks agility for city driving - the wide turning circle (more than 39 ft.) and very long wheelbase do not help.
thanks for the heads up as I did like the interior and exterior and was seriously thinking about 535 or 528 euro delivery. But I still find it hard to believe that A6 is better than the new 535i.
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      07-13-2010, 07:31 PM   #52
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I have had my 535i for one month and I agree with Car and Driver about the "light" steering. My 2007 530i had a much better feel. I even sent a product improvement to BMWNA.

I really like the 535i but it could have been better.
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      07-14-2010, 04:26 AM   #53
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I notice that the few above who mentioned that the F10 steering is light, drives a 3 series. Do you agree that the E90 steering is lighter than the E46's (both of which I have and drive)? Which car would you say handle better? I do find the E90 steering lighter but I would not say that it is lifeless or uninformative The E90 steering is reasonably sharp, but can be heavier and sharper

To say that a steering is light is one thing, but to rank the F10 below another which has a weaker steering/handles worse is a separate matter

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showpost...8&postcount=16 as taken from http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=407128

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      07-14-2010, 01:05 PM   #54
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I took delivery of my 2011 550i yesterday doing BMW Euro Delivery at the BMW Welt in Munich. That was a great experience. I put 250 miles on the car yesterday and today driving to Prague. My prior car is a 2008 550i with the M-Sport Package with Active Steering. I prefer the steering of my E60. For my taste the steering on the F10 feels a bit loose and not sporty. My 2011 550i has Dynamic Handling Control which I dislike. At the comfort setting the F10 rides like a boat. I cannot imagine anyone that would buy a BMW would ever use that setting. Normal is not much better. I just leave the car in Sport or Sport+. Comparing those 2 settings to my E60 M-Sport Sport Suspension, I much prefer the ride of the E60. I am happy in general with the F10, but I wish that it were more athletic or sport oriented. I want a SPORTS Sedan, not a COMPROMISED SPORTS Sedan. I like the design, although it is a bit conservative, and ergonomics. Unfortunately the build quality of my fully loaded 550i was disappointing. The center vent assembly wasn't seated properly. It stuck out over the silver trim below in the lower left and in the middle. The leather stitching on the passengers handle was rough and did not align properly. On the driver's door handle the leather was puckered. On the exterior front hood and trunk lid had places where they had alignment issues with adjacent surfaces. HUD didn't work properly about a third of the time and did not display all of the information shown in the arrow display. I am inclined to think BMW needs to pay more attention to driving characteristics and build quality and less emphasis on electronic doo-dads.
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      07-14-2010, 04:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
I took delivery of my 2011 550i yesterday doing BMW Euro Delivery at the BMW Welt in Munich. That was a great experience. I put 250 miles on the car yesterday and today driving to Prague. My prior car is a 2008 550i with the M-Sport Package with Active Steering. I prefer the steering of my E60. For my taste the steering on the F10 feels a bit loose and not sporty. My 2011 550i has Dynamic Handling Control which I dislike. At the comfort setting the F10 rides like a boat. I cannot imagine anyone that would buy a BMW would ever use that setting. Normal is not much better. I just leave the car in Sport or Sport+. Comparing those 2 settings to my E60 M-Sport Sport Suspension, I much prefer the ride of the E60. I am happy in general with the F10, but I wish that it were more athletic or sport oriented. I want a SPORTS Sedan, not a COMPROMISED SPORTS Sedan. I like the design, although it is a bit conservative, and ergonomics. Unfortunately the build quality of my fully loaded 550i was disappointing. The center vent assembly wasn't seated properly. It stuck out over the silver trim below in the lower left and in the middle. The leather stitching on the passengers handle was rough and did not align properly. On the driver's door handle the leather was puckered. On the exterior front hood and trunk lid had places where they had alignment issues with adjacent surfaces. HUD didn't work properly about a third of the time and did not display all of the information shown in the arrow display. I am inclined to think BMW needs to pay more attention to driving characteristics and build quality and less emphasis on electronic doo-dads.
What a shocking review of a new 550i !!! To summarize your thoughts, your previous E60 M-Sport both rode and steered better than your new F10 !
And the build quality has gone way downhill.

Had I taken delivery of your new 550i @ the BMW Welt and had I observed the litany of sloppy workmanship that you have mentioned, I would have promptly driven the car back to the factory and demanded a full refund.
There is no excuse for this kind of slap-dash build quality from a premier manufacturer like BMW.
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      07-14-2010, 05:19 PM   #56
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Those defects were observed after I took delivery and we were on the road to the road to Prague. BMW is a fine company. I am sure that those items will be taken care of. The quality control folks must have been napping when my my 550i went through. There is clearly an issue with the size of the vent assembly or the size of the opening in the wood panel. Plus the silver lip below the vents highlights any imperfection.
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      07-14-2010, 07:22 PM   #57
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Quote:
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The quality control folks must have been napping when my my 550i went through.
This statement is not exactly a vote of confidence for the F10.
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      07-14-2010, 07:36 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
Those defects were observed after I took delivery and we were on the road to the road to Prague. BMW is a fine company. I am sure that those items will be taken care of. The quality control folks must have been napping when my my 550i went through. There is clearly an issue with the size of the vent assembly or the size of the opening in the wood panel. Plus the silver lip below the vents highlights any imperfection.
Sorry to hear about your experience. The steering feel is the primary reason I am switching to an E90 M3 when my lease is up in October. I love my 2008 550 but BMW seems to have swung a bit too far to the luxury side of the equation, sacrificing the driving feel. If I wanted to cruise around feeling like I was floating on a cloud, I'd be driving a 7...
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      07-14-2010, 07:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
My prior car is a 2008 550i with the M-Sport Package with Active Steering. I prefer the steering of my E60. For my taste the steering on the F10 feels a bit loose and not sporty. My 2011 550i has Dynamic Handling Control which I dislike. At the comfort setting the F10 rides like a boat. I cannot imagine anyone that would buy a BMW would ever use that setting. Normal is not much better. I just leave the car in Sport or Sport+. Comparing those 2 settings to my E60 M-Sport Sport Suspension, I much prefer the ride of the E60. I am happy in general with the F10, but I wish that it were more athletic or sport oriented. I want a SPORTS Sedan, not a COMPROMISED SPORTS Sedan. I like the design, although it is a bit conservative, and ergonomics.
Good information in your post. The E60 M sport suspension rides sportier than the F10 in sport mode adaptive drive. Can the chassis and drive train be adjusted using the iDrive to make it even "tighter"?

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      07-15-2010, 01:49 AM   #60
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No. The best that you can do is to set Sport Mode to lower the sport characteristics of either the chassis or drive train or even both.

Also with the F10 the gas mileage is not good so far. With the E60 I got 24 mph on the highway. So far I have been getting 19.8 mpg here. That is probably due to my driving. The 550 engine is quite robust, noticeably more so than my prior 2008 550.

Another goofy thing that BMW is doing in the US is that this fall you can apparently only get the M-Sport sport suspension with M-Sport body panels. The body panels of the M-Sport are even more aggressive looking than my 2008 M-Sport. Rather than big brother BMW NA making choices for me, I would rather get the driving feel of BMW sport suspension without the boy racer look of M-Sport body panels.
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      07-15-2010, 02:06 AM   #61
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I just test drove a 535i yesterday and I can agree with lots of the negative comments.
My biggest gripe is that you can't hear the engine!! Every BMW I've ever driven has always had that glorious signature inline-6 growl to it. They've total muffled out the BMW-ness of the 5-series. It just felt/sounded like a Lexus to me.
I wish I had snagged up one of the last E60 535i M-Sports.
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      07-15-2010, 02:53 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
No. The best that you can do is to set Sport Mode to lower the sport characteristics of either the chassis or drive train or even both.
Does it mean that your iDrive has adjusted the chassis and drive train to the tightest mode? Hmmm ... is the M sport suspension on the f10 tighter than adaptive drive at its sportiest mode?
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      07-15-2010, 05:47 AM   #63
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The most robust mode is Sport+ but it reduces the gas mileage too much. Since the M-Sport Suspension for the F10 is not out, it is impossible to compare to the settings to the Dynamic Handling Control. However my E60 with the M-Sport Suspension and my earlier 2001 530 with the Sport Package were more solid at high speed on the Autobahn. They were unbelievable solid at 133 mph and quiet. You literally could not tell that you were going that fast except for the speedometer and the small cars that you blew by like they were standing still. I took my 550 up to 100 mph, the max for the break in period, in Sport+ and it did not feel as solid in general largely because the steering is not as firm when going straight at high speed. The F10 is noisier at high speed with more wind noise through the driver's door seals. However that could have been a function of the highways that I was on.

Don't get me wrong, I think the F10 is a fine car and we are dealing with my impressions and recollections. However it can be said with certainty that the F10 550i with the Dynamic Handling Package and steering is not as athletic as my E60 M-Sport.550i.

I should have waited for the M-Sport 550i, but BMW NA stupidly kept it a big secret until it was too late for me. BMW NA makes some stupid decisions for the US Market. They are both secretive in comparison to BMW in Europe plus the Europeans get better choices and information. And they get the good stuff right away. They get more control over their options, We get large packages that contain some marginal or useless options. Plus BMW NA has historically kept the M-Sport options out of the US Market for very long periods of time. BMW NA did not make the E60 M-Sport Package available until 4 years after the E60 was released.

I would give BMW NA an F- for communication on the future availability of the M-Sport Suspension. They get an an F for the packaging of options. BMW gets a C- for getting away from the Sport Aspect of the 5 Series and creating electronic doo dads when mechanical approaches worked better.

Another aspect of the F10 that is disappointing is the seats. The side bolsters are not adjustable for some stupid reason on the F10 like the E60 Comfort Seats. When you corner at high speed you tend to slide in your seat which is disconcerting.

The F10 has shifted away from the core values of BMW and the reasons that I have purchased 5 BMW's. The F10 is one giant compromise designed to appeal to a broader market and an older group. This includes everything about the car. The F10 exterior design is very safe and not very innovative. The driving characteristics due to the size of the car and over reliance on electronics create artificial sport characteristics. BMW has lost its way.
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      07-15-2010, 06:35 AM   #64
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      07-15-2010, 11:05 AM   #65
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I was planning to drive a 535i with the sport package this week to see if it "fixed" the poor feel of the steering on the base model, but now I wonder if I should even bother. What I find funny is that one of the dealers I've worked with seems to think that the new steering is better, but he also likes the active steering on the '11 X5, which I found to be awful.

One thing that would be interesting is for the owners of these cars to try to differentiate the feel from the weight of the steering. Like many others, I don't care for the lightness of the steering as it reminds me too much of the various Lexus'/Lexi/whatever that my wife has owned. However, I haven't driven the new 5 long enough to say whether or not it effectively communicates the "feel" of the road, which may well be distinct from the weight.

It would be interesting to have some sort of "dynamic steering" option where the driver could adjust certain parameters. When I test drove a new 5 and then a new X5 (without active steering), I immediately grinned and thought "now that's the way that the steering wheel is supposed to feel!" The steering wasn't overly heavy, but it had a weighted and more "purposeful" feel to it. I actually think the '11 X5 has a better steering feel than my '07 e92 335i, a car that I enjoy driving.
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      07-15-2010, 11:10 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
The F10 has shifted away from the core values of BMW and the reasons that I have purchased 5 BMW's. The F10 is one giant compromise designed to appeal to a broader market and an older group. This includes everything about the car. The F10 exterior design is very safe and not very innovative. The driving characteristics due to the size of the car and over reliance on electronics create artificial sport characteristics. BMW has lost its way.
Having owned and driven both 3 Series and 5 Series over the past 26 years and having driven the F10 535i, I sadly agree with your concluding remarks.

To put it simply, the F10 (with Sport Package), to me at least, did not feel like driving a BMW. If I had been driving with blinders on, I would most likely have thought I was steering a Lexus. The almost total absence of engine sounds (and BMW is renowned for some glorious ones !!!) and the ponderous feeling at the non-communicative helm gave me the impression that I was driving some kind of limo - rather than a BMW 5er. At the conclusion of my test drive when it came time for me to park the car back at the dealership, the lack of agility (long wheelbase + wide turning circle) reinforced the car's limo-like quality.
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