[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Good theory. Shouldn't a tune be able to override the ecu?

its not s tune it's a piggy back.... there is no track open with in a 6 hour drive from me because of the snow on East coast... 1st day track opens 22nd i will be there. i ran 12.1 with stage 1 only... now have stage 2/ Down pipes/ 3 inch exhaust lets see what happens.

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

its not s tune it's a piggy back.... there is no track open with in a 6 hour drive from me because of the snow on East coast... 1st day track opens 22nd i will be there. i ran 12.1 with stage 1 only... now have stage 2/ Down pipes/ 3 inch exhaust lets see what happens.

You ran 12.1 with downpipes race gas and higher boost with beta stage 2 right? You think the 3" exhaust is worth another 2 tenths?

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

You ran 12.1 with downpipes race gas and higher boost with beta stage 2 right? You think the 3" exhaust is worth another 2 tenths?

no i ran 12.1 with stage 1 on race gas everything else stock....

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

no i ran 12.1 with stage 1 on race gas everything else stock....

So you haven't run with the downpipes yet?

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

So you haven't run with the downpipes yet?

i also ran with down pipes the trap got higher but could not get better than 12.1 ... so down pipes did not do much on their own

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i also ran with down pipes the trap got higher but could not get better than 12.1 ... so down pipes did not do much on their own

That's what i thought. You got about 1 mph higher but saw no better time. So what's changed since your last run. Exhaust right? You think that's worth 2 tenths?

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

That's what i thought. You got about 1 mph higher but saw no better time. So what's changed since your last run. Exhaust right? You think that's worth 2 tenths?

exhaust and stage 2 do you even read what i write......

[Artur-F10]

A bit of topic, but I installed JB4 stage 2 on my 535i. Drove for three days. Raced with stock 535i and i didnt win. The result was same as when we raced without JB4. The cars went identically.
So, I don't know why they claim 80hp, if there is no difference compared to stock in performance.
I was on map 1 and we raced from 40mph - 100

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Good theory. Shouldn't a tune be able to override the ecu?

I totally agree. Maybe one day.

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by Artur-F10

A bit of topic, but I installed JB4 stage 2 on my 535i. Drove for three days. Raced with stock 535i and i didnt win. The result was same as when we raced without JB4. The cars went identically.
So, I don't know why they claim 80hp, if there is no difference compared to stock in performance.
I was on map 1 and we raced from 40mph - 100

Only difference was jb4? You don't have any other mods?
Any passengers? Maybe you had a really fat friend with you in the car haha.

Or maybe the other car lieing to you about mods
No way a stock vs jb4 will win.

Maybe you were in eco pro mode?
I'd go ask the 535 guys

[combatbmw]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

So you haven't run with the downpipes yet?

I'm truly convinced that downpipe yield nothing on our cars unless they get a tune.
I think the extra speed of turbo spool scaring the ecu. LoL

[Mbbrewer]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

I'm truly convinced that downpipe yield morning on our cars unless they get a tune.
I think the extra speed of turbo spool scaring the ecu. LoL

That sucks. Hopefully there's a way this can be fixed.

[scott135i]

This is a funny fucking thread. So many of you guys new to the BMW tuning scene without a lot of information and history.

The BMS stage 1 for both the Tu and non-Tu are not ecu tunes. They are piggyback devices which allow the engine to make greater than stock power on its own by sending slightly altered signal, within the limits of the ecu configuration and programming/logic. These ecu's are and have been load based for a while. That means they have algorithms to read various sensors for data to determine how much boost, fuel, timing ect to make based on a given load target... I.E. These cars target to run more boost in hot weather / higher altitude to compensate and try to hit their programmed load targets.

The stage 1 setups tap into a single type of sensor (tmap/maf) to simulate conditions to the car to make more power, safely as proven by the 1000s of tunes sold by BMS. There is nothing crazy going on about these from an overall design perspective but they do an excellent job in making more power, especially for the price.

As far as ecu tuning, no tuners have cracked the new ecu's fully. Some have cracked some areas, but not all. A full ecu tune allows for a full mapping change for boost, timing and fuel tables among others. This is the ideal tuning but it's just not available on this platform besides dinan which I don't not believe even they have absolute ecu control, at least yet. Even Cobb for the n54/n55 hasn't been able to access the entire ecu like what's possible on corvettes, mustang, evo's, gtr's ect. Plus, a proper dyno tune setup typically costs hundreds of dollars more, and is not DIY or easily reversible and can be detected and/or overridden by the dealer when in for service or maintenance work.

There is nothing wrong with these stage 1 tunes. They do their job and do it well. The fact that some cars make more power or slightly different power curves is to be expected given the way these tunes work and the load based operation of the engine.

It's the stage 2 tunes in general from BMS and others that really take over more control setting definitive boost/timing/fuel targets for the ecu to hit, along with tapping into the cars ecu directly for more signal control a la CANBUS. Read up on the n54 jb4 or Vishnu procede setup. However the stage 2 for the n63 setup doesn't have the same full integration that the stage 2 does for the other n54/n55 cars do to extremely difficulty in tackling the CANBUS (and new setup for which I can't recall the difference in name) system in the ecu / electronics network of the car that has evolved into a much more advanced setup in the new F-series cars. This doesn't stop stage 2 from being effective for the n63 however and I expect the same for if/when it comes out for the n63tu. With BMS having a shop car f10 m5, the likelihood of this happening is greater than ever but still not confirmed.

For any dinan owner... You don't need to get defensive. People who haven't gotten the dinan setup on account of price (which is high) or performance gains (which are moderate compared to other ecu tunes like Cobb and piggybacks... across all Bmw platforms) have made that decision. There is no doubt that on the f10 platform, the BMS setups have yielded faster overall cars. Sure they lack the tuning refinements of an ecu tune setup, but they're faster until proven otherwise. Heck, tons of people have dinan not installed or not installed correctly. That's damn embarrassing for the price and history of dinan itself. Dinan is the right thing for some people and not for others, like all things in life. But fact is, they traditionally never perform as well as basically every other tuning setup in the BMW scene, N54/n55/s54/s65 included, and many more. The refinement is there, and basically unrivaled, just not overall power.

So the moral is, in my opinion and from my perspective, be happy with what you have. Or don't have. From personal experience:

The BMS stage 1 Tu setup is obviously yielding tremendous gains over stock, especially when compared with the s1 gains on the non-Tu setup.

The BMS stage 2 on the non-Tu is a massive improvement over the stage 1.

The dinan s5 (only one I have driven) setup is excellent. Better throttle response, smoother and more broad power and gains, and very freaking expensive. For me, tough to justify price especially since it's a lease. If I owned the car, I would have taken that extra money and bought a less loaded m5 with a proper snow tire setup and called it a day.

Ok... Sunday morning rant over. The lady is waking up and I must stop typing. Hate away....

[Mbbrewer]

Don't think anyone is looking to compare the tuning companies but rather have a better understanding of what, if anything can be done to fix the issue with the car loosing significant power in higher rpms with BMS tunes. It's unfortunate that the tune would cause the ecu to cut power which negates other power upgrades like downpipes or exhaust. We're lucky to have members on the board to test these mods and report their results so the rest of us can make informed decisions based on factual data.

[alextremo]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Don't think anyone is looking to compare the tuning companies but rather have a better understanding of what, if anything can be done to fix the issue with the car loosing significant power in higher rpms with BMS tunes. It's unfortunate that the tune would cause the ecu to cut power which negates other power upgrades like downpipes or exhaust. We're lucky to have members on the board to test these mods and report their results so the rest of us can make informed decisions based on factual data.

I would expect that without 'direct' control over timing the tune is aggressively ramping down boost at higher RPMs to avoid detonation.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Mbbrewer

Why would you want a tune that falls on its face like that? What is BMS doing to fix this issue? I'd pass until this is resolved.

You're joking right? You know the OEM makes MUCH less power up top than the Stage1 tune? The DME is sloping power down on some Tu motors due to an internal mapping both stock and tuned. You still make much more power than stock though.

[Artur-F10]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

Only difference was jb4? You don't have any other mods?
Any passengers? Maybe you had a really fat friend with you in the car haha.

Or maybe the other car lieing to you about mods
No way a stock vs jb4 will win.

Maybe you were in eco pro mode?
I'd go ask the 535 guys

I also had BMS intake, thats it.
no passengers
both in sport + mode
we raced before, and same result
other guy has no mods, he is my close friend.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by ARadoncic550

2014 BMW 550XI TU With BMS Stage 1.
Dynojet
93 Octane
40 Degrees

441HP
490TRQ

What do you guys think?

For an Xi using uncorrected numbers at the default tune setting these results are simply phenomenal. Can't wait to see how you do with race gas and the dial cranked up!

Mike

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by Artur-F10

I also had BMS intake, thats it.
no passengers
both in sport + mode
we raced before, and same result
other guy has no mods, he is my close friend.

i tell most of my friends i am stock... before my exhaust was done they wouldn't know the difference only when they are 10 cars behind me.. we had a guy who hangs out with us for many years call out a GTR caliming his 335i was stock turbos... after he smoked the GTR we found out he had RB turbo upgrrade.. i follow this rule "DTA" DON'T TRUST ANYBODY... our your tune not installed correctly.

[Artur-F10]

Originally Posted by badblack550xi

i tell most of my friends i am stock... before my exhaust was done they wouldn't know the difference only when they are 10 cars behind me.. we had a guy who hangs out with us for many years call out a GTR caliming his 335i was stock turbos... after he smoked the GTR we found out he had RB turbo upgrrade.. i follow this rule "DTA" DON'T TRUST ANYBODY... our your tune not installed correctly.

I am sure about that, it's not a question that his car is stock.
I thought if the tune is installed wrong it would give some errors

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by combatbmw

Only difference was jb4? You don't have any other mods?
Any passengers? Maybe you had a really fat friend with you in the car haha.

Or maybe the other car lieing to you about mods
No way a stock vs jb4 will win.

Maybe you were in eco pro mode?
I'd go ask the 535 guys

The F10 535s are pretty slow especially if he is in CA on 91 octane. Even with the JB4 in place they only make 25-30hp more than stock on 91 on map 1. They normally have to add downpipe and E85 fuel to really get moving compared to stock. So seems plausible car to car variance, traction, who floored it first, etc, could eat up that difference in a very short race. To really measure the gains there you'd have to do longer runs I'd think.

Mike

[ARC550]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

You're joking right? You know the OEM makes MUCH less power up top than the Stage1 tune? The DME is sloping power down on some Tu motors due to an internal mapping both stock and tuned. You still make much more power than stock though.

Mike, these dyno numbers arrested funky. The baseline stock numbers are low because the stage 1 tune was removed as the car was being strapped on to the dyno to show lower numbers. Then the stage 1 was put back on to show higher numbers. Great way to sell a product let me tell you.
My question is.. Why wasn't the car just dynoed while the stage 1 was already one and fully adapted? Instead of removing it as the car was being strapped on lol. Funky!! I call it false advertising.