F10 pulling to the right...

delvek · 03-23-2011, 10:51 AM

Its very funny all the "fixes" that I have heard and witnessed on my own car for this. I have personally not heard camber bolts, I hope this is the fix we have been looking for. Please keep us posted.

danTX28 · 03-23-2011, 11:14 AM

I purchased my 2011 535i sport on Feb 28, 2011 (only had 10 miles on it). I first brought it in on March 4 for severe pulling to the right. During the alignment check, they said they couldn't get the left chamfer-something into spec and that it needed to be replaced. 4 days later I received my car and there was still severe pulling to the right. I brought it back and my service rep admitted that the right side was just barely in spec and maybe more work needed to be done. The invoice after my 2nd visit listed a software upgrade of which I'd say mostly fixed the pulling issue, however there is still an issue with the car.

I'd currently describe the car as "drifty" and "loose." On a level road, the car will drift to the right after a few seconds. On long stretches of highway, the car will drift to the right more quickly and it requires huge amounts of steering correction to maintain a line. Driver fatigue sets in quite quickly. My 535i is now in the shop for the 3rd time and as a comparison, I just drove their 528i loaner down the same stretch of daily highway and there is minimal to no drift and steering corrections to maintain a straight line are so tiny. You can steer a 528i with 1 finger making minute corrections. The 535i, on the other hand, requires a full grip and constant large corrections.

Having read through this thread, I was curious to see if all 535i's were loose and drifty so I had my sales guy pick out another one and we went for a drive this morning. Guess what? Same drift to the right and the sales guy admitted he felt it. He also told me a story about how he used to work at Lexus and there was a similar issue with one of the IS series that came out several years back. Anyway, it was somewhat disheartening to have this experience because drifty and loose might just be the way these cars perform.

I'm waiting for a call from the service manager to let me know what else, if anything, can be done to tighten up the ride. Beyond that, I'm not sure I want to settle for such an imprecise precision machine. But honestly, what are the options? A Mercedes?

Thanks for reading! I'll post an update when I have one...
-dan

Needsdecaf · 03-23-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLM

I have a December build car (535xi), that I picked up a month ago. The car has pulled to the right since day one. I have about 900 miles on it and after drifting all over the road for the last month I finally couldn't take it anymore. I had the dealer look at it on Monday and there "top" technician spoke with a BMW engineer and the result is that they are going to replace the "camber bolts". The camber bolts should be arriving today or tomorrow, at that point they will schedule a time to install them, I will keep you posted if this works!

I have always maintained that I believe alignment is at the root cause of all of this. The car seems to have a pull with the camber issue, more than a pull to the right issue. Note that the RHD cars pull to the left. And I find that in the left lane, my car pulls to the left as well.

Moreso, my biggest problem isn't the pulling so much as the wandering on the highway and the extreme vulnerability to crosswinds. Which indicates a lack of straight line stability.

Needsdecaf · 03-23-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danTX28

I purchased my 2011 535i sport on Feb 28, 2011 (only had 10 miles on it). I first brought it in on March 4 for severe pulling to the right. During the alignment check, they said they couldn't get the left chamfer-something into spec and that it needed to be replaced. 4 days later I received my car and there was still severe pulling to the right. I brought it back and my service rep admitted that the right side was just barely in spec and maybe more work needed to be done. The invoice after my 2nd visit listed a software upgrade of which I'd say mostly fixed the pulling issue, however there is still an issue with the car.

I'd currently describe the car as "drifty" and "loose." On a level road, the car will drift to the right after a few seconds. On long stretches of highway, the car will drift to the right more quickly and it requires huge amounts of steering correction to maintain a line. Driver fatigue sets in quite quickly. My 535i is now in the shop for the 3rd time and as a comparison, I just drove their 528i loaner down the same stretch of daily highway and there is minimal to no drift and steering corrections to maintain a straight line are so tiny. You can steer a 528i with 1 finger making minute corrections. The 535i, on the other hand, requires a full grip and constant large corrections.

Having read through this thread, I was curious to see if all 535i's were loose and drifty so I had my sales guy pick out another one and we went for a drive this morning. Guess what? Same drift to the right and the sales guy admitted he felt it. He also told me a story about how he used to work at Lexus and there was a similar issue with one of the IS series that came out several years back. Anyway, it was somewhat disheartening to have this experience because drifty and loose might just be the way these cars perform.

I'm waiting for a call from the service manager to let me know what else, if anything, can be done to tighten up the ride. Beyond that, I'm not sure I want to settle for such an imprecise precision machine. But honestly, what are the options? A Mercedes?

Thanks for reading! I'll post an update when I have one...
-dan

This is my exact issue. Read your post after writing mine.

I do not believe it's isolated to any one particular model, it's more in line with the build dates. And I do not believe it's "how they all perform" as I have driven about 6 post September build 535's that don't have this issue.

danTX28 · 03-23-2011, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

I do not believe it's isolated to any one particular model, it's more in line with the build dates. And I do not believe it's "how they all perform" as I have driven about 6 post September build 535's that don't have this issue.

The dealership took delivery of my 535i in Feb 2011 but I don't know the build date. Where is that info?

Thanks,
-dan

RLM · 03-23-2011, 12:37 PM

When I brought my car is for the drifting/pulling to the right issue, I also notified them of my car having a very disconnected feel in the steering wheel, the car feels very unresponsive, the other issue I brought up was the throttle is also unresponsive.

The throttle sometimes has a 1sec delay, for example coming onto the freeway, and you stomp on the throttle there is nothing there for a second. the "lead technician" said the throttle issue and the unresponsive steering where within the specs for this model, but did acknowledge the drifting/pulling to the right issues as I stated in my other post. I just find it hard that a Ultimate Driving Machine has a disconnected feeling in the steering and throttle. This is mind blowing to me!!!! Let me finish by saying I love my car I just want it to drive like a BMW and track straight down the road (is this asking to much out of a 68K car)

Needsdecaf · 03-23-2011, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danTX28

The dealership took delivery of my 535i in Feb 2011 but I don't know the build date. Where is that info?

Thanks,
-dan

Door placard, think inside the driver's or rear driver's side door. Has your VIN on it and a build date, MM/YYYY.

delvek · 03-23-2011, 12:38 PM

Should be on the door jam. From what I have read it was build date specific to earlier models. Although there is no exact science to this.

danTX28 · 03-23-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RLM

When I brought my car is for the drifting/pulling to the right issue, I also notified them of my car having a very disconnected feel in the steering wheel, the car feels very unresponsive, the other issue I brought up was the throttle is also unresponsive.

The throttle sometimes has a 1sec delay, for example coming onto the freeway, and you stomp on the throttle there is nothing there for a second. the "lead technician" said the throttle issue and the unresponsive steering where within the specs for this model, but did acknowledge the drifting/pulling to the right issues as I stated in my other post. I just find it hard that a Ultimate Driving Machine has a disconnected feeling in the steering and throttle. This is mind blowing to me!!!! Let me finish by saying I love my car I just want it to drive like a BMW and track straight down the road (is this asking to much out of a 68K car)

I noticed the throttle delay from day 1. I have since gotten used to it but it surely was a disappointing shock, especially coming from my '06 330i which always had immediate engine response to the slightest throttle pressure.

F11-Diesel · 03-23-2011, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Door placard, think inside the driver's or rear driver's side door. Has your VIN on it and a build date, MM/YYYY.

It was there (drivers door) on the E60.
On the F10/11 I can not find the build date.
Did you find it on your car?

blackhawk_pilot2000 · 03-23-2011, 03:58 PM

Mine is a Dec 2010 535i build. It's been to the shop twice, it no longer pulls to the right as it used to before the sw update, however it does not seem to want to track straight neither. Now it goes towards whatever direction I last point the wheel to, it that makes any sense. It it very sensitive to road camber so if I drive on the left and the camber if slightly a left down slope it will follow it. So although it doesn't pull, I still have to input correction to keep it going straight. It's just not panted, it doesnt ride on rails.
I'm due for the first oil service and when I take it in I'll ask that they re look at this.

jc031662 · 03-23-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F11-Diesel

It was there (drivers door) on the E60.
On the F10/11 I can not find the build date.
Did you find it on your car?

It's located on the driver's side at the bottom of the center pillar between the doors. I've attached a pic for reference.

F11-Diesel · 03-24-2011, 03:06 AM

JC,
Thanks for your foto.
I found the plastic cap on the doorsil.
The sticker with the information is not on my car.
I will ask my SA what they did with it when I am gonig for changing my blizzaks for the Michelin summer tires.

Needsdecaf · 03-24-2011, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F11-Diesel

JC,
Thanks for your foto.
I found the plastic cap on the doorsil.
The sticker with the information is not on my car.
I will ask my SA what they did with it when I am gonig for changing my blizzaks for the Michelin summer tires.

Believe that sticker is only required in the US.

Needsdecaf · 03-24-2011, 11:36 AM

Well, I have some information that may be useful or may not: Alignment specs. Now, I am not an alignment expert so I don't know what typical values are (can't find the ones for my Volvo off the top of my head) but to me, it doesn't look like there's much toe in for stability.

These numbers are for F10, non-IAS, Sport package with 19" wheels. Interestingly it says "Sport suspension (with lowered ride height)". Eh?

All measurements in degrees.

Front:

Camber -1.0 to 0.0
Toe -0.02 to 0.18
Turning Angle Diff: -2.35 to -1.35

Cross Camber: -0.5 to 0.5
Cross Caster: -0.5 to 0.5
Total Toe: -0.03 to 0.37
Cross Turn Diff: -0.5 to 0.5

Rear:

Camber: -2.3 to -1.4 (no wonder the rears wear!)
Toe: 0.02 to 0.22

Cross Camber:-0.5 to 0.5
Total Toe: 0.03 to 0.43
Thrust Angle: -0.20 to 0.20

Thoughts?

danTX28 · 03-24-2011, 11:51 AM

Here is my update thus far... apparently there was a high level BMW tech in town but he was too busy to visit with my car and he won't be back for 3-4 weeks. In the meantime, they are not doing anything except test driving the car and claiming they don't feel any steering issues. However, they are continuing to work on it today and I'm hopeful they'll come up with something.

It is encouraging to hear that some folks are saying their lax steering issues were resolved but discouraging to hear from my dealership that they have no resolution. I mentioned the possible strut adjustment and mechatronic thing to my SA and he said he will look into it.

I have a feeling nothing will improve because my test drive of another brand new 535i yesterday morning showed the same drifty loose steering.

Will update again later... Thanks for reading.
-dan

My F10 has a December 2010 production date.

jc031662 · 03-24-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F11-Diesel

JC,
Thanks for your foto.
I found the plastic cap on the doorsil.
The sticker with the information is not on my car.
I will ask my SA what they did with it when I am gonig for changing my blizzaks for the Michelin summer tires.

Try going here and put in the last 7 digits of your VIN. Amongst other things, it should show you your "Production Date".

http://www.vehicleidentificationnumber.com/bmw.html

danTX28 · 03-30-2011, 01:42 PM

My appt with the "BMW engineer" is next Tuesday, which will be the 4th service visit on this steering problem. Four unresolved service visits qualifies you for the lemon law here and I'm really at the point where I want to return this car or negotiate a buy-back.

DuneMan · 03-31-2011, 01:21 AM

I have the same vague steering that needs constant correcting. My dealer says it might require alignment of the front axle. And if the problem's not gone, then the front axle wishbones may need to be replaced.

Taking it in next week for both throttle fix and steering fix. will update back soon.

Evil335i · 03-31-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DuneMan

I have the same vague steering that needs constant correcting. My dealer says it might require alignment of the front axle. And if the problem's not gone, then the front axle wishbones may need to be replaced.

Taking it in next week for both throttle fix and steering fix. will update back soon.

Honestly....I dont think it is alignment or front axle... Its all SOFTWARE! you took it in because of pulling to the right then they changed your software and u have this problem right? IMO just wait for a new software. Im pretty sure bmw is testing a bunch of softwares on the f10.

jc031662 · 03-31-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil335i

Honestly....I dont think it is alignment or front axle... Its all SOFTWARE! you took it in because of pulling to the right then they changed your software and u have this problem right? IMO just wait for a new software. Im pretty sure bmw is testing a bunch of softwares on the f10.

Sadly, they've been testing software fixes for this problem since the day after the first car rolled off the assembly line.

While the right hand pull has been somewhat minimized, the vague, down crappy steering remains unchanged. I know what I speak of - I'm on my 2nd F10. While I otherwise love the car, I would have preferred to get my $$$ back and gotten something else.

danTX28 · 03-31-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc031662

Sadly, they've been testing software fixes for this problem since the day after the first car rolled off the assembly line.

While the right hand pull has been somewhat minimized, the vague, down crappy steering remains unchanged. I know what I speak of - I'm on my 2nd F10. While I otherwise love the car, I would have preferred to get my $$$ back and gotten something else.

Forgive me if I missed the full story on your first F10. Did the dealership offer to swap your car when they couldn't fix the steering? That has been subtly proposed to me as a possible option if my upcoming 4th service visit yields no positive results but I'm going to insist on a buy-back or use the lemon law. I'm not going to wait around for a possible software update that may or may not come.

Thanks!

03-23-2011, 10:51 AM	#397
delvek Major 33 Rep 1,134 Posts Drives: 2014 550i Msport Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (0)	Its very funny all the "fixes" that I have heard and witnessed on my own car for this. I have personally not heard camber bolts, I hope this is the fix we have been looking for. Please keep us posted. __________________ 2014 550i M-sport
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-23-2011, 11:14 AM	#398
danTX28 New Member 0 Rep 10 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 535i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Texas USA iTrader: (0)	I purchased my 2011 535i sport on Feb 28, 2011 (only had 10 miles on it). I first brought it in on March 4 for severe pulling to the right. During the alignment check, they said they couldn't get the left chamfer-something into spec and that it needed to be replaced. 4 days later I received my car and there was still severe pulling to the right. I brought it back and my service rep admitted that the right side was just barely in spec and maybe more work needed to be done. The invoice after my 2nd visit listed a software upgrade of which I'd say mostly fixed the pulling issue, however there is still an issue with the car. I'd currently describe the car as "drifty" and "loose." On a level road, the car will drift to the right after a few seconds. On long stretches of highway, the car will drift to the right more quickly and it requires huge amounts of steering correction to maintain a line. Driver fatigue sets in quite quickly. My 535i is now in the shop for the 3rd time and as a comparison, I just drove their 528i loaner down the same stretch of daily highway and there is minimal to no drift and steering corrections to maintain a straight line are so tiny. You can steer a 528i with 1 finger making minute corrections. The 535i, on the other hand, requires a full grip and constant large corrections. Having read through this thread, I was curious to see if all 535i's were loose and drifty so I had my sales guy pick out another one and we went for a drive this morning. Guess what? Same drift to the right and the sales guy admitted he felt it. He also told me a story about how he used to work at Lexus and there was a similar issue with one of the IS series that came out several years back. Anyway, it was somewhat disheartening to have this experience because drifty and loose might just be the way these cars perform. I'm waiting for a call from the service manager to let me know what else, if anything, can be done to tighten up the ride. Beyond that, I'm not sure I want to settle for such an imprecise precision machine. But honestly, what are the options? A Mercedes? Thanks for reading! I'll post an update when I have one... -dan
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-23-2011, 12:37 PM	#402
RLM New Member 2 Rep 20 Posts Drives: BMW F10 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: washington iTrader: (0)	When I brought my car is for the drifting/pulling to the right issue, I also notified them of my car having a very disconnected feel in the steering wheel, the car feels very unresponsive, the other issue I brought up was the throttle is also unresponsive. The throttle sometimes has a 1sec delay, for example coming onto the freeway, and you stomp on the throttle there is nothing there for a second. the "lead technician" said the throttle issue and the unresponsive steering where within the specs for this model, but did acknowledge the drifting/pulling to the right issues as I stated in my other post. I just find it hard that a Ultimate Driving Machine has a disconnected feeling in the steering and throttle. This is mind blowing to me!!!! Let me finish by saying I love my car I just want it to drive like a BMW and track straight down the road (is this asking to much out of a 68K car)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-23-2011, 12:38 PM	#404
delvek Major 33 Rep 1,134 Posts Drives: 2014 550i Msport Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tampa, FL iTrader: (0)	Should be on the door jam. From what I have read it was build date specific to earlier models. Although there is no exact science to this. __________________ 2014 550i M-sport
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-23-2011, 03:58 PM	#407
blackhawk_pilot2000 Private 2 Rep 71 Posts Drives: 2011, BMW 535i Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	Mine is a Dec 2010 535i build. It's been to the shop twice, it no longer pulls to the right as it used to before the sw update, however it does not seem to want to track straight neither. Now it goes towards whatever direction I last point the wheel to, it that makes any sense. It it very sensitive to road camber so if I drive on the left and the camber if slightly a left down slope it will follow it. So although it doesn't pull, I still have to input correction to keep it going straight. It's just not panted, it doesnt ride on rails. I'm due for the first oil service and when I take it in I'll ask that they re look at this.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-24-2011, 03:06 AM	#409
F11-Diesel Private First Class 9 Rep 108 Posts Drives: F11 530 D Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Netherlands iTrader: (0)	JC, Thanks for your foto. I found the plastic cap on the doorsil. The sticker with the information is not on my car. I will ask my SA what they did with it when I am gonig for changing my blizzaks for the Michelin summer tires.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-24-2011, 11:36 AM	#411
Needsdecaf Major General 6677 Rep 6,732 Posts Drives: 2024 G80 Comp xDrive Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: The Woodlands, TX iTrader: (0)	Well, I have some information that may be useful or may not: Alignment specs. Now, I am not an alignment expert so I don't know what typical values are (can't find the ones for my Volvo off the top of my head) but to me, it doesn't look like there's much toe in for stability. These numbers are for F10, non-IAS, Sport package with 19" wheels. Interestingly it says "Sport suspension (with lowered ride height)". Eh? All measurements in degrees. Front: Camber -1.0 to 0.0 Toe -0.02 to 0.18 Turning Angle Diff: -2.35 to -1.35 Cross Camber: -0.5 to 0.5 Cross Caster: -0.5 to 0.5 Total Toe: -0.03 to 0.37 Cross Turn Diff: -0.5 to 0.5 Rear: Camber: -2.3 to -1.4 (no wonder the rears wear!) Toe: 0.02 to 0.22 Cross Camber:-0.5 to 0.5 Total Toe: 0.03 to 0.43 Thrust Angle: -0.20 to 0.20 Thoughts?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-24-2011, 11:51 AM	#412
danTX28 New Member 0 Rep 10 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 535i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Texas USA iTrader: (0)	Here is my update thus far... apparently there was a high level BMW tech in town but he was too busy to visit with my car and he won't be back for 3-4 weeks. In the meantime, they are not doing anything except test driving the car and claiming they don't feel any steering issues. However, they are continuing to work on it today and I'm hopeful they'll come up with something. It is encouraging to hear that some folks are saying their lax steering issues were resolved but discouraging to hear from my dealership that they have no resolution. I mentioned the possible strut adjustment and mechatronic thing to my SA and he said he will look into it. I have a feeling nothing will improve because my test drive of another brand new 535i yesterday morning showed the same drifty loose steering. Will update again later... Thanks for reading. -dan My F10 has a December 2010 production date. Last edited by danTX28; 03-24-2011 at 01:56 PM.. Reason: update.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-30-2011, 01:42 PM	#414
danTX28 New Member 0 Rep 10 Posts Drives: 2011 BMW 535i Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Texas USA iTrader: (0)	My appt with the "BMW engineer" is next Tuesday, which will be the 4th service visit on this steering problem. Four unresolved service visits qualifies you for the lemon law here and I'm really at the point where I want to return this car or negotiate a buy-back.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2011, 01:21 AM	#415
DuneMan Private First Class 34 Rep 144 Posts Drives: 2011 535i, Sophisto Gray Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Arabia iTrader: (0)	I have the same vague steering that needs constant correcting. My dealer says it might require alignment of the front axle. And if the problem's not gone, then the front axle wishbones may need to be replaced. Taking it in next week for both throttle fix and steering fix. will update back soon.
	Appreciate 0 Quote