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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Whats with the lack of 6MT f10s?
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      02-02-2015, 08:04 AM   #1
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Whats with the lack of 6MT f10s?

Seriously, I search them up on major car buying websites and theres only like 300 compared to the 10,000 or more automatics!

I would explain it as the middle aged men that buy F10s want the luxury feature of an automatic, but you all very well know that there are quite a lot of young F10 owners (20-40?) too, I'd expect them to get a manual just because they're fun (Especially with a V8 ). I dont think manuals are THAT obsolete yet right?

Right? Am I crazy or do others share my confusion?
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      02-02-2015, 08:29 AM   #2
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Last thing I worry about in mine is wishing it had a 6MT, honestly.
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      02-02-2015, 08:52 AM   #3
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The take rate on the MTs was essentially zero. Nobody wanted them so BMW stopped sending them over. The F10 chassis seems to want to avoid doing anything other than move in a straight line, so in that car a 6MT seems counterintuitive. It made more sense in the E60.

And, as a 43 year old, I don't really appreciate the ad hominem inference. For every 20-something guy who even knows how to drive a stick, there are probably 20 of us in our 40s who have owned and loved more than one MT car.
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Last edited by WilliCO; 02-02-2015 at 09:08 AM..
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      02-02-2015, 09:34 AM   #4
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This post probably will get you more BroPoints on Jalopnik than here. Although the F10 is too nice for that site, truthfully since it isn't old, brown and diesel.
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      02-02-2015, 09:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSBro View Post
This post probably will get you more BroPoints on Jalopnik than here. Although the F10 is too nice for that site, truthfully since it isn't old, brown and diesel.
What do you mean?
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      02-02-2015, 10:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Johnson View Post
Seriously, I search them up on major car buying websites and theres only like 300 compared to the 10,000 or more automatics!

I would explain it as the middle aged men that buy F10s want the luxury feature of an automatic, but you all very well know that there are quite a lot of young F10 owners (20-40?) too, I'd expect them to get a manual just because they're fun (Especially with a V8 ). I dont think manuals are THAT obsolete yet right?
Yes, yes they are, for me personally that's unfortunate, but try to find car in this category that has manual transmission, they are super rare, especially in last 2-3 years.

This has been argued in this and other forums before, and while I get the benefits of great new automatic transmissions, I too am saddened by the lack of interest and availability of manuals. I'd argue that even knowing how to drive one makes you a better and safer driver, but that's an argument for another thread.

As for BMW, Audi or Benz, they simply did the math after they realized that people who buy this type of car do not care for manual transmission and simply stopped offering them, sucks, but, hard to argue facts.
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      02-02-2015, 12:44 PM   #7
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I can't understand the notion of equating manual with fun and automatic with boring especially when most modern automatics have manual mode. For me, I don't wanna have to shift gears myself during daily commute in anything over $50k, people who like that clearly live in rural areas that have no traffic.
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      02-02-2015, 12:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigK View Post
I can't understand the notion of equating manual with fun and automatic with boring especially when most modern automatics have manual mode. For me, I don't wanna have to shift gears myself during daily commute in anything over $50k, people who like that clearly live in rural areas that have no traffic.
Well, generally they ARE more fun, you can do burnouts, its easier to drift. I think its that Manual = Sporty and Automatic = Luxury. And you usually have more fun in a sports car rather than a luxury car. Maybe its just a stereotype that manuals are more fun? You tell me.
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      02-02-2015, 08:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das Johnson View Post
Seriously, I search them up on major car buying websites and theres only like 300 compared to the 10,000 or more automatics!

I would explain it as the middle aged men that buy F10s want the luxury feature of an automatic, but you all very well know that there are quite a lot of young F10 owners (20-40?) too, I'd expect them to get a manual just because they're fun (Especially with a V8 ). I dont think manuals are THAT obsolete yet right?

Right? Am I crazy or do others share my confusion?
I share your confusion. For me there is zero enjoyment to be had from driving an automatic, no matter what car. I was perfectly happy to drive a manual transmission through brutal DC traffic every day just for the rare occasions when a manual transmission becomes fun.

I had to look for my 535i for a good while before I found something I wanted. And I was only looking at 535i, no x-drive, no 528, no 550, no GT, so there were not a lot of cars to pick from at any given time. If you are actively in the market all I can say is be patient.
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      02-02-2015, 09:27 PM   #10
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For better or worse, today's automatics shift faster and get better fuel mileage than their manual counterparts, so manuals are on their way out.
You can still have fun with the F10 paddles. The sport auto trans rev matches and has launch control - not the same as a manual of course, but still gives you some control.
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      02-03-2015, 02:31 AM   #11
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Well you folks do have the option to order an M5 manual, I take it the lack of MT is down to buyers not opting for it, rather BMW not offering the option.
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      02-03-2015, 03:18 AM   #12
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Well.
I was the same before, wanted a manual in my cars, not any more, and I'm not 40 quite yet.

I got an old BMW with an auto, have I regretted it, no, but I do see the limitations of a 25 year old 4 speed auto.
Even being completely rebuilt it is a long way from modern ones.
Still have the car

I then got an e46 M3 SMG, flappy paddles all the way, loved it, had it for 6 years.
Got my F11 with sports auto with paddles, and honestly this thing is almost as fast as the SMG in the M3.

I see no need for a manual, and haven't had one in almost 7 years.

If you can't do burnout or powerslides with an automatic, you didn't get a big enough engine.
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      02-03-2015, 12:26 PM   #13
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Reasons why you won't see many F10 manuals:

1. Average age for the F10 is well above 50
2. It's a luxury car, not a sports car
3. Most F10 buyers are in the city or near the city where a manual is pure frustration.
4. Dealers don't stock manuals
5. Auto is more efficient and faster
6. Certain features don't work with manuals or have limited function.
7. Less people know how to drive manuals
8. Flappy paddles
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      02-03-2015, 12:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 493263 View Post
Reasons why you won't see many F10 manuals:

1. Average age for the F10 is well above 50
2. It's a luxury car, not a sports car
3. Most F10 buyers are in the city or near the city where a manual is pure frustration.
4. Dealers don't stock manuals
5. Auto is more efficient and faster
6. Certain features don't work with manuals or have limited function.
7. Less people know how to drive manuals
8. Flappy paddles
You nailed it.
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      02-03-2015, 01:25 PM   #15
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I had a 535i 6MT. I had to order it. It was a nice manual experience. But the clutch was not set up to be super-sporty. The clutch had a pretty laid-back feel to it. The shifter was nice and solid though. Didn't have to worry about getting a short-shift kit.
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      02-03-2015, 01:37 PM   #16
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I'd only driven manual cars before I got the F10 with SAT, and I don't miss the manual one bit.
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      02-03-2015, 03:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mko9 View Post
I share your confusion. For me there is zero enjoyment to be had from driving an automatic, no matter what car. I was perfectly happy to drive a manual transmission through brutal DC traffic every day just for the rare occasions when a manual transmission becomes fun.
I live in DC and there's no such thing as a "rare occasion when a manual tranny becomes fun" for the following reasons:

1. Roads were designed by kids with crayons
2. Excessive amounts of intersection lights(even when there's no intersection, they even have stop lights at bus stops just so pedestrians can cross the street!, stop lights out of every freaking plaza for no reason, etc...)
3. Pedestrians are everywhere and will cross roads randomly.
4. Insane amount of speed cams everywhere.
5. Insane amounts of cops
6. A traffic circle like Dupont Circle would have over 30 stop lights, defeating the whole purpose of the circle. And to make a right turn, you have to be on the left lane!
7. You have a chaotic mix of drivers: slow as dirt, wreckless, randomly stops and just leave the car, confused tourists, etc..
8. Bicyclists!! my God, they ride around like no rules apply to them, run stop lights, cross into your lane and expect you to slam the brakes, etc...
9. Most Highways are packed every single day. The worst one is I-66 where you couldn't tell if it's a weekday or weekend.
10. Constant construction and reroutes, yet it's always messed up....I think they just make problems so they have jobs.
11. Pot holes and other obstacles
12. Traffic is constantly packed throughout most of the day

The 3.5 years I lived here, I have found 0 occasions to have fun with a manual or even come close to using half the power in my 550. For me to drive 3 miles, it would take about 30 minutes. When I first got here and had a manual sports car(3000GT), I felt like I burned my clutch just getting across the city because of the constant stop and go.
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      02-06-2015, 06:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 493263 View Post
Reasons why you won't see many F10 manuals:

1. Average age for the F10 is well above 50
2. It's a luxury car, not a sports car
3. Most F10 buyers are in the city or near the city where a manual is pure frustration.
4. Dealers don't stock manuals
5. Auto is more efficient and faster
6. Certain features don't work with manuals or have limited function.
7. Less people know how to drive manuals
8. Flappy paddles
This.

Honestly, this can't be a serious question. Hell, you can't even buy a FERRARI with a manual any longer, and you're wondering why you can't find a 4300lb luxury sedan with one???
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      02-06-2015, 09:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ezmaass View Post
This.

Honestly, this can't be a serious question. Hell, you can't even buy a FERRARI with a manual any longer, and you're wondering why you can't find a 4300lb luxury sedan with one???
BMW, Audi , and Cadillac still offer manuals in 4,000+ pound cars. It's not an unreasonable question at all.
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      02-06-2015, 10:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 493263 View Post
I live in DC and there's no such thing as a "rare occasion when a manual tranny becomes fun" for the following reasons:
The rare occasions it became fun are known as VIR and Summit Point. Also, WDCR SCCA out at FedEx Field.
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      02-06-2015, 10:46 PM   #21
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The last 5 series I ordered with a manual was my E39 530 sport stick. It was also, by far, my best 5 series. That was a very different 5 series than the current F10.

The F10 is a very nice car, but even with DHP it is a boring drive. ENjoy the drive, enjoy the stereo, enjoy the luxury. Its not a car you are going to "enjoy" driving.

BMW definitely fucked this car up.

My 2012 vert lease is up in 18 months. I'm buying that car off lease and adding a facelifted M3 with a MT.
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      02-07-2015, 12:06 AM   #22
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by 493263 View Post
Reasons why you won't see many F10 manuals:

1. Average age for the F10 is well above 50
2. It's a luxury car, not a sports car
3. Most F10 buyers are in the city or near the city where a manual is pure frustration.
4. Dealers don't stock manuals
5. Auto is more efficient and faster
6. Certain features don't work with manuals or have limited function.
7. Less people know how to drive manuals
8. Flappy paddles

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