[N16E]

Hi,

Having done over a 1000 miles now I can't help feeling that at around 80mph my steering feels "wooden", almost notchy, even jerky. I know it stiffen with speed but it feels wrong...anyone else noticed anything similar?

N16E

[Goodchip]

Nope. Much has been written about the steering.I don't get it. I find the steering to be extremely precise, with enough road feel for me. I'm no "enthusiast", though, just an average guy who likes to drive a nice car.

[Touring]

when I activate the "sport" modus I fell the sterring stiffens, its like someone is grabbing the steeringwheel. Strange, but I will get used to it. But i find the steering a little "syntetic" compared to my old 330. Thats the price to pay for too much computers involved I guess.

[Jon D]

What suspension and wheel size do you have?
My 535d has Adaptive drive with 18" rims and I know exactly what you're talking about - the steering is very responsive, there's good feedback and it corners extremely well. However, I do find myself constantly correcting and making a conscious effort just to keep it in a straight line. It's almost as if the rack mounting is loose, but there's no play in the system, so I guess it's a characteristic of the car.
I'm hoping it's just a matter of me adjusting; I've only done 400 miles and I have a long trip planned, so I'll see if I feel any different afterwards - I certainly hope so because I love everything else about the car, especially the dual turbo engine.
My problem is that my previous car was an E92 330d M on 19" wheels. The ride was a bit harsh, but I've never driven anything with such excellent steering. I wish I could forget just how good it was!

[bm323]

I have no problem keeping my F10 (with 18 inch) straight, in fact I find my steering very precise. It may not be as "connected" as my E90 or my E46 just sold, but I've no issue with its preciseness or it going straight.

[mikestrete]

I also drive an F10 530d with adaptive drive (without active steering),with the full suspension package (adaptive dampers etc) on 18" wheels and have no problem with the steering. The activation and deactivation of the electric assistance can sometimes be felt on long bends when in "normal" mode, but it is really hardly perceptible and doesn't influence the actual steering feel at all. In any event, I usually drive in Sport or Sport + on the freeway and this seems to remove the slight sensation I have described. I presume that, in this mode, the electric assistance is never switched off. I used to drive an e60 530d with active steering and the steering on my new car is far superior.

[gatoman39]

[cidair]

JonD - I know what You mean..............

I´m jumping between my 550 and my M3 ( best steering there is ) and the diff is really really big.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by cidair

JonD - I know what You mean..............

I´m jumping between my 550 and my M3 ( best steering there is ) and the diff is really really big.

Good to know it's not just me and that I'm not imagining it.
I don't know what the M3's steering feels like, but I guess it's even better than the pre 2010 E92 M (if that's possible) and that obviously affects our judgement.
I'm going on a round UK trip over the next two weeks; it'll be about 2K miles on all types of road surfaces and if I can't adjust to this less than pleasant characteristic, I might have to consider whether or not to keep the car.

[N16E]

My car is a standard 520D without any trick suspension, running on 18's. The steering at low speeds is fine, but on the motorway (or A34) it feels like it's "cogging"...it's not very pleasant....

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Jon D

...My 535d has Adaptive drive with 18" rims and I know exactly what you're talking about - the steering is very responsive, there's good feedback and it corners extremely well. However, I do find myself constantly correcting and making a conscious effort just to keep it in a straight line. It's almost as if the rack mounting is loose, but there's no play in the system, so I guess it's a characteristic of the car.
!

Originally Posted by mikestrete

I also drive an F10 530d with adaptive drive (without active steering),with the full suspension package (adaptive dampers etc) on 18" wheels and have no problem with the steering. The activation and deactivation of the electric assistance can sometimes be felt on long bends when in "normal" mode, but it is really hardly perceptible and doesn't influence the actual steering feel at all.

Originally Posted by N16E

My car is a standard 520D without any trick suspension, running on 18's. The steering at low speeds is fine, but on the motorway (or A34) it feels like it's "cogging"...it's not very pleasant....

The straight line stability and feelings of loose steering, steering activation, cogging, etc., are so familiar, not just in the F10/11 but was the big issues in my E91 330d touring. All sorted by ditching the run-flats.

Sounds to me we haven't yet got rid of the run-flat tyre issues. It's this excellent feedback that adds to my own experience and senses in the F10/11, and why I'm struggling with ordering an F11, I don't want a repeat of the E91 experience.

Jon I'm very aware of what you are saying, one of the 530d's I drove had this centre looseness, on some surfaces, (including the motorway) it was the car on 18" wheels. I commented on it at the time, put me off the F10, it was only testing the next car, back to back on 19" wheels which gave me hope. But I'm still seeing the need to remove RFTs from day one, if I go for the F11.

HighlandPete

[N16E]

OK, so next week I'm gonna call by the local dealer...I'll let you know wat they say (or not)

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by N16E

My car is a standard 520D without any trick suspension, running on 18's. The steering at low speeds is fine, but on the motorway (or A34) it feels like it's "cogging"...it's not very pleasant....

Can you define what you mean by 'cogging'? To me that word implies a ratchety or notchy feel and it's not present on my F10.
I did 90 miles on a mixture of A and B roads yesterday and it's fine as long as you have a positive cornering force on the steering wheel, but as soon as you're back on the straight, the on-centre vagueness returns and it requires constant steering input just to keep it in a straight line.
I'll be very interested to hear what your dealer has to say. I will also consult mine when I return from my two week trip.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Jon I'm very aware of what you are saying, one of the 530d's I drove had this centre looseness, on some surfaces, (including the motorway) it was the car on 18" wheels. I commented on it at the time, put me off the F10, it was only testing the next car, back to back on 19" wheels which gave me hope. But I'm still seeing the need to remove RFTs from day one, if I go for the F11.

HighlandPete

Pete,
I can understand how larger rims might help in alleviating the on-centre vagueness; presumably the lower tyre profile would result in less sideways flexing, thereby reducing the tendency to wander.
If my assumption is correct, I would have thought that non-run flats would take you back to square one in that they have more flexible sidewalls.
I'd appreciate any further enlightenment - thanks,
Jon

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Jon D

I did 90 miles on a mixture of A and B roads yesterday and it's fine as long as you have a positive cornering force on the steering wheel, but as soon as you're back on the straight, the on-centre vagueness returns and it requires constant steering input just to keep it in a straight line.
I'll be very interested to hear what your dealer has to say. I will also consult mine when I return from my two week trip.

Was this on-centre vagueness present on the test cars? It wasn't on my test car or my F10.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by bm323

Was this on-centre vagueness present on the test cars? It wasn't on my test car or my F10.

No or at least not that I noticed, but the test car I drove had standard suspension and 17" wheels.
Mine has Adaptive Drive and 18" wheels.

[N16E]

Cogging torque of electrical motors is the torque due to the interaction between the permanent magnets of the rotor and the stator slots of a Permanent Magnet (PM) machine. It is also known as detent or 'no-current' torque. Cogging torque is an undesirable component for the operation of such a motor. It is especially prominent at lower speeds (steering input), with the symptom of jerkiness.

[PoleApart]

Originally Posted by Jon D

Pete,
I can understand how larger rims might help in alleviating the on-centre vagueness; presumably the lower tyre profile would result in less sideways flexing, thereby reducing the tendency to wander.
If my assumption is correct, I would have thought that non-run flats would take you back to square one in that they have more flexible sidewalls.
I'd appreciate any further enlightenment - thanks,
Jon

My experience on rutted roads has been that the lower the profile and wider the tyre the more wandering. The sidewall doesn't have much flexing potential and that increases the wandering tendency. The F10 on 225/55R17s is much better than my E60 was on 245/45R17s

[N16E]

Whilst I am not certain, but due to the effect of speed on my steering characteristic I can't help thinking its more to do with the electronics controlling the "feel"...as described by others vague; centre position, then when you do turn the wheel you hit a heavy resistance, for me I need consistency of feel through the rotation of the steering wheel....this light then heavy feel makes the steering feel disconnected...

[grimlock]

N16E
I dont know if what you mean corresponds to what my experience was -over 80mph it feels a little 'dangerous', because the steering does not feel 'directly' connected to the car/wheels somehow. in terms of the functioning parts, i guess it would mean the steering output is both not tight enough AND the steering wheel centering force is not large enough (push back to center)
in addition, the car does not feel planted over 80mph, like it is 'hovering'.. i think the dampers + antiroll are to blame

hope this helps, look forward to feedback/correction

[grimlock]

I also have standard susp., no adaptive drive
actually, i think the antiroll is most to blame (not so much the dampers) .. i would like to here from 535i and 550i owners on standard susp. - the 523/528 antirolls r the most basic, 535 has upgraded antirolls in the front, 550i front and back
(on previous cars with reasonable antirolls but soft dampers, ride is much more stable at high speed)
f10s with adaptive drive should not be experiencing this 'float' feel over 80mph if the antirolls are at fault, as they automatically tighten up at high speed

[bm323]

My F10 on 18s is with adaptive drive and I don't understand all this vague/numb on center. For over a month, I had my E46 and E90 to compare, and I still have my E90. I have been saying this several times now, I understand if a person says the F10 is not as connected to the road as the E90, but I have no problem with any vagueness/numbness on center and my steering is precise. Likewise, I have no pull to the right/left. I had jerkiness in the beginning when cold start at very slow speeds but not now.

My suggestion is to test drive 2/3 equivalent F10s now, and verify whether the problem is present in the test cars.