[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

Try Technica Motor Sports in Atlanta, speak to Brett . I was their first flash tune customer in 2012. Actually my 550i photo posted on their website link. Rather expensive $2200 but they are claiming 84 BHP.
Good luck.

http://www.enjoytechnica.com/product...0-550i-tuning/

Joe

Thanks for the info. Did they actually dyno your car, or do they give the same tune to everybody? I'm fine with either, just curious. But Atlanta isn't too far, so I might go this route.

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

You sound like you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm implied). So, can you explain why the Dinan guys were able to do it? Was it just the fact that they put the time into it, and THAT is the reason it costs $3,000?

The reason the dinan tune is $3000 is because Mr..Dinan says you paid $80,000 for a car you can pay 3% of that for my tune, it has nothing to do with their ability to tune the cars BS ecu! He's just a f'n rip off, but I'm sure someone will chime in talking about their warranty bs but they deny when ever they can.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

The reason the dinan tune is $3000 is because Mr..Dinan says you paid $80,000 for a car you can pay 3% of that for my tune, it has nothing to do with their ability to tune the cars BS ecu! He's just a f'n rip off, but I'm sure someone will chime in talking about their warranty bs but they deny when ever they can.

You realize Dinan, being what they are with BMW, not only has to pay for the rights for the coding ability to BMW, but also do the R&D, testing, trial and error on mutliple cars, engineer the software, and THEN distribute it all while having to pay for not only their errors, but also that of the dealerships if/when they possibly mess up? Yeah, im sure they also turn a profit... thankfully we live in this great country where capitalism is at its best and demand determines a value instead of a supreme ruler. If you dont like it, dont buy it... no one is forcing you to, and it isnt a required product for you to survive. Would I ever buy a Dinan product? Not likely, but quite a few people do because its what they desire and see the value in it.

[747flyboy]

There was not a Dyne on the property at the time. They kept shuffling the car back and forth to Dyno Lab in Marietta. To answer your question the may have used me as the prototype customer half winging it. Again that was three years ago. Call them up, they can give you more accurate answers. Tell Brett you spoke to Joe A the first 550i tune customer.

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

You realize Dinan, being what they are with BMW, not only has to pay for the rights for the coding ability to BMW, but also do the R&D, testing, trial and error on mutliple cars, engineer the software, and THEN distribute it all while having to pay for not only their errors, but also that of the dealerships if/when they possibly mess up? Yeah, im sure they also turn a profit... thankfully we live in this great country where capitalism is at its best and demand determines a value instead of a supreme ruler. If you dont like it, dont buy it... no one is forcing you to, and it isnt a required product for you to survive. Would I ever buy a Dinan product? Not likely, but quite a few people do because its what they desire and see the value in it.

Lol! That's funny, I paid $275.00 for brian herter from pcm 4 less to tune my 650hp ws6 trams am. I guess some capitalist are less greedy than others. Also it's a free country (murica) I can say whatever I want, if you don't like it......... That's your problem.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

Lol! That's funny, I paid $275.00 for brian herter from pcm 4 less to tune my 650hp ws6 trams am. I guess some capitalist are less greedy than others. Also it's a free country (murica) I can say whatever I want, if you don't like it......... That's your problem.

Brian Herter didnt pay GM millions of dollars to unlock their PCM so he could tune it, he likely bought a HPtuners cable that someone else engineered and tuned your ecu. GM also doesnt recognize Brian Herter as a factory tuner and wont offer a warranty against his tune. Why not ask Lingenfelter, Katech or any other recognized name if they will match PCM4Less on their mail order tune? I wouldnt even get out of bed to tune a car for $250, its not worth my time, the liability nor the headache, and im worth more than that.

And yes, you can say whatever you want, but statements like yours and comparing an old FBody tune with a common ECU that has been around since 1997 to a not only limited production car, but one that has only been in production since 2011, shows me we arent quite on the same playing field when it comes to validity of our arguments.

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Brian Herter didnt pay GM millions of dollars to unlock their PCM so he could tune it, he likely bought a HPtuners cable that someone else engineered and tuned your ecu. GM also doesnt recognize Brian Herter as a factory tuner and wont offer a warranty against his tune. Why not ask Lingenfelter, Katech or any other recognized name if they will match PCM4Less on their mail order tune? I wouldnt even get out of bed to tune a car for $250, its not worth my time, the liability nor the headache, and im worth more than that.

And yes, you can say whatever you want, but statements like yours and comparing an old FBody tune with a common ECU that has been around since 1997 to a not only limited production car, but one that has only been in production since 2011, shows me we arent quite on the same playing field when it comes to validity of our arguments.

Whatever bro, I've read other posts by you saying bmw stuff is over priced for simply being bmw, so can you be more consistent in what you say. Also the f10 550 has been in production since 2010. Lol

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

Whatever bro, I've read other posts by you saying bmw stuff is over priced for simply being bmw, so can you be more consistent in what you say. Also the f10 550 has been in production since 2010. Lol

Listen "Bro", BMW stuff is overpriced... especially things like exhaust that any monkey with a welder and a saw can build where there really isnt any "engineering" put into it. When it comes to ECU tuning, the BMW market isnt like the domestic market. Ive been tuning GM and Ford stuff for over a decade now and other than understanding how to "tune", someone else did all the leg work by engineering the software to make it easy to flash and edit the factory computer. That software doesnt exist for our cars which means not only can any joe jump in and change things, but they have to figure out a means to get it into the computer as well. Companies who do work on common cars such as Cobb offer similar software for vehicles they support because they went through the same trouble Dinan did, and if you notice, the Cobb custom tuning software is $3,000.

If you want to keep holding out for Walmart to make a tune for your car, no one is stopping you, but if you notice everything I say in the tech section is usually backed up by experience and personal knowledge, not BS or "what ifs"

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Listen "Bro", BMW stuff is overpriced... especially things like exhaust that any monkey with a welder and a saw can build where there really isnt any "engineering" put into it. When it comes to ECU tuning, the BMW market isnt like the domestic market. Ive been tuning GM and Ford stuff for over a decade now and other than understanding how to "tune", someone else did all the leg work by engineering the software to make it easy to flash and edit the factory computer. That software doesnt exist for our cars which means not only can any joe jump in and change things, but they have to figure out a means to get it into the computer as well. Companies who do work on common cars such as Cobb offer similar software for vehicles they support because they went through the same trouble Dinan did, and if you notice, the Cobb custom tuning software is $3,000.

If you want to keep holding out for Walmart to make a tune for your car, no one is stopping you, but if you notice everything I say in the tech section is usually backed up by experience and personal knowledge, not BS or "what ifs"

Cool man, you win I'm done with this.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

Cool man, you win I'm done with this.

It really wasnt about winning or losing, I was just trying to explain to you why the market is different with this car. I came from the same place you did with Mustangs, Corvettes and Camaros as my past car and was shocked to see an Axle back system cost $2800 from some places when its two mufflers, two tips and a couple 45 degree bends, which is why I built my own exhaust, but for things out of my control such as tuning, I was justifying the cost of other companies. Dinan is a premium company, and believe it or not, not ALL of their stuff is overpriced, especially once the warranty isnt factored in such as the E92 3 series where its "just" $1299. With that in mind, they are the ONLY company offering a tune for the N63 F10 and likely just want to pay off their investment instead of taking a loss. Hopefully as the 2011s are all dropping out of warranty now, they will drop their price to a standard cash and carry/non covered price, but even then for the lesser cost, I wouldnt be a player anyway due to sub par gains.

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

It really wasnt about winning or losing, I was just trying to explain to you why the market is different with this car. I came from the same place you did with Mustangs, Corvettes and Camaros as my past car and was shocked to see an Axle back system cost $2800 from some places when its two mufflers, two tips and a couple 45 degree bends, which is why I built my own exhaust, but for things out of my control such as tuning, I was justifying the cost of other companies. Dinan is a premium company, and believe it or not, not ALL of their stuff is overpriced, especially once the warranty isnt factored in such as the E92 3 series where its "just" $1299. With that in mind, they are the ONLY company offering a tune for the N63 F10 and likely just want to pay off their investment instead of taking a loss. Hopefully as the 2011s are all dropping out of warranty now, they will drop their price to a standard cash and carry/non covered price, but even then for the lesser cost, I wouldnt be a player anyway due to sub par gains.

It's all good. I hear what your sayin and yes bmw exhausts are way over priced. I see in your signature you have an ess tuner, what's that about? Does it add any good power?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

It's all good. I hear what your sayin and yes bmw exhausts are way over priced. I see in your signature you have an ess tuner, what's that about? Does it add any good power?

Its the same as most other "piggy backs" with a couple added twists, and when comparing all of the similar devices, this one stuck out as offering what I wanted and the most ability with the least downside/headaches.

the basics are just like the others, adds 2-3 lbs of boost (adjustable to your liking via flash program to the device) with the additional benefit of MAF sensor control and crank reference. This allows for the device to add more fuel as well as control boost by RPM. The downside about adding a blanket amount of boost in our cars (especially in areas with only 91 octane or warmer climates such as were we both live) is you can get a fair amount of detonation where the boost spikes and the car loads at lower RPMs. BMW likes to run these cars lean for emissions purposes as well as hot, and unfortunately without a flash there is no way to target a richer air fuel ratio, so the best you can do is a device like the ESS E-tronic where it tells the MAF sensors to add fuel and get it back to its target AFR as quickly as possible, instead of other devices where they will have to "learn" via fuel trims and adjust over time. Lastly with the crank reference, I can tell the computer where I want boost to come in, and not being an X drive (or wanting to hurt any drive line components), I have boost coming in from 3,000 rpm to redline, which I will be changing in the future to full boost at 3,000, 2 lbs at 2500 and 1 lb at 2,000 in an attempt to get a bit more sooner without inducing wheel spin (right now I can brake boost off the line and other than a tire squeal or two it takes off like a rocket with no wheel spin). It can store 3 different tunes as well as having the ability to modify the boost on each tune independently with the push of a button to switch, and it includes a terminator plug that returns all the connections their factory locations without having to unhook the harness in case you need to troubleshoot or take it in for service.
As far as contstruction, it is light years better than the competition with true weather sealing and OE grade plugs/connectors/harnesses, and its significantly smaller as well.

I wont say it makes any more horsepower than the competition because it doesnt... 3 lbs of boost is 3 lbs of boost is 3 lbs of boost no matter whos device adds it, but I like knowing its added safely and when I run 30% E85, its very easy to increase boost while im pumping gas, and then change back when im done. Some are running the JB Stage II which tricks the computer into retarding timing which allows for more boost, and of course more power, but most also complain of engine lights, malfunctions, surging and driveability issues (search the threads on here and N54tech, there are plenty), but if you want the most power regardless of downsides, thats the way to do it. I would like more power personally, but I daily drive my car and while also having a CPO warranty, I would sacrifice 20 extra horsepower for it driving like stock with significantly more than stock. With the reliability of the E-tronic, plus my dyno graph being nice and smooth and the identical air/fuel ratio as stock (exact overlay), im pretty happy with the way it runs.

[Autobuffoonery]

Thanks, that sounds pretty good, can you tell me what your before and after dyno numbers are?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

Thanks, that sounds pretty good, can you tell me what your before and after dyno numbers are?

It was a nice hot steamy day in Arizona thats 91 octane and 100% stock otherwise vs just adding a piggyback. Boost starts at 3500, but im going to try bringing it in sooner when I have time and see if I still get traction

[Autobuffoonery]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

It was a nice hot steamy day in Arizona thats 91 octane and 100% stock otherwise vs just adding a piggyback. Boost starts at 3500, but im going to try bringing it in sooner when I have time and see if I still get traction

Wow not much of a drivetrain loss, these cars must be underrated. Is that increase in hp and tq super noticeable, can you really tell it's allot faster? I want to buy something to increase the power, some dude in c63 amg raced me awhile back ( freeway) and I had him to about 120mph and then he slowly started to pull away. I'm not sure if his car had upgrades or stock for stock they are faster, but I want more power. Should I have beat the amg?

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by Autobuffoonery

Wow not much of a drivetrain loss, these cars must be underrated. Is that increase in hp and tq super noticeable, can you really tell it's allot faster? I want to buy something to increase the power, some dude in c63 amg raced me awhile back ( freeway) and I had him to about 120mph and then he slowly started to pull away. I'm not sure if his car had upgrades or stock for stock they are faster, but I want more power. Should I have beat the amg?

From videos ive seen, the AMGs are SEVERELY under rated, and there are also 3 different C63s depending on year, the twin turbo and blower ones move out though. One of the guys on here raced one on video
http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1162043

As far as my car, its a huge difference where you can see the factory power levels falling off pretty bad after the torque spike where as with the E-tronic, it maintains the boost to redline. I havent run it on the dyno with E85, but I turn the boost up a fair amount when it has 30% in the tank and it runs harder. Im going to try and dial it in lower, but unfortunately most on here running the 3 lb increase at all times have some severe tirespin issues (without xdrive obviously) and I also dont want to worry about detonation issues in the summer when loading it up in a lower gear to pass.

[badblack550xi]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

You sound like you know what you're talking about (no sarcasm implied). So, can you explain why the Dinan guys were able to do it? Was it just the fact that they put the time into it, and THAT is the reason it costs $3,000?

They are using a press release flash nothing special gains are minor. It used to get resold under many brands. Real tuning only available on dual DME cars n63 TU that is. In order to tune the dme has to be cracked open or drilled in yo, this way they can install tuners map, after that you can update tunes via odb2.

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by 747flyboy

There was not a Dyne on the property at the time. They kept shuffling the car back and forth to Dyno Lab in Marietta. To answer your question the may have used me as the prototype customer half winging it. Again that was three years ago. Call them up, they can give you more accurate answers. Tell Brett you spoke to Joe A the first 550i tune customer.

lol. *dyno. My mistake

[UA_civ_eng]

Originally Posted by FenixMike

Dont shoot the messenger, but heres how it plays out.

BMW works with Dinan and Alpina (basically sells them the ability to program at a rate no shop is going to pay and may not even be offered to) on the cars. If you notice, people are just recently tuning the M5 and 550i with this ECU having been out since the 2013 model year, which we are about to go into the 2016. Thats almost 3 years to get into flash tuning. The N63 550i came out in 2011, and by the time anyone got close, the N63tu was already announced with a new computer, so why would anyone waste time for a limited production year that could cost a TON in R&D to sell a few tunes? I tune a lot of domestic vehicles and its the same story with their software, priority goes to the popular cars, and believe it or not, the 2011-2013 550i just isnt on anyones "dream car" list... that being said a new one is, or a M5, or a M4/M3 car, which is what people will focus on. If anyone has spent a ton of time researching every possibility on the N63, its me, and ive gone through the routes to people who can actually do something, and the options given just arent worth the payoff. I made my decision today and stuck my car up for sale and will be investing in a newer N63tu car or M5.

I would absolutely love an M5, but the price tag, including the MPG hit vs. the 550, is too much for me right now. What I would REALLY love is one of the new C63s. But for now, a TU may be a future purchase for me as well.

[FenixMike]

Originally Posted by UA_civ_eng

I would absolutely love an M5, but the price tag, including the MPG hit vs. the 550, is too much for me right now. What I would REALLY love is one of the new C63s. But for now, a TU may be a future purchase for me as well.

I looked at MB but for some reason I just cant get excited about any of the ones under $200,000. The BMW dealer here also owns a MB dealer so it would be easy to get into one, but I REALLY like the 5 series overall size, and apparently a similar "E" class from MB is a cheaper economy class although it is offered with the similar twin turbo V8 and can be a monster with additions. The S class is too big, C class is too small and I dont want to buy an E class and be disappointed coming from a loaded 5 series, even though a couple year old model would save me a bit of money since they are 20K cheaper than a 550.

Once mine is sold im just going to hunt for a well priced mid mileage N63tu car, or get a higher mileage M5. Regardless of what I can afford, I cant justify the price of the car encroaching on my mortgage payment.

[RSBro]

I hadn't thought about it that way, but the fact that by 2013 we were already seeing -TU engines is the reason everyone has given up on the original N63 flash tune. It can and is being done on the newer models, so yeah- why spend the time and money on an old design?
I bit the bullet and decided to keep my N63 550 so I'm just going to get a JB4 and have a local guy tweak it for me. If my firm keeps growing I'll be able to nab an Aston V8 for my 40th bday anyway, so this just needs to last the next 6 years lol.

[Autobuffoonery]

I have a theory, it's only a small one but could it be possible bmw purposely made it near impossible to tune the n63's dme because they didn't want the 550 to be more competitive with the m5's power with a simple tune and some exhaust upgrades. We all know with turbo cars turning up the boost will increase the power, I know the m5's turbos are bigger and the performance is based on much more than just the engine. In reality if a tuner in 2011 had a 550i m sport, tuned it and did some mods to the exhaust and intercoolers and it put out more power than the m5's before they even hit the streets in the US, that would of created a lot of media hype and the m5 for the price would seem like a bust. Remember guys it's only a theory but it sounds more feasible to me, what's say you?