[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

I had a chance yesterday to drive my sister's '13 535i MSport that did not have the DDC as a comparison to my '12 535 that does have the dynamic dampers. My opinion is that the base M Sport suspension firmness wise is in between the Comfort and Sport modes on a car w/ DDC On the car w/ the DDC the Comfort mode is a bit softer (obviously Comfort + is even softer) but the Sport mode seems to be a touch stiffer. I drove the car over the same road I drive every day so I think it was a good comparison. The dynamic dampers in each of the modes feel like they react more quickly and handle bumps better. If I had a choice I would order the DDC. I haven't driven a car with the active roll bars so I can't comment on that.

Just my 2 cents.

That is my understanding from lots of comment on the subject, same is said for the F30/31 3 series. It appears BMW have pitched the passive sport settings a little more comfortable, (than DDC sport) as the driver has to live with them all the time. I know in my driving conditions the adaptive sport setting would become a bit wearisome, if I couldn't soften it a bit on the poorer road surfaces.

HighlandPete

[1HOT BMR]

Two words: Adaptive Drive - it is simply the best. All others are lacking. DDC without ARS is incomplete. Non adaptive suspensions are all compromises. If AD is offered for your model and you can afford it, by all means get it. In 2011 when I bought my car I test drove every combo and I had to fly 400 miles to Los Angeles to test one with IAS (Integral Active Steering). IMO, AD + IAS + Michelin Pilot Super Sport non-runflat tires is the winning combo - at least it was for me

[rayhwc]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

After trying the standard offerings in a couple of F10 examples, (with different wheel sizes) and an F11, I was a bit disappointed with the way they coped with poor road surfaces. I tried an F10 with Adaptive Drive and that sorted all my issues. There were no M-sport suspension demo cars about at the time, so lost a bit of interest.

In fact my attention turned to the new 3-series, so waited to try an F30 and after a test drive, thought the suspension was pretty well sorted, but would want the Adaptive M-sport option to get a bit more damper control.

To cut a long story short, "five vs. three" and with some of the UK motor reviews suggesting the 5-series was a brilliant car, but really needed the suspension options, or if buying M-sport models delete the M-sport suspension if you were after the best ride quality, as M-sport was too firm. I knew passive M-sport wouldn't be for me anyway, if there was something better on offer. So never pushed to get into a demo model, even for comparison purposes.

My F11 535i has Adaptive Drive, I can drive poor roads in the mid setting and enjoy a pretty smooth ride and decent handling balance. With sport for the times I'm on better roads and after a bit of fun. For me, the ARS feature does the critical part of keeping the car pretty flat on cornering, without the need to have a firm damper setting.

HighlandPete

HighlangPete,
I too drive a 535i F11 with adaptive drive and Michelin PSS tyres. Wanted to ask what you think of the comfort setting? I wanted the Comfort setting for the bad roads surfaces we get in Malaysia, but now actually find the setting rather uncomfortable as its too soft. And when going over a huge speed hump, the front is so soft that it bottoms out as you come down after the hump, whereas the rear is still too firm further pushing the front end down as the rears reach the hump. Which makes me think that only the fronts dampers adjust on the F11 while the rear air suspension remains pretty stiff even in Comfort mode.

[BimmerGuyFL]

I have a 2013 F10 535i M-sport with the M-sports suspension and I think its an excellent balance of both ride and handling. rides extremely comfortable and handles really well. I don't see the need to spend $3,000 for the Dynamic Handling package for DDC + AD. I've test driven both and I preferred the M-sports suspension.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by rayhwc

HighlangPete,
I too drive a 535i F11 with adaptive drive and Michelin PSS tyres. Wanted to ask what you think of the comfort setting? I wanted the Comfort setting for the bad roads surfaces we get in Malaysia, but now actually find the setting rather uncomfortable as its too soft. And when going over a huge speed hump, the front is so soft that it bottoms out as you come down after the hump, whereas the rear is still too firm further pushing the front end down as the rears reach the hump. Which makes me think that only the fronts dampers adjust on the F11 while the rear air suspension remains pretty stiff even in Comfort mode.

BMW have always designed a chassis to run well when loaded, so a touring, even with self levelling rear suspension will have a slightly stiffer spring rate on the rear. Having air springs in the rear of the touring lessens the issue, as spring rate changes with load, but will effect the dynamics particularly when running as 'driver only' cars.

I find comfort works best either when there is load in the car, or road quality is reasonable. Like any suspension, as road quality deteriorates the compromises will show up. AD has a much wider working envelope than a fixed passive system, whatever its settings.

When I went to get my winter wheel set, I did notice that when on the motorway, comfort mode was a little floaty and car less composed than in normal mode. But when loaded with the wheels (another 110kgs on the rear) the car was much better in comfort mode, just that extra load on the rear sorted the comfort feel. The rear damping is definitely changing, try it in sport mode and that has a marked influence on the rear feel.

On my normal roads, which are very varied in surface quality, normal mode works best, keeps the chassis controlled at maximum comfort possible. And that applies across the speed range.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I have a 2013 F10 535i M-sport with the M-sports suspension and I think its an excellent balance of both ride and handling. rides extremely comfortable and handles really well. I don't see the need to spend $3,000 for the Dynamic Handling package for DDC + AD. I've test driven both and I preferred the M-sports suspension.

Many do feel for at home with passive suspension systems, particularly if we are used to how they respond in any given situation. I have no issue with that at all, the compromises of a BMW M-sport system are typically well balanced for ride and handling. Over here in the UK many have also commented on the standard suspension being very good, totally acceptable. But I suppose it depends on where we come from, what we expect, and are happy with.

Personally I want more than what most passive systems give, as my road quality is so varied and I'm pushing the working envelope more than many drivers would in their conditions. I hate the fact that I lose ride comfort, or the firmer sport settings just turn to a jiggling or crashy ride. AD sorts that for me, in my conditions.

HighlandPete

[rayhwc]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW have always designed a chassis to run well when loaded, so a touring, even with self levelling rear suspension will have a slightly stiffer spring rate on the rear. Having air springs in the rear of the touring lessens the issue, as spring rate changes with load, but will effect the dynamics particularly when running as 'driver only' cars.

I find comfort works best either when there is load in the car, or road quality is reasonable. Like any suspension, as road quality deteriorates the compromises will show up. AD has a much wider working envelope than a fixed passive system, whatever its settings.

When I went to get my winter wheel set, I did notice that when on the motorway, comfort mode was a little floaty and car less composed than in normal mode. But when loaded with the wheels (another 110kgs on the rear) the car was much better in comfort mode, just that extra load on the rear sorted the comfort feel. The rear damping is definitely changing, try it in sport mode and that has a marked influence on the rear feel.

On my normal roads, which are very varied in surface quality, normal mode works best, keeps the chassis controlled at maximum comfort possible. And that applies across the speed range.

HighlandPete

That's a good point regarding load. I'll try and observe the difference in Comfort mode with and without load in the rear. Maybe even give myself an excuse to have a few more ice-creams or extra helpings of chocolate cake

I generally also drive around in Normal mode and it's a decent compromise, albeit still that little bit too soft (this coming from someone who values comfort over sport). If M Performance comes up with slightly lowered suspension that is compatible with Adaptive Drive, I might just spring for it. I hear AC Schitzner offer a set that is. Wonder why BMW did not offer the M suspension compatible with Adaptive Drive?

[pharding]

I have ARS with DDC. ARS is awesome. I would much prefer to have a passive sport suspension equal to 2008 M-Sport 550i than DDC. That was spectacular for my tastes. I also really like the suspension in the M5. Of course I cannot afford an M5. The suspension on the F10 with DDC is a bit of compromise that is underwhelming for my tastes. Hopefully they address this with the refresh. Steering and the suspension with anti-sway bars are critical to the performance and feel of any true BMW sports sedan.

[bm323]

Originally Posted by JamRWS6

I had a chance yesterday to drive my sister's '13 535i MSport that did not have the DDC as a comparison to my '12 535 that does have the dynamic dampers. My opinion is that the base M Sport suspension firmness wise is in between the Comfort and Sport modes on a car w/ DDC. On the car w/ the DDC the Comfort mode is a bit softer (obviously Comfort + is even softer) but the Sport mode seems to be a touch stiffer.

Did your sister's 535i MSport have the toggle switch and was it set in sport, when compared to your 535i that has dynamic dampers (toggled to sport I presume)?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I have a 2013 F10 535i M-sport with the M-sports suspension and I think its an excellent balance of both ride and handling. rides extremely comfortable and handles really well. I don't see the need to spend $3,000 for the Dynamic Handling package for DDC + AD. I've test driven both and I preferred the M-sports suspension.

I'm keen to hear more on this. Do you find suspension in the MSport suspension (toggled to sport) stiffer or less stiff than dynamic handling package (toggled to sport)?

[bm323]

Originally Posted by pharding

I have ARS with DDC. ARS is awesome. I would much prefer to have a passive sport suspension equal to 2008 M-Sport 550i than DDC. That was spectacular for my tastes. I also really like the suspension in the M5. Of course I cannot afford an M5. The suspension on the F10 with DDC is a bit of compromise that is underwhelming for my tastes. Hopefully they address this with the refresh. Steering and the suspension with anti-sway bars are critical to the performance and feel of any true BMW sports sedan.

How do you find the F10 M5 and E90 M3 suspensions compared to the 2008 E60 suspension?

[JamRWS6]

Originally Posted by bm323

Did your sister's 535i MSport have the toggle switch and was it set in sport, when compared to your 535i that has dynamic dampers (toggled to sport I presume)?

I'm not sure which toggle switch you are speaking of other than the switch that changes between Sport, Comfort, etc. I changed between Sport, Comfort, and Eco Pro in the car, it only affects steering feel and shift aggressiveness in a non DDC car. Not sure if that answers your question but just let me know if not.

[DLerner]

So, it sounds like there are a lot of opinions about which of these suspension options makes the F10/11 'feel' the best - which is important. Has anyone done/seen any testing that might put some data behind which factory available suspension set-up 'really' provides the best handling?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by YodaSyrup

So, it sounds like there are a lot of opinions about which of these suspension options makes the F10/11 'feel' the best - which is important. Has anyone done/seen any testing that might put some data behind which factory available suspension set-up 'really' provides the best handling?

Best handling... that is a difficult one. Even with raw data, the final opinion is often 'what feels best', and that is subjective. We'd assume with the options we get a better riding/handling car, many test drivers hold that opinion. The least we get with the options (or combinations of) is something different, and it is the differences which collect opinion and the likes or dislikes. Something as simple as changing tire size and brand specification, can completely alter the feel to the ride/handling balance. Let alone the more complex option based configurations.

When we assess the ride/handling balance, do we test drive for a particular 'sporty' feel? Or are we testing for the roads we typically drive and how the car is used, not just for the driver but passengers as well? For me it is the latter, how I will live with the chassis long term, and day to day. That is how I judge chassis dynamics of a road car, never mind what it will do on a track. Track settings would make a poor daily driver for me. I look for the least amount of compromises for day to day use. So any raw data on what corners best, etc., would mean very little if it didn't translate to my roads and driving needs.

A neighbour of mine (an M-car enthusiast) replaced his E39 M5 with an E60 M5, he obviously drives the same roads as me, when asked how it handled locally, he said it just didn't drive well or reward as it should in the 'tightest' sport mode, the chassis was far too firm, grip was reduced and therefore a compromised drive, sort of defeated the "best handling" ethos. He didn't keep it long and regretted changing from his E39 M5, which was fine in the same conditions.

We all evaluate from slightly different perspectives, one man's best is another's compromise.

HighlandPete

[pharding]

Originally Posted by bm323

How do you find the F10 M5 and E90 M3 suspensions compared to the 2008 E60 suspension?

2008 M-Sport 550i was the best by far. The car rode like a true sports sedan.

[Claude Du Danville]

This is my first post to the forum. I have buyers remorse and wanted to help prevent anyone else from making the same decision. I read a lot of forums, spoke to an H&R representative, and read technical data before deciding on the springs on my recently purchased F10 (20k miles). I swapped the 19" M Sport wheels with 20" BBS CH-R II Gunmetals and wanted to compensate the larger diameter rims with a lower stance. Since the stock ride was comfortable, I was concerned about sacrificing ride comfort, especially by introducing a lower profile tire to the equation. I ended up choosing H&R OE SPORT springs and now wish I didn't. The look is OK after taking over a month for the car to settle to the estimated 1" drop. However, the stock M-Sport stock springs, in my opinion, had a more responsive feel and provided significantly less dip and squat. I now feel like I am isolated from the driving experience with significant dip when hitting the brakes. I spent $300 for the springs and $700 for my mechanic to swap the springs. I am going with the H&R SPORT springs as soon as financially feasible. My previous model was an E39 528i Sport package with 19" Beyern deep dish wheels with a suspension package consisting of Bilstein Heavy Duty Shocks, H&R springs (cannot recall which type), strut brace, sway bars - loved the handling. Now the handling bothers me every time I get behind the wheel of my F10. If anyone else has any other suggestions, please let me know. First World Problems. Thank You.