[Sales@RKautowerks]

Hey guys!

I had a friend who wanted a set of intakes for his car so i was going to see if there would be interest in having more than 1 set made.

I have a 3d scanner so these will fit like a glove, i plan on having the filter inside the kidney grills. The MAF location diameter would be the same but i would be enlarging the rest of the setup to reduce pumping losses for the turbo.

Here are some pics of what i have. I was looking at making these in carbon fiber, to make it economical they would probably be around $1500 a set.

Just throwing ideas around to see if the community would be interested while i'm doing this for him. His set will be in 3d printed plastic but i'm sure he'd love to have a set in carbon as well.

-Carbon fiber intakes
-Reduced pumping loss for power gains
-OEM fitment
-No MAF errors
-Reversible installation




Thanks


Edit-Does anyone on here reside in Columbus Ohio? My friend is in Maryland. Makes fitment a little inconvenient haha.

[lsturbointeg]

Nothing for the 535?

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by lsturbointeg

Nothing for the 535?

That's easily doable too. Would just need a car.

[vivanapoli806]

Originally Posted by DallasM5

That's easily doable too. Would just need a car.

I would possibly be interested as well in one for n55 535 depending on price.

[BoogieMan2]

Originally Posted by DallasM5

Hey guys!

I had a friend who wanted a set of intakes for his car so i was going to see if there would be interest in having more than 1 set made.

I have a 3d scanner so these will fit like a glove, i plan on having the filter inside the kidney grills. The MAF location diameter would be the same but i would be enlarging the rest of the setup to reduce pumping losses for the turbo.

Here are some pics of what i have. I was looking at making these in carbon fiber, to make it economical they would probably be around $1500 a set.

Just throwing ideas around to see if the community would be interested while i'm doing this for him. His set will be in 3d printed plastic but i'm sure he'd love to have a set in carbon as well.

-Carbon fiber intakes
-Reduced pumping loss for power gains
-OEM fitment
-No MAF errors
-Reversible installation




Thanks


Edit-Does anyone on here reside in Columbus Ohio? My friend is in Maryland. Makes fitment a little inconvenient haha.

I'm all in

[EL Jeffe 5]

No Thanks, $1500 for 0 horse power and only looks Not interested
Appreciate the effort Tho...

[BoogieMan2]

I'll be the one to say it. Some of you guys on this board are some complete assholes. The guy is doing more then some of you lazy ass dudes and it seems like you some of you can't resist your negative comments

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

No Thanks, $1500 for 0 horse power and only looks Not interested
Appreciate the effort Tho...

How would it be 0 horsepower?

Pumping loss is a very big factor on forced induction setups, or any car for that matter.

BMEP = IMEP + PMEP +FMEP

Where BMEP is brake power, IMEP is the spark loops of the PV diagram, PMEP is the pumping loop.

You can reduce PMEP and free up power. That's the common misconception, people assume an intake "makes" power, all it does is free up power. I purchased a set of stock intakes to run flow numbers so i can show everyone this on the N63.

On the M5 intakes i've developed, we were able to obtain a 30-40% increase in flow. This increase in flow now means the engine is working less(air sucked in isn't free, it costs "horsepower." As a result we were able to pickup a considerable amount of horsepower that the engine was having to use to get the air into the engine before.

Think about it this way, you are sucking through a straw, the amount of suction you have is constant, i give you a small straw, its really hard to suck but you can get the same volume through that straw, but you worked more. Now i give you a bigger straw, you sucked the same amount of fluid through it, but you did much less work. Same concept with an intake that is properly designed.

I'll spare you the physics behind it and the aero behind it.

For anyone wondering, i'm an aero engineer who's worked for NASA, and an OEM. I run a multi million dollar dyno cell everyday and can quantify everything.

Thanks
-R

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by BoogieMan2

I'll be the one to say it. Some of you guys on this board are some complete assholes. The guy is doing more then some of you lazy ass dudes and it seems like you some of you can't resist your negative comments

Hey man it's all good, i don't mind educating others so they understand. The average member on here has no idea how engines truly work and i'm more than happy to pass my knowledge on.

I'll get together my data for the M5 intakes once they're done this week.

Here is the M5 version.







The designs are optimized via CFD, flow tested on a flow bench, chassis dyno tested, bench dyno tested, then CNC molds produced so they are exact the way i want, autoclave carbon fiber (no cheap stuff), and then sold with everything needed for installation.

Thanks
-R

[vivanapoli806]

Originally Posted by DallasM5

Hey man it's all good, i don't mind educating others so they understand. The average member on here has no idea how engines truly work and i'm more than happy to pass my knowledge on.

I'll get together my data for the M5 intakes once they're done this week.

Here is the M5 version.







The designs are optimized via CFD, flow tested on a flow bench, chassis dyno tested, bench dyno tested, then CNC molds produced so they are exact the way i want, autoclave carbon fiber (no cheap stuff), and then sold with everything needed for installation.

Thanks
-R

What do you estimate pricing on the 535 of you decide to go that route eventually ?

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by vivanapoli806

What do you estimate pricing on the 535 of you decide to go that route eventually ?

Easily under a grand, half the cost since there's only 1 intake.

If someone in ohio is ok with me stopping by and scanning their car, i can knock it out in a week or two with prototypes.

Thanks
-R

[vivanapoli806]

@lsturbointeg you think it's worth it of we can get them for around the price of what afe charges ?

[VinoFiveFiddy]

Awesome design and as others have said, the more options the better.

[gabypr]

Thanks for your contributions. Like others said the more options we could have the better. From what I have read aftermarket intakes doesnt have a nice reputation, but if this intake that you are developing could provide some hp along some nice looking design im sure many members would go for it.

Thanks

[EL Jeffe 5]

Originally Posted by DallasM5

How would it be 0 horsepower?

Pumping loss is a very big factor on forced induction setups, or any car for that matter.

BMEP = IMEP + PMEP +FMEP

Where BMEP is brake power, IMEP is the spark loops of the PV diagram, PMEP is the pumping loop.

You can reduce PMEP and free up power. That's the common misconception, people assume an intake "makes" power, all it does is free up power. I purchased a set of stock intakes to run flow numbers so i can show everyone this on the N63.

On the M5 intakes i've developed, we were able to obtain a 30-40% increase in flow. This increase in flow now means the engine is working less(air sucked in isn't free, it costs "horsepower." As a result we were able to pickup a considerable amount of horsepower that the engine was having to use to get the air into the engine before.

Think about it this way, you are sucking through a straw, the amount of suction you have is constant, i give you a small straw, its really hard to suck but you can get the same volume through that straw, but you worked more. Now i give you a bigger straw, you sucked the same amount of fluid through it, but you did much less work. Same concept with an intake that is properly designed.

I'll spare you the physics behind it and the aero behind it.

For anyone wondering, i'm an aero engineer who's worked for NASA, and an OEM. I run a multi million dollar dyno cell everyday and can quantify everything.

Thanks
-R

I been working on cars for past 15 years done manny upgrades form turbos superchargers nitrous including cold air intake etc...
I understand concept of sucking more air and you can free up some horsepower
but 30-40% No WAY! now please bore me with physics
I can't question your intelligence simply because I don't know you.
Cold Air Intake might give you very small procreant of power maybe .5%
but for the money people spend on just pipe and crapy filter simply not worth money.
Thats just my opinion

check this out

[Apple Corps]

I believe he stated a 30 - 40% increase in FLOW - not power.

[dadysev]

Originally Posted by Apple Corps

I believe he stated a 30 - 40% increase in FLOW - not power.

Whats the point of flow if there is no increase in power?

A lot of people fail to understand the reason for the OEM box on the OEM intake. Every CIA I have seen causes a lack in bottom end torque (launch). That box that is usually on every OEM setup is there for stored air. Almost similar to an air canister for the motor when first launched.
Anyone that tells you they have more power from a CIA, is usually because they spent a tonne of money on it and it looks cool. Mind over matter. Just my 2 cents....

[BlackWidow]

Nice, will this be any different from badblack's n63intake performance wise?

[Apple Corps]

[QUOTE=dadysev;20039596]Whats the point of flow if there is no increase in power?

A lot of people fail to understand...

Not sure why you quoted my post. The intent was to correct an error in a previous post. Not arguing a point of view how much increase in flow translates to how much increase in power, with this proposed product or any other.

[SLVSRFR]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

I been working on cars for past 15 years done manny upgrades form turbos superchargers nitrous including cold air intake etc...
I understand concept of sucking more air and you can free up some horsepower
but 30-40% No WAY! now please bore me with physics
I can't question your intelligence simply because I don't know you.
Cold Air Intake might give you very small procreant of power maybe .5%
but for the money people spend on just pipe and crapy filter simply not worth money.
Thats just my opinion

check this out

This video is pretty old and not a valid reputable source of information.

Every vehicle is different and there have been instances where the stock intake is a choke point.

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

I been working on cars for past 15 years done manny upgrades form turbos superchargers nitrous including cold air intake etc...
I understand concept of sucking more air and you can free up some horsepower
but 30-40% No WAY! now please bore me with physics
I can't question your intelligence simply because I don't know you.
Cold Air Intake might give you very small procreant of power maybe .5%
but for the money people spend on just pipe and crapy filter simply not worth money.
Thats just my opinion

check this out

Working on cars, and understand how cars work are two different things, sorry if that sounds rude but it's true. If you'd like to have an educated discussion with me about engines and how they truly work, i'd be more than happy to, but doesn't sound like you're interested with being "bored" with physics.


I'm sure you've heard that intakes make power, that's a fallacy, intakes don't make power at all. They FREE up power, the engine is already producing what it can produce at its RON(gasoline) knock limit provided a chain of other criteria are not holding it back. As an OEM(i work for an OEM) we design intakes very differently than the aftermarket, we have noise, vibration, power constraints, costs, and durability in mind. A combination of these constraints are why we leave "power" on the table. In the aftermarket the consumers are usually power and aesthetics drive, not so much concerned about the other constraints.

So with that said, the intake system is purposely constrained from factory. The ECU is calibrated with the intake system and it's shipped off.

So how do you "free" up this power?

The common assumption is that your intakes make power, false. The governing equation/theory/facts behind this is BMEP = IMEP + PMEP + FMEP. Where BMEP is the brake power, the power the engine will produce at the crank rather. Now you have IMEP, the indicated mean effective pressure, the power loop of the PV diagram. This is where the magic happens, IMEP is the boom inside the engine, the working portion of the PV diagram. This is the absolute amount of power the engine can make before it starts sending the power in all sorts of direction. PMEP is where the intakes come in, PMEP is the pumping mean effective pressure. The engine has to utilize some of its IMEP to suck in the air and push the air out, this isn't free after-all. Then you have FMEP, the friction portion of the game, this is your rotating assembly, lubrication, seals, and etc.

Here's a PV diagram to visualize what's going on.




BMEP = crank power = measured using a dyno
IMEP = power loop = measured using in cylinder pressure transducers
PMEP = pumping loop = measured using in cylinder pressure transducers
FMEP = friction = calculated using math by knowing BMEP/IMEP/PMEP

So now that we've established power is only made in the power loop, everyone should be onboard with why intakes don't make power.

Intakes are like straws, us as a humans can suck in x amount of water using a straw that is half an inch wide, we can also suck x amount of water with a straw that is 4x as small. It's easier to drink through the bigger straw right? Same concept with an intake! Which brings me to my next point, an efficient intake is like a big straw, really easy to suck the water through. We call this value "delta pressure" the amount of suction needed to move a certain amount of fluid through a vessel.

With that said, we want to make it easy for the engine to "breath" on a forced induction application, easier for the engine to breath means less power it has to use to suck that air. See where this is going?

Lets put some numbers with our equations.

BMEP = IMEP + PMEP + FMEP
(+) = (+) + (-) + (-)
(end power) = (total power) + (pumping loss) + (friction loss)


BMEP = IMEP + PMEP + FMEP
10 = 14 + (-2) + (-2)

That is configuration A

now we have our new intake, configuration B, the big straw

BMEP = IMEP + PMEP + FMEP
11 = 14 + (-1) + (-2)


You just increased the crank power of the engine, by freeing up power that was always there! This is why when you see flow in LPS, it doesn't hold much value, so you increased the flow? Does it mean anything, because the flow has to have some type of delta pressure associated with it, how much suction did you need to produce that flow. I can take a 2" pipe and flow 500LPS through it, but i had to have a ton of suction on it. But my 3" pipe only flowed 300LPS, but it was barely sucking. Marketing will make you think the 500LPS is better because well...you didn't know, now you do!


With that said, i ran the flow numbers and will demonstrate why our intakes will produce an increase in power.

This graph shows the amount of air an engine is consuming based on your boost pressure (turbo application only). This gives you an idea of how much air your engine is consuming at wide open throttle at a certain RPM.


Now you have what most are used to seeing, the "flow increase" diagram. I have my X axis as a function of delta pressure, which is what you should ask for. But like we discussed earlier, this doesn't help quantify why engine is making power. You see that you increased flow at each delta pressure, but you don't know what the delta pressure drop is, just what you increased flow by.


This is why you should ask the vendor for this graph. A chart of delta pressure as a function of flow. Now you can quantify, based off how an engine works as explained above, what benefits to expect to see. You can see for yourself what benefits to expect based off the chart below. You can reference to my cylinder head flow chart and compare what delta pressure benefit you have based off the RPM at WOT condition. You can see below how our intakes compare to a competitor and how they compare to stock. We've reduced your pumping loss from 40-60%, power you were allocating to move the air into the engine before, is now being used to move your car!


Reason why i bring that up is because it's really easy to quantify the difference between intakes when you conduct testing using a flow bench. It's not easy to compare intakes or really quantify power because of intakes on a car, on a chassis dyno. You need a bench dyno running some state of the art equipment to truly quantify it. The flow bench is something anyone who's charging someone several hundreds for an intake should use to validate their product. You can make this entire system go full circle and derive a correlation between delta_P reduction and the pumping loss benefit if you had a system sophisticated enough to accurately capture the PMEP inside the engine. Then you could back out the increase in power as a function of Delta_P. You'll be hard pressed to find shops outside the OEM that have this capability, i know of a handful. Happy modding!





Now watch your video again and tell me how lengthening out a pipe after what you just learned will result in a lower delta pressure. There are so many things they neglected in the video. They increased their IMEP but increased their PMEP as well by making that pipe longer.

I think i've already explained more than enough why that video is a joke.




for those still hanging around i got the M5 intakes today, here's a picture. I'll get more this weekend as we install them. I've also attached a video when we were doing durability testing.

Thanks
-R


PS: Many assumptions were made to simplify this analysis. More than happy to get down and dirty with those interested.

[Sales@RKautowerks]

Originally Posted by dadysev

Whats the point of flow if there is no increase in power?

A lot of people fail to understand the reason for the OEM box on the OEM intake. Every CIA I have seen causes a lack in bottom end torque (launch). That box that is usually on every OEM setup is there for stored air. Almost similar to an air canister for the motor when first launched.
Anyone that tells you they have more power from a CIA, is usually because they spent a tonne of money on it and it looks cool. Mind over matter. Just my 2 cents....

Another false claim, the "box" is there because we have noise and emissions to meet. It's much harder to design a system to meet EPA/CARB/NOISE/Performance/durability and the list goes on, than it is to design a setup for the aftermarket. your concept of a bottom end torque loss is also not valid because that large "box" simply reduces pumping loss, not a storage of air as you put it. But there's a lot more pumping loss that can be reduced. What a larger area does is reduce the surface boundary layer. I'll save that lesson for another day.

-R