[varun]

As a proud BMW owner & enthusiast, I regretfully have to say that I agree with the above comment that BMW has not delivered with the 2014's. I waited, paid a premium, and got the LCI as it promised a new of new and improved tech. In this case NOT. Audi/MB/Ford and now even Hyundai have provided better technology.
All the rants about 'oh you must be more engaged' IS NOT THE POINT here. I'm a driver like the rest of you and I don't rely on this technology. All i'm saying is that I have extensively tested out the system as I was very excited to get 5AT on my LCI. Yes it will come to a standstill through the system at low speeds but the 25mph test is senseless as you will likely not die in a fender bender. You need this on the highway when you are cruising at 70mph and the car ahead of you slams on their brakes & for whatever reason your reaction time was not sufficient to avoid a collision.
I think the fear of litigation excuse/reasoning makes no sense at all. If that was the case, why offer the option at all? How about 'i'm now suing as the car did not brake in time and they all died'. If their lawyers thought that was a problem you would sign a disclosure of some sort just like you sign your life away with the rest of their fine print.
I have extensively tested out this system & its disappointing compared to what else is out there. I doubt the 7 series brakes any harder or holds a lane either. Again i'm not saying this technology is a necessity or that YOU need it. Its just nice to have it perfected if you pay for the option. If the RS6 or E63 can do this well, and hold a lane in the next 2-3 years & BMW STILL cannot, they are going to lose my business when i'm ready for my next car..

[lovec1990]

varun: they did perfected their system witch is meant too assist the driver and not to taking away drivers responsability.

[ErnestHouse]

@lovec1990: Do you have an LCI?

Perfected? That's a joke right?

Plenty of people with the 5 series LCI are seeing that in spite of ACC with Stop and Go claiming it will detect stationary objects, it doesn't. Moving yes. Stationary, no. Hardly perfected.

[lovec1990]

no but i test driven a LCI F07 and it did detect stationary object and stoped

[ErnestHouse]

Originally Posted by lovec1990

no but i test driven a LCI F07 and it did detect stationary object and stoped

A) The F07 has a different level of implementation as per the 5 series LCI technical manual (see earlier post)
B) A test drive isn't enough to claim the system is perfected

When traveling at >37 MPH, the ACC w/Stop and Go is supposed to lock onto the car in front and adjust your speed to match it. It will stop your car if the car in front stops and within 5 seconds, startup again when it starts. If there is no car in front for it to lock on to and follow but there is a car in your lane that's out of range ahead and stopped, you will crash into it. At 40-50 mph, you must intervene to prevent the accident well before the collision warning goes on and we all know any braking that happens will not prevent the crash. Myself and others have experienced this many times.

If you had it you'd know that you have to trust the ACC Stop and Go to brake. Normally you might brake before it. If you do, you will break the radar lock and disable the system therefore losing the benefits of the Stop and Go. But without a better implementation for stopped cars ahead, you cannot trust it. If you trust it and come up on stopped cars, it actually causes the accident instead of preventing it. Perfected?

[lovec1990]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

A) The F07 has a different level of implementation as per the 5 series LCI technical manual (see earlier post)
B) A test drive isn't enough to claim the system is perfected

When traveling at >37 MPH, the ACC w/Stop and Go is supposed to lock onto the car in front and adjust your speed to match it. It will stop your car if the car in front stops and within 5 seconds, startup again when it starts. If there is no car in front for it to lock on to and follow but there is a car in your lane that's out of range ahead and stopped, you will crash into it. At 40-50 mph, you must intervene to prevent the accident well before the collision warning goes on and we all know any braking that happens will not prevent the crash. Myself and others have experienced this many times. Perfected?

dont know about you but F07 did stoped at very similar situation, but speed was 40km/h-50km/h and last time i checked F10 and F07 have same system inside its 7 series that have advanced one

[ErnestHouse]

Originally Posted by lovec1990

dont know about you but F07 did stoped at very similar situation, but speed was 40km/h-50km/h and last time i checked F10 and F07 have same system inside its 7 series that have advanced one

Sorry. I thought you test drove a 7 series (F01). My bad.

Regardless, I think you have confused the ACC Stop and go with collision warning and braking. Yes, ACC stop and go will stop the car at Highway speeds if it is engaged and it locks on the car in front. If it is not engaged or locked on, the collision warning with braking will not stop the car in time to prevent a collision at anything faster than 12 MPH.

[lovec1990]

meybe you are right but car did stoped by itself, but im not sure what did stoped the car it was fully loaded with driver assistance plus and ACC Stop and go+congestion assistant and all was turned on exept congestion assistant was in ready mode

[varun]

Originally Posted by lovec1990

varun: they did perfected their system witch is meant too assist the driver and not to taking away drivers responsability.

Firstly (well for the 3rd time now), I'm not saying that I'd like my car to take away my driving responsibility. I'm not looking for an 'autopilot', and I dont expect this 5er LCI to hold a lane.
My point is simple, the system is FAR from perfected. Yes it will prevent a collision and come to a complete stop at speeds under 30mph approx but there are several flaws in the system. It does not work very well at highway speeds above 55mph. The radar does not look deep or far enough, and does not react in time when the car ahead is slowing down, even moderately. Brake pressure if applied too late (much like a tail gater) and not firmly enough, I almost always have to intervene and apply more brakes (upto ABS) to prevent the collision.
At first I thought that my LCI build was too early, I got the car last September but now 10 months later with no updates, and 10k+ miles clocked with a lot of use of the system, I'm just reporting that its inferior to what else is out there. BMW needs to step up their game with this one, thats all..

[ErnestHouse]

Where I live it's very common to approach standing traffic at 40-50MPH. I've never experienced any warnings or braking of any sort with or without ACC on before I chickened out and intervened as described earlier.

This video is from 2011:

A more recent test with the 5 series:

Nothing like the X5 shown here:

[varun]

I would say that at 35mph my system gives the audible alarm in response to halted traffic ahead and just about comes to a halt with the system set to MAX distance between the two vehicles. At anything faster than 40mph, i'm almost certain it would rear end the car ahead as I've to intervene & apply full brake pressure up to ABS to stop the car.
These videos are a great example, the last video of the X5 is what the system SHOULD be doing in North America but it DOES NOT apply full brake pressure like the X5 does. Video two of the 5er crashing is what will happen if you rely on this system to brake or slow the car down, when the speed differential is high between two vehicles.
If only the radar looked further down the road, reacted quicker, and applied more brake pressure, this system would sort of work well, but sadly it does not

[ErnestHouse]

For a week now, I've had opportunity to test the ACC w/Stop and Go and the Collision Warning in both Highway and 40-50MPH multilane roads that grid south Florida. FWIW, I set my car's collision warning to maximum warning sensitivity before I drove it off the lot.

PREFACE: I don't want a car that drives. But I'm old/wise enough to realize I'm fallible and my expectation of the 2014 systems was that they would have back. Despite my criticisms, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who loves his BMW more than I.

I've had enough occasions where the ACC S&G had me barreling into stopped traffic at 50MPH that I can't trust the system in that scenario. Yet. But recently, there were times when it did detect stopped traffic and brought the car to a quick ACC S&G style stop. But these were under 50MPH. I feel I can trust it under 50.

On the Highway, when using ACC S&G with one second following distance, the car in front braked to slow down and ACC S&G failed to react to the point where the collision visible and audible system triggered. I intervened with primed brakes thanks to the collision warning.

I have never ever felt the car brake on it's own based on the collision system (aka no ACC S&G). Others have and I take them at their word but I don't trust my F07 to do that.

Without hard data on speeds and detection errors, I find it impossible to really say how well BMW implemented their systems in the 2014 vs the others. Rate of closure is critical and varies in the videos and user claims. I personally wish there were videos like the X5 that showed the F10/F11/F07 cars stopping before collision using the collision braking alone but in many cases. However, I do feel in many situations the car will have my back. Between the two of us, we should cover it all. YMMV

Here's to hoping there's an update that improves it.

[ezmaass]

Originally Posted by ErnestHouse

For a week now, I've had opportunity to test the ACC w/Stop and Go and the Collision Warning in both Highway and 40-50MPH multilane roads that grid south Florida. FWIW, I set my car's collision warning to maximum warning sensitivity before I drove it off the lot.

PREFACE: I don't want a car that drives. But I'm old/wise enough to realize I'm fallible and my expectation of the 2014 systems was that they would have back. Despite my criticisms, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who loves his BMW more than I.

I've had enough occasions where the ACC S&G had me barreling into stopped traffic at 50MPH that I can't trust the system in that scenario. Yet. But recently, there were times when it did detect stopped traffic and brought the car to a quick ACC S&G style stop. But these were under 50MPH. I feel I can trust it under 50.

On the Highway, when using ACC S&G with one second following distance, the car in front braked to slow down and ACC S&G failed to react to the point where the collision visible and audible system triggered. I intervened with primed brakes thanks to the collision warning.

I have never ever felt the car brake on it's own based on the collision system (aka no ACC S&G). Others have and I take them at their word but I don't trust my F07 to do that.

Without hard data on speeds and detection errors, I find it impossible to really say how well BMW implemented their systems in the 2014 vs the others. Rate of closure is critical and varies in the videos and user claims. I personally wish there were videos like the X5 that showed the F10/F11/F07 cars stopping before collision using the collision braking alone but in many cases. However, I do feel in many situations the car will have my back. Between the two of us, we should cover it all. YMMV

Here's to hoping there's an update that improves it.

I think your points are fair enough. Hopefully BMW will continue to improve these systems - I'm sure they will. For the time being, I pretend as if they're not there. If collision warning comes on, I take it as a friendly "back seat driver" reminder to press the brake - but I, too, would never really rely on it to brake the car just because BMW says it should (under 37mph, that is).

Then again, just because I haven't ever felt it intervene, doesn't mean it wouldn't if necessary. It's sort of like saying, my airbags have never gone off, so how do I know they'll work? Well, I don't. I just trust that they will. It would be great to see more videos showing these tests (on recent 2014's) similar to those posted above. The only way a consumer can really trust a system like this is by seeing it tested - very few drivers will ever want to perform their own real world test (nor should they IMHO).

But again, I think your points are fair. We BMW owners have high expectations, and rightfully so for cars that cost the amount they do. All said, though, I also counter that criticism with an understanding that one car won't be the best at everything. So, if BMW is trailing some of its competitors in one aspect of technology, it's also beating it in many other areas. I expect they have a keen eye on their under-performing technologies (especially as they gain consumer criticism) and will work to improve them.

[ErnestHouse]

I wanted to update this thread to say after about 13K miles on my car of mostly suburban driving, I did experience the car autonomously brake when I was NOT using ACC S&G . I had a situation and I could see the car in front would pull onto a side street. It was all happening under 50mph. My 2014 F07 fired the visual and audible collision warnings. I had my foot on the brake pedal and felt the pedal move and car brake. I was coasting and creeping up on the car in front but could tell the car in front would clear. I found the car's collision braking perfectly reasonable however.