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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums General 5-Series Sedan and Wagon (F10 / F11) Forum Question for you diesel owners
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      08-03-2014, 06:14 PM   #1
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Question for you diesel owners

I just wanted some input for you guys with diesel engines in your cars.

I just got my first diesel powered car back in May and I have noticed something with my engine that I am not sure is normal or not.
For the record, I have a -12 M550d x-drive, the 6 cylinder tri-turbo 3 liter diesel, with 29.000km on the clock.

The thing I have noticed is a moderate engine vibration when accelerating, especially in 7th and 8th gear, in lack of a better explanation I would describe it similar as pre-stall vibrations. I have experienced similar though much stronger vibrations on regular fuel cars if you are driving really slow in a high gear and almost stall the engine.

On my car these vibrations is not that strong, but I can feel it, this occurs at road speeds (50-60kph and up) if I start to accelerate between 1000-1500rpm, the vibrations are there well past 2000rpm. They are not present if I downshift first bringing the revs up around 2000rpm before accelerating.

I was thinking that:
1. This is normal for diesel engines
2. Software update might help.
3. Turbo issue
4. x-drive issue (very unlikely)

Any thoughts before I take it to the dealer?
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      08-03-2014, 11:34 PM   #2
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I have the 3l diesel N57D30O1 with one turbo, 258 hp. No chipbox, all in stock except the Supersprint quad exhaust installed this year. The engine provides the typical "diesel sound" when idle, and some very small vibration. But once accelerated - I can barely hear it, the power and torque are absolute smooth and strong from 1000 rpm till 5500 rpm. Transmission is smooth. No interruption or any noises at all.

What you describe sounds like when yours reach a specific rpm under load, your engine chokes the similar way as a petrol engine and mechanical transmission do at low rpm and wrong gear. However you have 380 hp engine and automatic transmission. Therefore some of engine parameters is out of normal.

There is nothing of that kind on my diesel after 65000 km done in summer and winter. Sounds like it is air sensors/air intake issue, or something is wrong with fuel ramp. Your car is on warranty, so the dealer must detect and document the issue and fix it at no cost to you. Wish you good luck with fast resolution! The car is great, you will enjoy it.
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      08-03-2014, 11:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valery.BMW View Post
I have the 3l diesel N57D30O1 one turbo, 258 hp. The engine provides the "diesel sound" when idle, and some very small vibration. But once I accelerate - I barely hear it, the power and torque are absolute smooth from 1000 rpm till 5500 rpm. No interruption at all.

What you describe sounds like when yours reach a specific rpm under load, it chokes the similar way to the petrol engine and mechanical transmission at low rpm and wrong gear. However you have 380 hp engine and automatic transmission. Therefore some of engine parameters is out of normal.

I confirm, there is nothing of that kind on my diesel for 65000 km summer and winter. If this is not air sensors issue, maybe something with fuel ramp. Car is on warranty, so the dealer must document the issue and fix it at no cost. Wish you good luck with fast resolution. The car is great.
Thanks, yes you are right it acts like what you describe, like if you are driving a petrol engine on too high a gear when accelerating. mine shudders just a little bit, but enough for me to notice, even at 1000rpm this engine has a massive torque reaching it's peak 740nm at 2000rpm.

I planned to take it to the dealer as I have a good relationship with them, I just wanted to know if this was something you had to expect on a turbo diesel as I have only had petrol cars in the past.
Saves me from standing there as an idiot when the dealer tells me that this is perfectly natural.
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      08-04-2014, 12:18 AM   #4
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Well, you are the warranty holder for the car, and the dealer's duty is to make you happy. I made my dealer a hard day once, when fixing the famous "pulling to the right" issue To make the case clear I took printed pictures with me and dealer put them into job file.

Could help a lot if you can provide video and sound record of what makes you concerned. Let them file oil type and what diesel station you normally use. Anyway if they run engine diagnostics on dyno stand, all should be visible.
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      08-04-2014, 01:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valery.BMW View Post
Well, you are the warranty holder for the car, and the dealer's duty is to make you happy. I made my dealer a hard day once, when fixing the famous "pulling to the right" issue To make the case clear I took printed pictures with me and dealer put them into job file.

Could help a lot if you can provide video and sound record of what makes you concerned. Let them file oil type and what diesel station you normally use. Anyway if they run engine diagnostics on dyno stand, all should be visible.
As I know how to reproduce the problem I think I will just take a tech out for a drive and show them the issue for themselves.
This is a fairly small dealer and I have had plenty of dealing with them in the past so they pretty much know me.
I am not worried about them taking me serious. The salesman is someone I have known for years through the BMW club, and I have bought several cars from him in the last 8 years.

I guess I just have to go there tell them what I have found and take a demonstration drive, leave it, get a loaner car and they will call me when it's fixed.
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      08-04-2014, 04:01 AM   #6
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What you are describing can happen with any type of engine.

Don't forget you have got a massive output (torque); so flooring it in high gear <1200rpm will release some force to your engine.

One thing I have to comment; in my opinion the tri-turbo runs quite rough compared to the single (530d) and twin-turbo (535d). I drive the 535d and I find it so much smoother than the 550d. I have testdriven the 550d extensively but I am happy I have made the choice for the 535d.
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      08-04-2014, 04:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
What you are describing can happen with any type of engine.

Don't forget you have got a massive output (torque); so flooring it in high gear <1200rpm will release some force to your engine.

One thing I have to comment; in my opinion the tri-turbo runs quite rough compared to the single (530d) and twin-turbo (535d). I drive the 535d and I find it so much smoother than the 550d. I have testdriven the 550d extensively but I am happy I have made the choice for the 535d.
I'm not flooring it, some times just slightly increasing the throttle, I feel this especially in 7th - 8th gear when making a speed adjustment from 70-80kph or from 80-100kph. And it is not just for a few seconds in the beginning, it is well past 2000rpm.
but like I said, if I shift down to 5th or 6th first it does not happen.

I know this will happen too any engine if you drive slow enough or up a steep enough incline in too high a gear, I just did not expect this to happen with this engine doing simple speed corrections.

When driving in a sporty manner this is not a problem, but when in "eco" mode this is bugging me.
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      08-04-2014, 06:47 PM   #8
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I have exactly the same issue with my 535d xDrive 313hp 70K km. bought it new in Sept 2012.

Only recently in 6th, 7th & 8th gear under light acceleration I get an engine stutter similar to stalling. Annoying vibration similar to driving on the wrong gear on low rpms

Nothing on the steering wheel only a feeling on my "butt meter", it's an engine vibration or maybe the transfer box. I recently took the car in for service, had all the wheels balanced because of this, since it's still under warranty they did an extensive check & road test & found that one of the engine dampers was worn & replaced it, they updated the car to the latest firmware (dated May 2014) but still the issue remains.

I'll take it in again for further examination & maybe replace the second damper.

Let me know if you have any updates on your end
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      08-05-2014, 01:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo_spain View Post
I have exactly the same issue with my 535d xDrive 313hp 70K km. bought it new in Sept 2012.

Only recently in 6th, 7th & 8th gear under light acceleration I get an engine stutter similar to stalling. Annoying vibration similar to driving on the wrong gear on low rpms

Nothing on the steering wheel only a feeling on my "butt meter", it's an engine vibration or maybe the transfer box. I recently took the car in for service, had all the wheels balanced because of this, since it's still under warranty they did an extensive check & road test & found that one of the engine dampers was worn & replaced it, they updated the car to the latest firmware (dated May 2014) but still the issue remains.

I'll take it in again for further examination & maybe replace the second damper.

Let me know if you have any updates on your end
Sounds like we have exactly the same issue.

I will take mine to the dealer, but that wont be for another 2,5 week, I am in South-Korea working so I wont be able to have it checked before I get back home.

I will update this thread once I have been to the dealer.
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      09-15-2014, 09:50 AM   #10
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Update.

My car is in the shop.

By chance the BMW dealer where I bought the car had a x-drive roadshow campaign this week with a dozen demo cars, and one of the demo cars was a brand new M550xd touring.
So I took that car for a test drive. It has none of the vibrations during acceleration that my car has so the dealer took mine in for a tech to look at it. Fortunately my car is still under warranty so either way this will not cost me anything.

I will go to Korea again tomorrow so I just left the car with them so they have a month to fix this while I'm at work.
They said similar symptoms had been seen if the x-drive transfer box was having issues on other cars so it was not necessarily an engine problem.

I will update again when I know more, probably in a month or so.
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      09-26-2014, 05:41 PM   #11
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Update from the BMW shop.

I just got an email update from the shop.
They have replaced the x-drive distribution box, this made some improvement, but they are not satisfied with the result and will continue troubleshooting the issue next week.

Really happy we have 5 year warranty in my country or this would have put my wallet in intensive care. The distribution box is $5.600 just for the part, plus labor, and its still not fixed, would not be surprised if this ends up around $10.000 before its fixed.
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      09-27-2014, 02:20 AM   #12
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Sounds typical for a dealer: they love to replace the whole car parts without looking inside for a real cause. From your description we see the engine chokes on specific ride conditions. It looks like something may be wrong with the fuel ramp pressure or air supply... while dealer started to replace drivetrain OK let's see how it all will work. You are lucky your car is on warranty, so the main concern is that they are keeping your BMW in a shop for longer and still investigating.
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      09-27-2014, 03:46 AM   #13
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The symptoms OP is describing are identical my F10 528xi has been suffering since day one - and I always attributed it to the little N20 engine just being to weak for this heavy car, and laboring under load as long as the turbo doesn't assist in sufficiently (i.e. below 2000 rpm). I took it for granted that those vibrations at gentle acceleration on high gear from some 1200 rpm are just the result of too weak engine in too heavy a car, and it has been a source of my 528xi buyers remorse. If I'm planning on swapping my car for another model with the true-bimmer, I6 engine is just because of this very problem!

However, the OP's car has massive power and especially the torque, so if both our cars do it for the same reason, my theory about N20 engine just being a mis-match with the F10 is no longer valid... Would/could it be the xDrive distribution box, after all?!!!

Noggie - please keep us updated on the final output. If your service finally finds out nothing is wrong with the engine, and the source of vibration is indeed the xDrive power train - please let us know; it could mean that by pressing my dealer hard enough, I could have the entire experience with my car improved !!!
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      09-27-2014, 04:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valery.BMW View Post
Sounds typical for a dealer: they love to replace the whole car parts without looking inside for a real cause. From your description we see the engine chokes on specific ride conditions. It looks like something may be wrong with the fuel ramp pressure or air supply... while dealer started to replace drivetrain OK let's see how it all will work. You are lucky your car is on warranty, so the main concern is that they are keeping your BMW in a shop for longer and still investigating.
I think they started with the drive train because they have seen this issue on other models in the past, after all, Norway has proper winters so x-drive models are very popular, and probably make up more than half the cars sold.
I was actually leaning towards the variable turbo vanes before I brought the car to the shop, two of my 3 turbos have variable impeller pitch and I was thinking this might have caused the issue.
My job is rotation based so I'm away for 4 weeks at at time, giving the shop 4 weeks to troubleshoot my car while I'm at work, so I'm a bit lucky there too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moldcad View Post
Noggie - please keep us updated on the final output. If your service finally finds out nothing is wrong with the engine, and the source of vibration is indeed the xDrive power train - please let us know; it could mean that by pressing my dealer hard enough, I could have the entire experience with my car improved !!!
I will, that was sort of the whole idea with this thread, hopefully they can fix it and we can get a solution to this issue.
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      09-28-2014, 08:31 AM   #15
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A long shot but could it be a faulty engine or sensor? A while back, my current car would judder when decelerating. Turned out to be a faulty exhaust gas sensor
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      09-28-2014, 05:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WillieMaykit View Post
A long shot but could it be a faulty engine or sensor? A while back, my current car would judder when decelerating. Turned out to be a faulty exhaust gas sensor
I am in South-Korea, and my car has been in the shop for almost two weeks now, and since I'm not returning home for another 2,5 weeks they have some time to figure it out.
I guess that by the time I get back it will be fixed and I will post the solution here for future reference.
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      10-01-2014, 01:09 PM   #17
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I have the same issue with my 550XI only in 8th gear and after the engine is warm. Hope there is a solution because it's a great car otherwise
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      10-13-2014, 04:52 AM   #18
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As I am close to travelling back home, and the car has now been in the shop for 4 weeks I simply asked if my car was ready to be picked up Friday morning.

The response was that the car would be ready.
They have replaced the X-drive distribution box and are now replacing the diesel injectors.

I will update again when I get home and have collected the car.
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      10-14-2014, 05:16 PM   #19
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Got another update from the shop.

They now claim the car is OK, they replaced the x-drive distribution box and the diesel injectors.
However they said they had opened up parts of my engine, and there was a lot of sot buildup inside.
I bought the car in May, and have only done 1500km since then, so this must be from the previous owner as the "demo rides" I have given my friends, should not have caused the sot to build up in my engine.
They told me not to use eco-pro mode, and that I should use sport mode and take the car for a good long drive in sport under load to "clean" the engine.

Will update once I have picked up the car and taken it for a drive.
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      10-15-2014, 05:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noggie View Post
Got another update from the shop.

They now claim the car is OK, they replaced the x-drive distribution box and the diesel injectors.
However they said they had opened up parts of my engine, and there was a lot of sot buildup inside.
I bought the car in May, and have only done 1500km since then, so this must be from the previous owner as the "demo rides" I have given my friends, should not have caused the sot to build up in my engine.
They told me not to use eco-pro mode, and that I should use sport mode and take the car for a good long drive in sport under load to "clean" the engine.

Will update once I have picked up the car and taken it for a drive.
Interesting findings from the garage.

What sort of use does the car typically get, many decent (hot engine) cruises?

Just a thought, what diesel do you use? I'd be using a premium diesel with a decent additive package, do you have something like BP Ultimate or Shell V-Power which we get in the UK?

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      10-16-2014, 12:35 AM   #21
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This is actually what I am experiencing. Valve body.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8648728
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      10-16-2014, 05:11 AM   #22
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Although nobody can deny a probability of diesel engine to get carbonized because of constant run at low rpms, or injectors got dirty because of bad fuel (fuel wax) etc., still it is very unlikely compared to the petrol V8 used in a metro city. This was my main consideration when I decided to try out BMW diesel, and except some juniors' irony about quiet exhaust (while I believe it is an advantage), never regret about that decision. I commute with my 530d (258 hp) in the 16-million city, the 2-year statistics are taken today: 63916 km at average speed 25.3 km/h raised fuel consumption in the city to 11.5 l/km (against highway of 5.8 l/km):

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The engine together with its injectors and all stuff is absolutely perfect at all rpm range in both relaxed mode and DTS/DSC off full throttle. The car is just great for the present conditions, also because of the xDrive. The traveled distance seems to be enough for grounded conclusions about urban application with filling in at the branded fuel station and timely oil/filter service.

Anyway the injectors cleaning on the M550d (also with combustion catalyst) and use of a premium quality diesel is always good thing, I wish it would solve the discussed issue.

Last edited by valbmw; 10-16-2014 at 05:32 AM..
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