[blackhawk_pilot2000]

Needsdecaf,
How's your car after this latest fix? I'm thinking about bringing mine in again this week. It doesn't wander anymore nor does it pull hard but the darn thing won't go straight on it's own for more than 6 or so seconds. I don't know, am I expecting too much out of the F10? Is the though of releasing the steering wheel and without worry that it won't go straight all the way that far fetched? It will go straight for what seems a little while but then as expected by me it'll start drifting right. Been in 4 times already and each time it's gotten much better, just not perfect as some of my friends F10s get to enjoy from the get go.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot2000

Needsdecaf,
How's your car after this latest fix? I'm thinking about bringing mine in again this week. It doesn't wander anymore nor does it pull hard but the darn thing won't go straight on it's own for more than 6 or so seconds. I don't know, am I expecting too much out of the F10? Is the though of releasing the steering wheel and without worry that it won't go straight all the way that far fetched? It will go straight for what seems a little while but then as expected by me it'll start drifting right. Been in 4 times already and each time it's gotten much better, just not perfect as some of my friends F10s get to enjoy from the get go.

This is why I hesitate to bring it to the dealer. It may not be any better, and odds are good that it could end up worse.

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot2000

Needsdecaf,
How's your car after this latest fix? I'm thinking about bringing mine in again this week. It doesn't wander anymore nor does it pull hard but the darn thing won't go straight on it's own for more than 6 or so seconds. I don't know, am I expecting too much out of the F10? Is the though of releasing the steering wheel and without worry that it won't go straight all the way that far fetched? It will go straight for what seems a little while but then as expected by me it'll start drifting right. Been in 4 times already and each time it's gotten much better, just not perfect as some of my friends F10s get to enjoy from the get go.

I believe this is due to building tolerances. I too have driven different model BMW's. Some go more straight than others. My 328i has this exact same feeling you are talking about. However, our X5 doesn't pull at all and it tracks pretty damn straight for a long time after letting go of the steering wheel.

It's pretty annoying.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot2000

Needsdecaf,
How's your car after this latest fix? I'm thinking about bringing mine in again this week. It doesn't wander anymore nor does it pull hard but the darn thing won't go straight on it's own for more than 6 or so seconds. I don't know, am I expecting too much out of the F10? Is the though of releasing the steering wheel and without worry that it won't go straight all the way that far fetched? It will go straight for what seems a little while but then as expected by me it'll start drifting right. Been in 4 times already and each time it's gotten much better, just not perfect as some of my friends F10s get to enjoy from the get go.

Sounds much like yours. The wandering feeling is GONE. Steering feels much more accurate, direct and decisive. I wonder if the complete software re-load I had done (for other reasons) wiped out whatever "patch" was done when I first bought the car. However, the car still does pull to the right. I had a friend of mine who literally has owned over 200 cars drive it Monday and he concurred. It's crown sensitive...more crown and it pulls more. Moderate left crown and it drives straight or BARELY pulls to the right. hell, even on max left crown it even pulls left. But I just did a 600 mile slog this weekend in my wife's car and it doesn't pull like the 535 does.

I have contacted my servicing dealer and asked it be escalated to the SM level.

[BimmerGuyFL]

I wonder if an alignment with weights in the car will make the car drive better than the hunter Machines that do not use weights and compensate for that when alignments are done. Old School BMW's used weights in the drivers, Passangers, rear seat, and in the trunk to weight the car down. Anyone have any idea on this?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I believe this is due to building tolerances. I too have driven different model BMW's. Some go more straight than others. My 328i has this exact same feeling you are talking about. However, our X5 doesn't pull at all and it tracks pretty damn straight for a long time after letting go of the steering wheel.

It's pretty annoying.

Funny, but the two 328 loaners I have had also drifted a bit excessively. But not as bad as my 535.

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Funny, but the two 328 loaners I have had also drifted a bit excessively. But not as bad as my 535.

I do agree the 3-series do have a bit of a drift but not as bad as I have seen on the 5-series. This can not be normal, but many seem to be affected by this. How can some models drift and pull and others (My X5) do not pull at all and seems like the steering is balanced left and right and tracks straight for a VERY long time without steering adjustment?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I do agree the 3-series do have a bit of a drift but not as bad as I have seen on the 5-series. This can not be normal, but many seem to be affected by this. How can some models drift and pull and others (My X5) do not pull at all and seems like the steering is balanced left and right and tracks straight for a VERY long time without steering adjustment?

It's very puzzling.

It seems to be mostly suffered by the cars fitting the following profile:

535
RWD
Manufactured prior to Sept 2010.

I have seen some later cars with issues. I cannot recall any xi cars with issues or any 528 or 550's with issues. Perhaps I should take a poll...

I have had two dealers work on my car. I've had; 2 alignment;, 1 alignment check; 2 sets of tires two tires side-side swaps (one on each set); I've had (supposedly, although it hasn't shown up on the work order) two software patches; struts rotated; road force balancing with resulting alignment and a full look at the suspension. Note, I changed the set to go from Summer only to all season tires, not because of the pulling.

My hypothesis: something in the electric power steering is at fault. I am not that big of an expert on power steering systems in general, much less electric power steering, but honestly, what else can it be? The xi does not have EPS. The EPS is tuned differently for each car, since the weight of the engine and the overall weight balance affects the necessary amount of power steering assistance. This would seem to further the hypothesis that it's EPS - the 535i's has it's own steering parameters on a system not shared with any other 535.

Also, my local shop foreman notes that there is no part number change to the EPS for pre- or post- Sept build cars. Or at all for that matter. And for those who aren't that familiar with the way these cars work, software number is KEY. If your part is electronic and doesn't have the correct software number, the car's overall system will cry foul. This is why, despite being exactly the same part, the Sport Auto trans's shifter cannot be swapped for the shifter on the normal transmission. THe computer will not accept it as it has a different part number.

Kind of a crazy situation.

[delvek]

I think its a very small population and there are definitely specific characteristics, whether they are ones decaf pointed out or more specifically (and something BMW probably knows) a bad part.

I went through this whole deal with my 1st F10 and talked with many people who didnt have any of the pulling issues to the point that I would even doubt it was real, maybe it was all in my head, but in the end it wasnt.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by delvek

I think its a very small population and there are definitely specific characteristics, whether they are ones decaf pointed out or more specifically (and something BMW probably knows) a bad part.

I went through this whole deal with my 1st F10 and talked with many people who didnt have any of the pulling issues to the point that I would even doubt it was real, maybe it was all in my head, but in the end it wasnt.

Yeah, sometimes I feel like maybe I have automotive hypochondria over the issue. I had my friend drive it this week and he confirmed I wasn't crazy.

[FG]

Pre 09 2010 build and I my experience has been similar.
The pulling to the right issue isn't as prevalent but the vague on center feel and constant steering input/adjustment has not been resolved.

[BimmerGuyFL]

So today I had the chance to test drive a new 2011 BMW X3. The test drive was conducted on the highway, left, middle, right lane, and back roads. First I must say I checked also to see if it had a drift or pull to the right. The X3 definitely had a feeling more towards drifting to the right than the left on all lanes and roads I went on. I paid CLOSE attention to this. It wasn't severe but paying close attention to it did display a tendency for a right side pull. My 328i also has this slight behavior.

I believe this seems to be normal in my opinion. Some cars might show it more than others. But in general because of crowns in the road for drainage there is no way around this. Just my two cents.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

So today I had the chance to test drive a new 2011 BMW X3. The test drive was conducted on the highway, left, middle, right lane, and back roads. First I must say I checked also to see if it had a drift or pull to the right. The X3 definitely had a feeling more towards drifting to the right than the left on all lanes and roads I went on. I paid CLOSE attention to this. It wasn't severe but paying close attention to it did display a tendency for a right side pull. My 328i also has this slight behavior.

I believe this seems to be normal in my opinion. Some cars might show it more than others. But in general because of crowns in the road for drainage there is no way around this. Just my two cents.

My car pulls right against a left crown.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by FG

Pre 09 2010 build and I my experience has been similar.
The pulling to the right issue isn't as prevalent but the vague on center feel and constant steering input/adjustment has not been resolved.

My car has just now (at 6K miles) decided to start pulling a bit to the right. The vague on center and adjustment issue has been there from day one. Next month the BMW Field Service Engineer (I think that's right - they refer to him as the FSE) will be examining my car for my poor idle issue, and while it's in the shop I'm going to have them look at the steering.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

My car has just now (at 6K miles) decided to start pulling a bit to the right. The vague on center and adjustment issue has been there from day one. Next month the BMW Field Service Engineer (I think that's right - they refer to him as the FSE) will be examining my car for my poor idle issue, and while it's in the shop I'm going to have them look at the steering.

Sounds like you and I have the same problems, and are having the same steps. My car goes in again tomorrow for examination by the FSE as well as some other mystery people...more on that later.

How long does your bad idle last? Mine happens on warm starts, not all, and lasts maybe 3-5 seconds.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

How long does your bad idle last? Mine happens on warm starts, not all, and lasts maybe 3-5 seconds.

Mine begins at the first opportunity after any start and remains until I turn off the engine. Only the severity (from mild to car bucking like a dragster) varies.

Of course, so far BMW says "no problem found" or "operates to normal specs" or "they all do that" or "no codes found" depending on who you talk to.

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Mine begins at the first opportunity after any start and remains until I turn off the engine. Only the severity (from mild to car bucking like a dragster) varies.

Of course, so far BMW says "no problem found" or "operates to normal specs" or "they all do that" or "no codes found" depending on who you talk to.

Ah, mine's not that bad.

it only happens on warm starts, not cold, and not hot (i.e. less than 10 minutes of cool down). The max delta in revs from normal idle is about 500 RPM (low as 500, high as 1200 or so. And once I put the car in drive, it's gone.

My car is in today for the suspension. Apparently factory suspension reps are being flown in. We'll see how this plays out...

[BimmerGuyFL]

I heard that there is a new part number for the Electric Steering Rack starting for production cars 03/2011. Part can be found on RealOEM.com. I read that it has a different steering feel and function. Just FYI.

[Vinfast]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I heard that there is a new part number for the Electric Steering Rack starting for production cars 03/2011. Part can be found on RealOEM.com. I read that it has a different steering feel and function. Just FYI.

I wonder if the dealership would update these parts onto the earlier production cars to get a stiffer feel --- I doubt it.

[Needsdecaf]

I have some new information in this continuing saga...at least I think.

Quick summary of my saga:

* Bought the car CPO. 535i Sport. 4/10 build car. 7,100 miles

* When I first drove the car, back in January 2011, I picked up on the pull to the right. At that time, from what I read on the boards, it could be solved. I had heard of the software upgrades and the spring rotation.

* Told the dealer that I wouldn't buy the car if they couldn't fix the issue. Provided the dealer with the bulletins from this forum with the software update.

* Pulled FSH. Nothing on FSH other than a seat adjustment at port and usual pre-sale service.

* Dealer performed the software update and rotated the struts.

* Went back a week later, check in hand. Drove the car and if felt much improved. Bought the car.

* Two days later, switched RFT's for Conti Extreme Contact DWS's. One day after that, snowmegeddon hits DC.

* Noticed pull to the right was returning. Brought car in for that and a bunch of other minor stuff. Turns out car had a bunch of "out of calibrations" electrical messages. Dealer re-loaded entire software suite, hoped that this would fix the steering pull to the right.

* It did not. Set up another appointment to install a part that was ordered.

* Brought car in. Road force balancing performed. Road force balancing spit out suggestions to change the suspension, alignment changed to match.

* Car felt much different. High speed stability and wandering gone, pull to the right greatly reduced, seemingly still there.

* Fast forward a month. High speed wandering back. Pull to the right is bad. Schedule another appointment at the dealer. This dealer is not the selling dealer (who is 100 miles south). Engage selling dealer to help work through and start potential buy back if necessary.

* Repairing dealer responds saying that their techs do not see an issue. I respond with the BS flag and insist that it get elevated to BMWNA.

* Dealer forwards description to BMWNA. This is where the fun begins.....

So three days after I got the "you have no problem" email from the repairing dealer, I get another saying "we have been asked to order a steering column for your car. We will let you know when it is in and it can be installed".

Uh, what? A steering column? What's that going to fix? Dunno, replies the dealer. That's what we were told.

The part comes in, and I find out that not only is the regional FSE coming out, but the "front chassis expert" from BMWNA is also coming to look at my car. Wow.

Bring the car in, it is extensively test driven. Steering column is changed out. The chassis expert sees a big difference but is still not happy. Pokes around the front suspension with a micrometer. Notices that when the selling dealer attempted the spring rotation, that it was improperly done, and they were only turned 1/2 as much as they should have been. They are re-adjusted, the car is re-aligned and the tires are re-balanced.

The engineer is very happy, but not completely happy. Something is still "off" in his mind. Then he swaps the wheels for the wheels on his company car. Turns out the difference he is feeling is the difference between his RFT's and my non-RFT tires. Yes, really. He is happy with the car.

I picked the car up tonight, and hit traffic all the way home. Didn't get it over 35 mph but it seems very different. I can't wait to take it out on the highway tomorrow. It seems decidedly different.

Turns out that this problem is well known to BMWNA. There are three fixes.

1. EPS software patch. This supposedly adjusts the way the EPS responds to the forces from road crown.

2. Spring rotation. This affects how the car responds to crown and bump steer.

3. Steering column. Rumored to have a batch manufactured that was not within BMW's tolerances. Supposedly it has something to do with the torque characteristics of the column and it's resistance to being pulled by bumps and road crown. New part was installed as of August or September 2010 production.

So I hope that this fixes it. Because I don't know what else it could be aside from the steering rack or EPS. The rest of the suspension is within tolerance. I will report back tomorrow after more miles are under my belt.

Kudos to my local dealer, BMW Fairfax, the shop foreman and the service director for bring this to bear and hopefully getting a solution. They have been very patient throughout this whole process. For the most part. And the shop foreman is one of the best that I have ever met

[radarguy]

Needsdecaf - What a saga. I hope it finally works. Did the engineer like the car better with the RFTs or with your tires?

[Needsdecaf]

Originally Posted by radarguy

Needsdecaf - What a saga. I hope it finally works. Did the engineer like the car better with the RFTs or with your tires?

LOL, Don't know.