[chuck92103]

Please, no complaints from those who bought an $70k BMW the first model year.

We all know BMW quality sucks. Do you really expect an issue-free car, for the first model year 5 series? You might want to call Dr. Phil.

[kel3]

i really think there was a batch of f10's built with these issues and unfortunately made it out to the consumers, there is no excuse for that but the f10 is not a bad car because a few hundred or thousand slipped through the cracks... any idea of how many people have the problem? estimates? we can do the math and come up with a percentage..

[grimlock]

I had to look up "Mechatronics"
fyi (wiki, highlights mine):

"Mechatronics is the combination of Mechanical engineering, Electronic engineering, Computer engineering, Control engineering, and Systems Design engineering in order to design, and manufacture useful products. Mechatronics is a multidisciplinary engineering system design, that is to say it rejects splitting engineering into separate disciplines."

Enough to think about for today..

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

Please, no complaints from those who bought an $70k BMW the first model year.

We all know BMW quality sucks. Do you really expect an issue-free car, for the first model year 5 series? You might want to call Dr. Phil.

I see you drive an X6 - if you know BMW quality sucks, why on earth did you buy it?
The F10 is, in my opinion, a very high quality car but, like many things in life, there are some problems with it.
Admittedly I'm not very happy with the steering, but as I've mentioned in the relevant threads, I did come from an E92 and was fully aware that I wasn't comparing like-with-like.
My dealership and BMW UK are being very supportive in resolving the issue and I don't think I'd receive such attention were it a lower quality brand, but I suspect that I'll either have to accept it as a characteristic of the car and adapt to it or move on.
For me the on-centre steering lacks the feel I'd like and I may yet be able to cure that with a tyre change, but in all other respects, I consider the F10 to be a very high quality car.
As a matter of interest, have you actually driven an F10?

[wonmarco]

Chuck,

I am not complaining about first year glitches as much as i am complaining about how BMW is handling them. I do not expect perfection in model year one, but I do expect the manufacturer to address the problem instead of pretending it does not exist.

[grimlock]

I get model year 1 for the new fresh looks

[stickypaws]

All brands have their specific problems: BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche. And they crank out thousands of these cars. Some samples end up being problematic. Some vendor's components end up being defective and it takes time to rectify. Some design issues appear later on over bigger sample numbers, that never appeared during the manufacturer's extensive road testing.

All manufacturers tend to be coy about issues that consumers complain about. None will say, "yeah okay the whole thing is a mistake, please everybody return all your cars in at once." They all treat each case as a unique one-of-a-kind problem until the data from the dealer service shops prove otherwise.

This isn't a brand issue. It's an automobile design/manufacturing/production issue that you can get with any brand. And samples will vary despite strict quality control with all brands (no company puts out a crappy product intentionally.)

Maybe if we eliminate the BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Porsche/fill-in-the-blank brand devotion and look at someone's complaint as real to them and try to help, then we'll get somewhere. The OP can't get sympathy from BMW and now he can get it from BMW owners, either. That's kind of sad.

How about helping out rather than making yourselves feel good that your own cars are running great? Where's the empathy? We've all had problems somewhere along the line with cars we've owned.

To the OP: open an official case with BMW and ask the service manager to have your car there when the regional BMW tech can come to the shop. Having everything on record and documented (not just verbal) is important. Document any references you see to others saying they are experiencing the same issues. It takes patience, and it's no fun and is time consuming. But hang in there.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by chuck92103

Please, no complaints from those who bought an $70k BMW the first model year.

We all know BMW quality sucks. Do you really expect an issue-free car, for the first model year 5 series? You might want to call Dr. Phil.

I bought an X6 when it first came out pictured here.
I had NO Problems with it either you people do make me laugh.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

All brands have their specific problems: BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche. And they crank out thousands of these cars. Some samples end up being problematic. Some vendor's components end up being defective and it takes time to rectify. Some design issues appear later on over bigger sample numbers, that never appeared during the manufacturer's extensive road testing.

All manufacturers tend to be coy about issues that consumers complain about. None will say, "yeah okay the whole thing is a mistake, please everybody return all your cars in at once." They all treat each case as a unique one-of-a-kind problem until the data from the dealer service shops prove otherwise.

This isn't a brand issue. It's an automobile design/manufacturing/production issue that you can get with any brand. And samples will vary despite strict quality control with all brands (no company puts out a crappy product intentionally.)

Maybe if we eliminate the BMW/Audi/Mercedes/Porsche/fill-in-the-blank brand devotion and look at someone's complaint as real to them and try to help, then we'll get somewhere. The OP can't get sympathy from BMW and now he can get it from BMW owners, either. That's kind of sad.

How about helping out rather than making yourselves feel good that your own cars are running great? Where's the empathy? We've all had problems somewhere along the line with cars we've owned.

To the OP: open an official case with BMW and ask the service manager to have your car there when the regional BMW tech can come to the shop. Having everything on record and documented (not just verbal) is important. Document any references you see to others saying they are experiencing the same issues. It takes patience, and it's no fun and is time consuming. But hang in there.

Well said, I agree with most of your comment.

It really is how the car companies deal with issues which makes all the difference. Of course we are disappointed with out new purchase not being perfect, but we can smile once sorted. Been there, so know how it feels.

I have a friend who had a Honda with an engine issue. 'Even' the might of Honda couldn't find what was wrong, and they did try, repeatedly. Now that did surprise me, as I thought Honda being 'engine' men would have solved it.

Some issues do cause some serious head scratching, before a proper solution is releasesd to the market.

As an example, the BMW (and Jaguar) tramsmission 'jerk' or 'snatch' is not a new issue, we may be surprised it still can happen on a new model, but previous models eventually had Technical Service Bulletins issued on how to solve the problems.

HighlandPete

[F11-Diesel]

Stickypaws; chapeau!

You are so right.

Maybe as an aftertought, when you are going for service.
Think also about the position the service manager is in.
If he really doesn't have knowledge (very possible and very sad) of your problem, the simplest way to react for him is to act if the problem is not there at all.

Very wrong, for sure, but understandable.
You have to think something up to get him on your side beforehand.
You need him as an ally to get anywhere.
A sad circumstance, for sure, you have a problem and now you have to find an ally as well, no one is coming for the rescue. Well it is like that in the auto indiustrie.

On topic of your problems, 6 years ago there was quite a lot of termoil about the handling of the E60 malinfluenced by the RFT's. So what is going on now is another kind of the same settling in of a new model.

Personnely I think (I do not know) that quite a lot of the problems with the steering is about tires and suspension regulation. Not all that knowledge will be around at all dealers the first year. Not using RFT's might be the solution to much of these problems. There are quite a lot F10 drivers to have reported there initial problems (as in this topic) are solved.
It looks a bit grim talking about al kind of legal actions from this side of the ocean.

[Chickster]

When was your car produced? Mine was may 2010 and it displays all the problems. I've had a lot of BMWs and this is the only disappointing one, by far. I will probably trade within the next few months.

[wonmarco]

Mine is an October 2010 build.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by blackhawk_pilot2000

Those that post to say that their car is great should just save the effort and keep it to themselves.

Total BULL, the very few with problems need some comfort that the "Majority" are FAULTLESS and all my BMW's have been FAULTLESS

[Bamsha]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

Total BULL, the very few with problems need some comfort that the "Majority" are FAULTLESS and all my BMW's have been FAULTLESS

And those who are still waiting for their car to be delivered sure appreciate posts like yours.

[RH512]

As do those who hesitate to pull the trigger for fear of being another voice in the minority of those with problems.

[Titanflux]

What we have to realise is that any modern motor car - especially a premium one with lots of technology involved is a complex adaptive system. A step onwards from mechatronics into mathematics and philosophy perhaps...

Complex adaptive systems are characterised as follows and the most important are:

The number of elements is sufficiently large that conventional descriptions (e.g. a system of differential equations) are not only impractical, but cease to assist in understanding the system, the elements also have to interact and the interaction must be dynamic. Interactions can be physical or involve the exchange of information.
Such interactions are rich, i.e. any element in the system is affected and affects several other systems.
The interactions are non-linear which means that small causes can have large results.
Interactions are primarily but not exclusively with immediate neighbours and the nature of the influence is modulated.
Any interaction can feed back onto itself directly or after a number of intervening stages, such feedback can vary in quality. This is known as recurrency.
Such systems are open and it may be difficult or impossible to define system boundaries
Complex systems operate under far from equilibrium conditions, there has to be a constant flow of energy to maintain the organisation of the system
All complex systems have a history, they evolve and their past is co-responsible for their present behaviour
Elements in the system are ignorant of the behaviour of the system as a whole responding only to what is available to it locally



In fact, even chaos theory can be involved - this makes solving problems difficult and there will always be a random few cars built which have issues which no one can ever resolve fully. That's why you get a Honda with engine problems that cannot be fixed.

Sometimes the only solution is a whole new car. It is par for the course, a fact of life, the way of the world, etc.....

[grimlock]

In other words, s*** happens?
or happens rarely enough such no amount of refinement can completely eliminate the errors in the ultimate product.. so even Bmw will produce lemons once in a while, and will till the end of time..?

btw, which do you think is more 'basic' or pure, mathematics or philosophy?

[kel3]

i read about all the problems still picked up july 10 build sold as a 2011 and no problems.. Like i said my 335i had the fuel pump issues and spent 1 month at the dealer.. so I know how it feels to have a defected item but thats why I lease so to each their own...

[Titanflux]

Originally Posted by grimlock

In other words, s*** happens?
or happens rarely enough such no amount of refinement can completely eliminate the errors in the ultimate product.. so even Bmw will produce lemons once in a while, and will till the end of time..?

btw, which do you think is more 'basic' or pure, mathematics or philosophy?

In my opinion mathematics for sure.

[Hollymars]

Members,

I wish to log my utter frustration with our new BMW 530 D (March 10).

As I type this the vehicle is back in a BMW Dealership for the third time!

My problem is that the car will not start (keyless start) and then when it did eventually start this time it would not go in to gear (automatic transmission). then on driving the vehicle a number of faults register on the screen - no ignition start (even though I am driving the vehicle), abs fault, stabilisation fault, tyre pressure fault to mention but a few. It advises me not to drive excessive speeds and not to break hard and to go to my nearest BMW Garage.

The vehicle is now at different BMW Dealership Garage - bearing in mind that this is the third BMW Garage that it has been at.

Have I got a "lemon" and has any other owner experienced the above problems.

I am disgusted with the attitude of BMW and I am so sorry that we moved from Mercedes (I have gone from a C, E, CLK, ML and most recently the S Class) to BMW)

[pharding]

My 550i is uber spectacular and has been problem free.

[Hollymars]

Pharding, I am delighted for you that your 550i is uber spectacular but my 530 D Se with all the packages - Dynamic, Visibility, Reversing Cameras, Sports Paddles on the Steering and 19" RFt is anything but spectacular.