[Jon D]

Originally Posted by dgmc

Very interested to hear you got a run in new M5 and would be grateful if you could provide a review/comparison with your 535d with Adaptive Drive? Obviously mainly relating to suspension, handling and ride quality.

My comments here: http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=633942

[davesf]

Originally Posted by cookiesowns

The SAT ( At least on the E60 ) has "6" modes compared to the standard 3, of Auto, Sport, and Manual. With SAT you have the option of a sport button in the center console which changes the driving dynamics of the car significantly.

this is not the e60.

all 2012 f10s have the dynamic control button in the center. without dynamic suspension, it only adjusts transmission and steering. with the right options it adjusts suspension as well.

all f10s can manual shift and acces the 's' shifting mode by moving the center console stick.

Sorry if this is just a bunch of clutter to some, ( I know I wasn't exactly clear with what I typed ), but I'm getting annoyed to those saying SAT doesn't make a difference. It does.

im getting equally annoyed at driver 'claims' of f10 SAT having features it doesn't have (all cars get s-mode shifting and manual shifting, not just sat) or claims of a different SAT tranny config with no confirmed information (or even marketing claims) from bmw. as far as i can see this is just hopeful speculation on the part of SAT buyers.

its great to like the paddle shifters, but it's something else to spread FUD to prospective buyers that the should pay for SAT tranny performance when there is no tech info nor even bmw marketing claim that such a distinction exists.

as the owner of a sat car, i think the paddles kind of get in the way, and are not useful on this class of car. i personally don't see any performance difference, nor have i seen any confirmed tech info that descrbes a performance difference. IMO, most buyers should decide whether they want SAT or not based solely on their desire to have steering wheel paddle shifters and nothing else.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by davesf

im getting equally annoyed at driver 'claims' of f10 SAT having features it doesn't have (all cars get s-mode shifting and manual shifting, not just sat) or claims of a different SAT tranny config with no confirmed information (or even marketing claims) from bmw. as far as i can see this is just hopeful speculation on the part of SAT buyers.

its great to like the paddle shifters, but it's something else to spread FUD to prospective buyers that the should pay for SAT tranny performance when there is no tech info nor even bmw marketing claim that such a distinction exists.

as the owner of a sat car, i think the paddles kind of get in the way, and are not useful on this class of car. i personally don't see any performance difference, nor have i seen any confirmed tech info that descrbes a performance difference. IMO, most buyers should decide whether they want SAT or not based solely on their desire to have steering wheel paddle shifters and nothing else.

This seems to be an unavoidable conclusion.. only thing left is difference in shifting program (-software; ie. are there really 'faster' shifts?)

[10beers]

I agree with above comments. In the process of purchasing '12 F10 535xi with out SAT. Loaner they gave me after trade until new car is ready is a '12 535xi with SAT. Both performed the same with and without paddles when DDC is set to sport or sport plus. Loved paddles on my '11 e90, but they just don't feel right on the f10. I feel the same as well for the m sport wheel. It was better in the e90. I suppose it has to do with the heating element as part of CW package.

[The X Men]

Can the steering power assist and transmission shift point be adjust individually in a non-sport package 2012 535i???

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Can the steering power assist and transmission shift point be adjust individually in a non-sport package 2012 535i???

You still get D, S and M options on the shift lever and, if you have AD/VDC (Driving Dynamic Control in the US), you can toggle between Comfort, Normal, Sport and Sport+ modes, which vary front and rear roll bar stiffness, damper rates, gear shift points, throttle and steering response.
I have this option on my 535d and it's a remarkably efficient system.

[F11-Diesel]

Originally Posted by delvek

I found adaptive drive and ACS springs to give me the option to give feedback that one would want on a track. Excellent!

The sport transmission is more then just paddles, they have different hardware as has been discussed in a previous thread with diagrams from ZF. The shift speeds are different provided by the S "sport" mode.

Can you point us to the thread with the ZF diagrams?

[silvercreek]

Originally Posted by davesf

My US 550xi has 19" wheels, Dynamic Damper Control (in the US it comes with Sport) and Active Roll Stabilization (which I think is the US name for Adaptive Drive).

Here is my experience and research informed theory about these features...AFAIK...

1) DDC only controls the damper rate, not the spring rate. DDC equipped cars have a softer spring rate than M-suspension cars, because they need it to provide a soft-spring comfort setting. However, this means they retain a soft spring rate even in the sport setting, only the dampers are tightened up to provide a tighter ride.

2) If you want a ride closer to M-stiffness, you'll need to install stiffer aftermarket springs. This will also have an effect on your comfort ride.

3) A car with comfortably soft-springs (and a soft anti-roll-bar) will tend to roll more in cornering. ARS (Adaptive Drive) is an active system to counter-act that roll, and allows the car to ride "sport flat" in corners even though it's softer and more comfortable over bumps.

4) ARS has less to do in a car with M-suspension. Because it has stiffer springs and anti-roll bar for "sport handling always", it already doesn't roll much in corners. Also, an active-anti-roll system isn't desirable in sports driving, because when pushing the limits, one needs the feedback of slight body roll to help judge cornering forces. The large majority of racecars have passive (not active) anti-roll bars.

5) From experience, ARS is quite effective at allowing a comfortable ride to remain flat in 50mph sweeping highway corners (which we have in abundance near San Francisco). It's hard to say how much it's in action at lower speeds or around town. I

6) I bought ARS as a 'nice to have' and 'try it out' kind of feature. It's a hydraulic system, so it might have a minor impact on gas mileage. Hydraulics are fairly reliable, but in the long run it is something else mechanical to break. Based on my knowledge and experience, I'm pro ARS... especially for high-center-of-gravity cars like the X5/X6. For 5-series gentle-city or straight-highway driving, it's possibly less important. ARS can't do much without cornering forces to counteract.

7) Especially with RFTs, 18" wheels setups are more durable and more comfortable than 19/20" setups, but many find 19/20" setups look better.

I realize this thread is almost 2 years old, but I wanted to say that this post is the most helpful and clear explanation of ARS and DDC that I have come across. Well done!

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by bomax

I realize this thread is almost 2 years old, but I wanted to say that this post is the most helpful and clear explanation of ARS and DDC that I have come across. Well done!

+1. The only open question is what BMW is calling these various features this week.

[TopQuark]

Originally Posted by raleedy

+1. The only open question is what BMW is calling these various features this week.

+2

Great explanation by Davesf. This still stands the test of time even after 4 years.

I was wondering why my F10 drives a lot better and some people think otherwise. Now I know why.