[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bm323

Thanks nfnc.

Yes, I'm also curious over nfnc's question. HighlandPete's test 535i does not appear to have VDC (as it does not have the comfort setting) but yet the idrive appears to be able to configure the chassis?

Hope the last post answers it a bit better. I'm very curious as to what the I-Drive is really configuring when you have several options, including the word chassis.

HighlandPete

[Hultis]

I've test driven the new F10 both with and without the VDC. On the first drive it was a car without the VDC and a to be honest the ride in that car was a bit disappointing. After reading about how wonderfully the new F10 was supposed to perform on the road, I couldn't tell any difference from the E60 I used to drive a couple of years ago. Then I switched to an F10 with VDC and it was a different car. Not only was the drive more relaxed, especially in the comfort mode, but also it also made the car feel much better built. The roads in Sweden are terrible this time of the year, but in the VDC car the imperfections of the road didn't "rock" the car like they can do.

I drive a 335d with M sport chassis, so I don't mind a firm suspension. But there is a huge difference in how the suspension can absorb the shocks. In the VDC car you could surely feel that you were passing over a hole or a bump, but everything was very smooth. In the non-VDC car, it felt like the suspension simply couldn't absorb the sound and shock caused by the bump. Not very premium, if you ask me.

/Christian

[bm323]

Yes, thanks HighlandPete, await your update.

Originally Posted by Hultis

I've test driven the new F10 both with and without the VDC. On the first drive it was a car without the VDC and a to be honest the ride in that car was a bit disappointing. After reading about how wonderfully the new F10 was supposed to perform on the road, I couldn't tell any difference from the E60 I used to drive a couple of years ago. Then I switched to an F10 with VDC and it was a different car. Not only was the drive more relaxed, especially in the comfort mode, but also it also made the car feel much better built. The roads in Sweden are terrible this time of the year, but in the VDC car the imperfections of the road didn't "rock" the car like they can do.

I drive a 335d with M sport chassis, so I don't mind a firm suspension. But there is a huge difference in how the suspension can absorb the shocks. In the VDC car you could surely feel that you were passing over a hole or a bump, but everything was very smooth. In the non-VDC car, it felt like the suspension simply couldn't absorb the sound and shock caused by the bump. Not very premium, if you ask me.

/Christian

Hi Hultis, were the cars the same in all respects (including the wheel size and tyres) except for the VDC pls?

[Hultis]

Yes, the same wheel size, 18", only difference was that the non-VDC had a manual gearbox and the other one a sport automatic. Both were 523i. You could argue that part of the difference was due to the automatic gearbox in one of them, but the difference in ride quality was beyond that.

/Christian

[bm323]

Originally Posted by Hultis

Yes, the same wheel size, 18", only difference was that the non-VDC had a manual gearbox and the other one a sport automatic. Both were 523i. You could argue that part of the difference was due to the automatic gearbox in one of them, but the difference in ride quality was beyond that.

/Christian

I agree the automatic gearbox would not have explained the difference in suspension.

[bm323]

hi nfnc, with the sports transmission/steering wheel option only, I recall (if correctly) my SE commented that fuel consumption would go up if the f10 is on sport mode most of the the time. Also, would there be more wear and tear on the lower gears?

[carl_d]

I wish BMW would provide us with fuller details on which combination of options better suites varying roads and driver preferences? The marketing terms applied to the technology add no meaningful explanation and the limited detail provided is worthless. The larger part of the discussions in this thread proves this.

Come on BMW, customers cannot test drive all the combinations, and most dealers will not have all, we need some guidance.

I suggest a table of driver preference by suspension options would help. In comparison and as already published for paint/seat colour combinations, to help us avoid making huge mistakes when combining suspension and wheel options. Also, show the range of adjustablity, through colour coding, provided by the i-Drive and console buttons. These recommendation may also vary slight by market due to difference road types.

BMW you're confusing your customers and dealers, please provide better information!

Many of us here, will not order a new F10 until we are certain of our preferred ride/handling combinations. I could wait 12 months before knowing the best options or I could give up and defect to a Jag XF! In other words BMW you're loosing customers unless you provide clarity.

BMW, there is no point in hiding behind the launch test drives anymore, the truth has emerged! F10's ride and handle badly due to poor selection of chassis/wheel/tyre options!

[rexus300]

Why is this a big thing? I buy my cars and get rid of the RFTs and put decent non-RFTs on them and they are smooth and comfortable.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Why is this a big thing? I buy my cars and get rid of the RFTs and put decent non-RFTs on them and they are smooth and comfortable.

Personally I don't expect to have to change to 'normal' tyres to run a new BMW. I'm not against it, or I wouldn't be on my second set of non run-flat rubber on my current E91 330d. BUT, there is no spare wheel well on my current car, and isn't one in the new F10/11. That is the big issue, to have to use boot space to carry a spare is not the way forward. if BMW gave us the option I'd not be complaining at all, disappointed maybe, but there would be a simple solution. BMW have made that impossible.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I wish BMW would provide us with fuller details on which combination of options better suites varying roads and driver preferences? The marketing terms applied to the technology add no meaningful explanation and the limited detail provided is worthless. The larger part of the discussions in this thread proves this.

Come on BMW, customers cannot test drive all the combinations, and most dealers will not have all, we need some guidance.

I suggest a table of driver preference by suspension options would help. In comparison and as already published for paint/seat colour combinations, to help us avoid making huge mistakes when combining suspension and wheel options. Also, show the range of adjustablity, through colour coding, provided by the i-Drive and console buttons. These recommendation may also vary slight by market due to difference road types.

BMW you're confusing your customers and dealers, please provide better information!

Many of us here, will not order a new F10 until we are certain of our preferred ride/handling combinations. I could wait 12 months before knowing the best options or I could give up and defect to a Jag XF! In other words BMW you're loosing customers unless you provide clarity.

BMW, there is no point in hiding behind the launch test drives anymore, the truth has emerged! F10's ride and handle badly due to poor selection of chassis/wheel/tyre options!

Well said. You won't be the first, or last to be thinking, or stating what you have just written.

I've just picked up the May issue of WhatCar? and been reading the comments on the full test, 530d against the Merc, Audi and Jag. Also the comments on a 535i.

For the 535i, the headline is "New Five is only 'extras' Special"

WHATCAR? Says… Visit a few dealers and try a few cars before you buy

PITY ANYONE WHO has to order a new BMW 5 Series based on a test drive of just one model. There's a vast and potentially confusing list of options that the dealer is just waiting to wave in front of you, and some of them change the car's character completely. Get it wrong and the car you end up with might not be the one you wanted.......

Fully loaded, the 535i drives beautifully and exhibits that blend of control and comfort that has always been a 5 Series hallmark. It flows over any kind of surface and through any kind of corner with poise and precision, even with the 19-inch wheels.....

Scrimp on the options, though, and things aren't as rosy, as a drive in a 3.0-litre diesel 530d (see our comparison test on page 50) revealed. Without active steering and adaptive drive, the car is less well controlled and more fuzzy to steer (it’s the first 5-series with electronic power steering), and there's a niggling, knobbly quality to the low-speed ride. We're not saying that it's a bad car – it's just not a BMW. The trouble is that the £5000-plus cost of all this stuff will hit your company car tax, and it isn't even available on lower-end models.

For the full 530d test the WhatCar? comments are not too positive on the standard car.

BMWS HAVE TRADITIONALLY been the keen driver's choice, but we're wondering if the brand has reassessed its priorities with its new executive. The Five certainly grips well enough, but its body tends to lurch left and right as you go from corner to corner. Things are little better on the motorway, where undulations cause it to bob and float like a ship in a storm. The 5-Series always feels like a big car, and the steering is vague around the straight-ahead and has a rather artificial quality to it. If it's fun you're after, you'll be out of luck.

It's not as if BMW has traded sportiness for comfort, because the 5 Series' firm suspension sends shudders through the body over sharp bumps and potholes in town. Things improve significantly as you gain speed, though, and we expect the standard 17-inch alloy wheels will provide a more forgiving ride than the optional 19-inch wheels fitted to our test car.

Whereas the BMW feels its size, the Jaguar seems to shrink around you. It's easily the most enjoyable of these cars to drive, thanks to pin-sharp handling and steering that reacts quickly and tells you exactly what's going on. The ride is firm but it's never uncomfortable and the XF doesn't flinch over gnarly surfaces like the BMW does.

I do believe we'll find the WhatCar? comments pretty fair, they found the BMW a good car and the XF only just pipped it to 1st place. I'm sure if the ride and steering were better, typical BMW, then the BMW would have become king again.

I've been in communication with a guy who went to one of BMW's "drive and compare" days, just yesterday, he found a standard issue 530d on 19" wheels, was less than what he expected. He says it showed some run-flat traits and felt as if it had very little suspension over some potholed roads. He also felt the steering very light and not how he would expect an expensive BMW to behave.

So there's abit more to throw in the pot. We've been here before with the last generation E60/1 5-series.

HighlandPete

[bm323]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Why is this a big thing? I buy my cars and get rid of the RFTs and put decent non-RFTs on them and they are smooth and comfortable.

What's your basis pls for saying that getting rid of the RFTs will result in the f10 handle like what a BMW should?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by bm323

What's your basis pls for saying that getting rid of the RFTs will result in the f10 handle like what a BMW should?

I'm thinking the same way....

Even the current cars, E60/1 and E9* when fitted with non run-flats are not always sorted, just with tyres. There is so much discussion on what wheels and tyre brands really sort the cars, what the car's build date is, whether standard or M-sport suspension, is the car pre or post facelift, etc.

I know users who have tried the tyre solution and gone back to RFTs after a while, as the car is still not right, just different.

Surely we don't want to be going down that route with a brand new model, one which is supposed to be getting BMW back on track?

The standard offerings with normal tyres may be a complete mess with EPS, and be all over the place. May still need all the electronic gizmos to get a decent drive.

HighlandPete

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by baloo588

Why is this a big thing? I buy my cars and get rid of the RFTs and put decent non-RFTs on them and they are smooth and comfortable.

Changing to non-RFT may fix the ride but it could make the handling worse!
Also, in some European countries this will invalidate you insurance or may be illegal, as you must stick with the type approval, as the change will messes up the electronic (ABS, DSC etc) could even be extremely dangerous at higher speed (some tests have shown longer stopping distances with non-RFTs)

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Well said. You won't be the first, or last to be thinking, or stating what you have just written.

I've just picked up the May issue of WhatCar? and been reading the comments on the full test, 530d against the Merc, Audi and Jag. Also the comments on a 535i.

For the 535i, the headline is "New Five is only 'extras' Special"



For the full 530d test the WhatCar? comments are not too positive on the standard car.



I do believe we'll find the WhatCar? comments pretty fair, they found the BMW a good car and the XF only just pipped it to 1st place. I'm sure if the ride and steering were better, typical BMW, then the BMW would have become king again.

I've been in communication with a guy who went to one of BMW's "drive and compare" days, just yesterday, he found a standard issue 530d on 19" wheels, was less than what he expected. He says it showed some run-flat traits and felt as if it had very little suspension over some potholed roads. He also felt the steering very light and not how he would expect an expensive BMW to behave.

So there's abit more to throw in the pot. We've been here before with the last generation E60/1 5-series.

HighlandPete

Interesting but also keep in mind What Car, like Autocar, is a Haymarket publication and much is shared. Would also like to see another stable test the same standard set-up? Pete while your word is by far more worthy, we need others also.

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm thinking the same way....

Even the current cars, E60/1 and E9* when fitted with non run-flats are not always sorted, just with tyres. There is so much discussion on what wheels and tyre brands really sort the cars, what the car's build date is, whether standard or M-sport suspension, is the car pre or post facelift, etc.

I know users who have tried the tyre solution and gone back to RFTs after a while, as the car is still not right, just different.

Surely we don't want to be going down that route with a brand new model, one which is supposed to be getting BMW back on track?

The standard offerings with normal tyres may be a complete mess with EPS, and be all over the place. May still need all the electronic gizmos to get a decent drive.

HighlandPete

Exactly, why pay £40K for a car to find it needs tyres and chassis tunning - not on!

We had an E60 with sport suspension and 16" non-RFTs its ride was superb and it also handled very well for its size. (I did this to avoid the early RFTs and lack of tuning on the E60 for them)

[carl_d]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I wish BMW would provide us with fuller details on which combination of options better suites varying roads and driver preferences? The marketing terms applied to the technology add no meaningful explanation and the limited detail provided is worthless. The larger part of the discussions in this thread proves this.

Come on BMW, customers cannot test drive all the combinations, and most dealers will not have all, we need some guidance.

I suggest a table of driver preference by suspension options would help. In comparison and as already published for paint/seat colour combinations, to help us avoid making huge mistakes when combining suspension and wheel options. Also, show the range of adjustablity, through colour coding, provided by the i-Drive and console buttons. These recommendation may also vary slight by market due to difference road types.

BMW you're confusing your customers and dealers, please provide better information!

Many of us here, will not order a new F10 until we are certain of our preferred ride/handling combinations. I could wait 12 months before knowing the best options or I could give up and defect to a Jag XF! In other words BMW you're loosing customers unless you provide clarity.

BMW, there is no point in hiding behind the launch test drives anymore, the truth has emerged! F10's ride and handle badly due to poor selection of chassis/wheel/tyre options!

I've emailed BMW UK customer service with these suggestions, lets see what they say? I've included the link to this thread so fire away people.

[HighlandPete]

Another little bit of information on wheel sizing.

The 535i car I tried, had 19" wheels from the factory. The garage tried a set of 20" wheels for the 'look' factor. The first customer to test drive the car came back and said the ride was awful. Sort of shocked the guys, so they sent out an experienced sales guy over the same route, he came back stating exactly the same thing. so they removed the 20" and put the 19" back on. So 20" will ruin the ride quality... but I guarantee loads of F10s will have 20" wheels fitted. Says something about how ride quality doesn't mean much, to many drivers, even when they have a price tag of £45k or more, for a car.

I'm sure many will spend on the 'big' wheel option, rather than the Adaptive Drive. Even one of the 19" upgrades can be £2,260, compared to the £2,220 for Adaptive Drive,

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by carl_d

I've emailed BMW UK customer service with these suggestions, lets see what they say? I've included the link to this thread so fire away people.

Good idea... I'll write them as well, noting my experiences. Have communicated with them over the 3-series poor RFT performance. They know my views on no spare wheel or storage.

HighlandPete

[bm323]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've test driven two F10s 'back to back' and have to say the Autocar comments, so far, are making some sense. The standard car on 18" wheels is flawed. Based on the first test drive I wouldn't be ordering an F11 touring, as the run-flat tyres have too much influence on the steering and vibration back to the steering wheel, broken surfaces make the car fight for line and spoil the composure. Some weird sensations come back through the car on some surfaces. Cause a numbness and vague feel to the steering.

The second car had Dynamic Drive and was on 19" wheels, the car was much more composed even on the normal setting, steering more meaty and when switched to sport, the car was even more composed and settled. On poor or broken surfaces and twisty roads, the car was so much better than the standard car. No strange feedback or vagueness in the steering, even on normal setting.

The next test car will have the whole Adaptive Drive package, as I need the car to drive with more poise on poor road surfaces, but sporty when on some decent roads. So very interested to see how VDC works with the active roll bars.

To me, the run-flat shod wheels are still the issue here, and I'm to be convinced which size will work better on these cars, 18" don't work, IMO, the frequencies they generate, feed back in conflict with the suspension. Same as in the 3-series cars.

I'm surprised the 19" wheels work better than 18". The dealer has tried 20" wheels and they completely spoil the ride, I'm informed.


HighlandPete

Hi Highland Pete, the 18 inch on a standard f10 is not good. Any idea pls if 18 inch had been on your second test car with the option (compared to the 19 inch)?

[rexus300]

I am not sure how the F10 will ride. I guess we have to wait for others to find this out with the non-RFT. My 335xi coupe rides amazing and handles great with my michelin pilot exaltos non-RFT tires as compared to the RFT.

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by bm323

Hi Highland Pete, the 18 inch on a standard f10 is not good. Any idea pls if 18 inch had been on your second test car with the option (compared to the 19 inch)?

He tried it with 18" and 19" wheels, and found the one on 19" better. See below.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Tried the 530d auto with 18" wheels, followed by a 535i on 19" with the sport auto box.

HighlandPete

[bimmernic]

Originally Posted by carl_d

Interesting but also keep in mind What Car, like Autocar, is a Haymarket publication and much is shared. Would also like to see another stable test the same standard set-up? Pete while your word is by far more worthy, we need others also.

There is another test from what appears to be the exact same configuration (down to the exterior and interior colours ) with 18" RFTs (staggered combo) and standard suspension.

See: http://www.carenthusiast.com/reviews...ic+saloon.html