[Tyetiger]

I have a F10 2013 528i xDrive with auto start-stop. Recently my car refuses to start. I hear a big click like its trying to move and nothing..it acts like there isnt enough power to the starter. At first i thought it was an issue with the battery since it was relatively older (I replaced it and no change), I then then replaced the starter. (no change)..I replaced it I checked the voltage at the power wire to the alternator...I even checked the ground wire near the transmission and they all checked fine...I even checked the fuses.

One thing i have been unable to check is the Starter Relay. I checked realoem.com and it states the Starter relay should be around the fuse box on the passenger side but i dont see it any where. I checked around the battery and i didnt see it on the drivers side of the trunk.

Has anyone seen or know where in the world the Starter Relay for this car ???

[95blkmax]

F10s do not have a starter relay per say. On older cars you had a turn key cylinder that would make contact with the ignition switch upon rotation, the switch would then signal the starter relay, relay then powers up the starter solenoid and engine starts. On F10s, there's modules that take the function of a simple relay.

Lets start here- do you have a way to check for codes? Like getting into the modules kind of codes, be it Ista+, Etsy or w/e it's called, BimmerCode, Carly, etc...?

Failed starts always generate trouble codes in a bunch of modules. I'd start by reading codes, clearing them, then attempt to start again. If no start, see what codes came back and begin inspecting the corresponding components and their connections.

Starting function (and this is a rough functionality flowchart and I could be missing some stuff, as well as some items not in the correct order... but this is a rough example of all that's involved in starting an F10) involves:
- Hit the start button (dash) which signals Ign switch (side of the steering column)
- Ign switch antenna confirms your fob's signal being inside the cabin
- Ign switch sends that fob data to the CAS module to identify the fob as the one belonging to the car
- CAS module confirms fob and car's VIN match, and then sends a signal to DME that it's okay to turn on
- DME then signals all modules to power up, including the ISM (integrated supply module, located on top of your blower assembly upper cover, diagram 61_3753)
- ISM is what ultimately sends power signal to the starter solenoid (the starter has constant power and ground... but it doesn't kick on until the solenoid gets that signal from the ISM)
- NOW you should have a Start

Here's the problem- when the DME sends that power up signal to all the modules, if there are some modules that are having errors, the DME may choose to block a start from occurring in order to save the engine. i.e., if there's active trouble codes on the EKPS/. Hence, why I asked if you have any means to getting into the cars' modules' codes.

There's always the possibility of rodent damage. If you park outside, mice and rats love electrical wiring insulation (bean paste-based). We see it often, especially during the winter months with folks that park outside in rural areas.

I know I just threw a ton your way, but I hope that it helps to give you in the right direction. Good luck!

[Tyetiger]

Originally Posted by 95blkmax

F10s do not have a starter relay per say. On older cars you had a turn key cylinder that would make contact with the ignition switch upon rotation, the switch would then signal the starter relay, relay then powers up the starter solenoid and engine starts. On F10s, there's modules that take the function of a simple relay.

Lets start here- do you have a way to check for codes? Like getting into the modules kind of codes, be it Ista+, Etsy or w/e it's called, BimmerCode, Carly, etc...?

Failed starts always generate trouble codes in a bunch of modules. I'd start by reading codes, clearing them, then attempt to start again. If no start, see what codes came back and begin inspecting the corresponding components and their connections.

Starting function (and this is a rough functionality flowchart and I could be missing some stuff, as well as some items not in the correct order... but this is a rough example of all that's involved in starting an F10) involves:
- Hit the start button (dash) which signals Ign switch (side of the steering column)
- Ign switch antenna confirms your fob's signal being inside the cabin
- Ign switch sends that fob data to the CAS module to identify the fob as the one belonging to the car
- CAS module confirms fob and car's VIN match, and then sends a signal to DME that it's okay to turn on
- DME then signals all modules to power up, including the ISM (integrated supply module, located on top of your blower assembly upper cover, diagram 61_3753)
- ISM is what ultimately sends power signal to the starter solenoid (the starter has constant power and ground... but it doesn't kick on until the solenoid gets that signal from the ISM)
- NOW you should have a Start

Here's the problem- when the DME sends that power up signal to all the modules, if there are some modules that are having errors, the DME may choose to block a start from occurring in order to save the engine. i.e., if there's active trouble codes on the EKPS/. Hence, why I asked if you have any means to getting into the cars' modules' codes.

There's always the possibility of rodent damage. If you park outside, mice and rats love electrical wiring insulation (bean paste-based). We see it often, especially during the winter months with folks that park outside in rural areas.

I know I just threw a ton your way, but I hope that it helps to give you in the right direction. Good luck!

That is alot of useful information! One key information i forgot to mention is that i was driving on the highway when it began to cut off. I pulled over and i was not able to start it again.

But I read the codes on Ista+ previously (I wish i saved them) but they were related to modules being under powered because the battery was running low because of my multiple attempts to started it.

I ultimately recharged the battery, I was able to get the one click and one weak "turn" of the engine, but I wasn't able to replicate it again...I then cleared all codes to try and get some kind of codes regarding some kind of failure but nothing.

[95blkmax]

Man that is odd!unless what we need are 2-cycle codes. there are codes on these DMEs that require 2 cycles to pop up (such as for example, the secondary o2 sensors on a car that got a catless downpipe and wasnt re-tuned). Maybe attempt to start again and check for codes. That's unusual though

[Tyetiger]

I'm going to try again in the morning. I'm also going to check the connections on the ism and dme to see if there is any corrosion and keep you posted. Thanks for your help!

[Tyetiger]

So I took the battery off the charger and placed it back into the car. Attempted to start it a few times, and the second try i got an Injection system error, the 3rd time i got a Drive train error. I connected Ista+ to it and i got the following

[Tyetiger]

With jumpers on the car, the battery registered at 13.7v before crank. At crank i get 9.19v. To my understanding that should be enough. I still only get one click, no start

[95blkmax]

Originally Posted by Tyetiger

With jumpers on the car, the battery registered at 13.7v before crank. At crank i get 9.19v. To my understanding that should be enough. I still only get one click, no start

Voltage is a good reference but not what starts the car. Amperage is what starts it. You mentioned earlier having been charging this battery, but on the first post you said you replaced it. Is this or is this not a new battery?

I used to be a national accounts manager at interstate batteries. I can tell you that any fully charged battery that under load testing (when fully charged, load test it with an amp draw of that particular battery's CCA rating), and drops voltage below 9.5V... it is considered a bad battery. I'm just making sure you don't possibly have a bad cell in your battery and this is all a simple fix

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Tyetiger

With jumpers on the car, the battery registered at 13.7v before crank. At crank i get 9.19v. To my understanding that should be enough. I still only get one click, no start

Not near enough.

[Tyetiger]

Quick update...For Haha's, I decided to see if I can manually move the engine by turning it by the crank shaft bolt and it wouldnt move at all. I guess the "Haha" is on me, sounds like a seized engine

[95blkmax]

Originally Posted by Tyetiger

Quick update...For Haha's, I decided to see if I can manually move the engine by turning it by the crank shaft bolt and it wouldnt move at all. I guess the "Haha" is on me, sounds like a seized engine

noooooo. lol im sorry to hear!