[KhanhtactMe]

For all of you non-paddle shifters out there, how often do you find yourselves using the steptronic to shift? I am using it 90% of the time and love the backfire of the exhaust on downshifts. Not nearly as fast as the paddle shifters, but it works for me...

[SonicEndeavor]

I use it quite often, especially to slow in traffic without using my brakes. I wish more people would do the same because the more people use their brakes, the slower traffic moves due to the chain reaction caused by all the brake lights.
It still makes no sense that BMW shifters are backwards from the rest of the world (forward to downshift backwards to upshift), so I ordered paddle shifters for my 2014 LCI.
Anyway, like you, I enjoy manually shifting, especially when driving the car hard.

[immx]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

....
It still makes no sense that BMW shifters are backwards from the rest of the world (forward to downshift backwards to upshift).....

To be honest, it's BMW that have it right and the rest that have it wrong. If you look at the sequential shift in any form of motor sport, they all have it this way round.

When you are braking hard and down shifting, the weight of the car and the g forces are towards the front, so forwards to down shift is natural. When accelerating hard the momentum and g forces are to the rear, thus pulling back to go up the gears is more natural.

[Tuffyboy]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

I use it quite often, especially to slow in traffic without using my brakes. I wish more people would do the same because the more people use their brakes, the slower traffic moves due to the chain reaction caused by all the brake lights.
It still makes no sense that BMW shifters are backwards from the rest of the world (forward to downshift backwards to upshift), so I ordered paddle shifters for my 2014 LCI.
Anyway, like you, I enjoy manually shifting, especially when driving the car hard.

Brakes are cheap in comparison to engines. Not sure using the engine to slow you is the best choice.

[SonicEndeavor]

Originally Posted by immx

To be honest, it's BMW that have it right and the rest that have it wrong. If you look at the sequential shift in any form of motor sport, they all have it this way round.

When you are braking hard and down shifting, the weight of the car and the g forces are towards the front, so forwards to down shift is natural. When accelerating hard the momentum and g forces are to the rear, thus pulling back to go up the gears is more natural.

I've heard that argument before, but these are not race cars, they're passenger cars and it's counterintuitive. The rest of the industry does it logically and correctly. BMW engineers have a stubborn streak - case in point the ridiculous shift lever that anyone driving your car for the first time needs a lesson on how to use.

[SonicEndeavor]

Originally Posted by Tuffyboy

Brakes are cheap in comparison to engines. Not sure using the engine to slow you is the best choice.

It's what engines and transmissions are designed to do. Every time you take your foot off the gas pedal the engine and transmission slow the car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

I've heard that argument before, but these are not race cars, they're passenger cars and it's counterintuitive. The rest of the industry does it logically and correctly. BMW engineers have a stubborn streak - case in point the ridiculous shift lever that anyone driving your car for the first time needs a lesson on how to use.

I love this sort of comment... if you know the BMW history you will be aware BMW used to have the selection the other way around (as in my 1998 E39 build) and BMW changed it to the present configuration over 10-years ago. Why? Many felt the old way was not intuitive and was the wrong way around. At the time there was the "at last" type comment, and "BMW have now got it right" by many BMW users. They can't win can they?

HighlandPete

[K-A]

Originally Posted by immx

To be honest, it's BMW that have it right and the rest that have it wrong. If you look at the sequential shift in any form of motor sport, they all have it this way round.

When you are braking hard and down shifting, the weight of the car and the g forces are towards the front, so forwards to down shift is natural. When accelerating hard the momentum and g forces are to the rear, thus pulling back to go up the gears is more natural.

Good point. I like it how it is now, feels natural and more sportily inspired.

Originally Posted by Tuffyboy

Brakes are cheap in comparison to engines. Not sure using the engine to slow you is the best choice.

Agreed. I always hear people say "I use the engine do slow down to save on brakes". Brakes are easily replaceable. Engines are designed to withstand this, but load is load, and you're putting load on the engine, and wasting more gas, and putting more load on the tranny. I like to upshift when stopping so there's no load at all on the engine. If I bought a used car I would much rather have one who's brakes were used to stop the car MUCH rather than who's engine/transmission/drivetrain were.

Also, brake lights help people to not hammer into your behind.

[KhanhtactMe]

I get on the brakes a bit when there's a car close behind me to let them know I'm slowing down/stopping. Despite it being counter-intuitive, I actually like the way the shifter is right now with upshifts going down and downshifts going up. Just feels more natural that way, but that's just me. Just to clarify, even with paddle shifters on the F10 (non-M5), it is not DCT, correct?

[steve-p]

Originally Posted by SonicEndeavor

I've heard that argument before, but these are not race cars, they're passenger cars and it's counterintuitive. The rest of the industry does it logically and correctly. BMW engineers have a stubborn streak - case in point the ridiculous shift lever that anyone driving your car for the first time needs a lesson on how to use.

Forward to downshift and backwards to upshift makes perfect sense to me, as it would to most people brought up on manual gearboxes. It's exactly the same action as the direct (non dogleg) shifts from 1-2/2-1/3-4/4-3/5-6/6-5 in a manual car. I don't really care if other manufacturers did it differently. Why invent a system that's completely opposite to the thing it's trying to imitate?

[K-A]

BMW has it right in steptronic shifts. Up to upshift is good for an econobox that has no sporting heritage, perhaps, but on a car who's steptronic is designed for "spirited" use, banging it down to upshift is the only way to do it.

[Marksman63]

I always use my arms and legs for driving. Arms for steering and up/downshifting. Right food on throttle and left food on brakes.

[2k15f30]

Originally Posted by K-A

Good point. I like it how it is now, feels natural and more sportily inspired.



Agreed. I always hear people say "I use the engine do slow down to save on brakes". Brakes are easily replaceable. Engines are designed to withstand this, but load is load, and you're putting load on the engine, and wasting more gas, and putting more load on the tranny. I like to upshift when stopping so there's no load at all on the engine. If I bought a used car I would much rather have one who's brakes were used to stop the car MUCH rather than who's engine/transmission/drivetrain were.

Also, brake lights help people to not hammer into your behind.

I'm certainly no expert however I disagree here, as I understand it while downshifting the fuel injectors are off 100% and the momentum is what is keeping the crank running. At the very least the injectors are not supplying more fuel than idle during downshifts. Does anyone know exactly how this operates for our cars?

[AC_S5]

I think the injector does not shut off 100%, if so then it would be like running out of gas and engine will stall despite there's still forward momentum. I think the engine will alter the gas being injected just enough to keep the engine running. If someone can confirm it than great.

As for BMW engineers being stubborn or unconventional for doing things the other way, I would call them innovative. For example on the E90, the paddle shift if you have that option is pull to upshift and push to downshift no matter which paddle you use. The concept comes from formula 1 where the right paddle is use for a hand operated clutch. Given BMW being a sports sedan the engineers are race inspired, it is no surprise that they do it that way but when everyone complaint, they ditch that pull and push system for the left downshift and right upshift where everyone is used to, no sign of stubbornness in that aspect.

As for the gearbox, the same system is being used on the new Range Rover as well and for the newer Chrysler and Dodge. I think it have to do with the fact that the gearbox is from ZF, maybe BMW have some input.

I personally think the new gearbox is great, light pull to move from R to N to D, hard pull will get you directly to R or D depending on which gear you in and a button for park. It take sometime getting used to but if you are used to it, you don't really need to look down to see if you are in R instead of P, you will know you are in the right gear everytime. But to each their own, some prefer a good old stick like the ones in an econobox but the gearbox is good for me.

So I couldn't say BMW engineers are stubborn, but it is human nature to call something unconventional when something is different from the way they are used to. I think is innovative.

[RambleJ]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I love this sort of comment... if you know the BMW history you will be aware BMW used to have the selection the other way around (as in my 1998 E39 build) and BMW changed it to the present configuration over 10-years ago. Why? Many felt the old way was not intuitive and was the wrong way around. At the time there was the "at last" type comment, and "BMW have now got it right" by many BMW users. They can't win can they?

HighlandPete

I agree, the way BMW has it now makes more sense and feels more intuitive for me as an avid driver.

[Crocket]

I had both versions of BMW's Steptronic transmission and much prefer the curent version. To confuse matters even more I also had a Mercedes 200E with their version of BMW steptronic. To manually change "up" you pushed the gearleaver to the left and to the right to change "Down". try figure that one out.

[sanf]

every time when I drive. I have the paddle shifter but rarely use it

[AC_S5]

Originally Posted by Crocket

I had both versions of BMW's Steptronic transmission and much prefer the curent version. To confuse matters even more I also had a Mercedes 200E with their version of BMW steptronic. To manually change "up" you pushed the gearleaver to the left and to the right to change "Down". try figure that one out.

The left and right shifting is a Chrysler innovation, a product of the Daimler Chrysler venture, which took away the over engineering of Mercedes product and added the handling characteristics from the Grand Caravan to the whole Mercedes line up. Pretty much destroy the brand.