I have the same setup, 18" on continentals and have experienced similar issues with the steering on motorways..... It seems incredibly camber sensitive so you have to apply more pressure on the left hand to counter UK motorways. Almost feels like the tracking is off, but get it on the flat and it seems fine. I'm getting some 17" winter wheels so it will be interesting to see if the steering is impacted on change over....

Just to add, it's not a major issue, and is only noticeable because the rest of the car is so luxurious and comfortable... Perfectly quiet, comfort seats, active cruise, etc, and then steering that isn't perfect...

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by eaglesrest

I have the same setup, 18" on continentals and have experienced similar issues with the steering on motorways..... It seems incredibly camber sensitive so you have to apply more pressure on the left hand to counter UK motorways. Almost feels like the tracking is off, but get it on the flat and it seems fine. I'm getting some 17" winter wheels so it will be interesting to see if the steering is impacted on change over....

..and then steering that isn't perfect...

If your 'similar issue' is at around 70 - 80mph, then that makes at least 4 UK users on the forum saying the same in recent days. Being specific, more defined than the 'less than precise' steering we've read of and experienced.

Certainly interested in the winter tyre change... will it be a RFT set, or non RFT?

HighlandPete

[N16E]

Having driven the loan 523 M Sport (on 19") for a couple of days, I can say the difference is like night and day....it's a joy to drive compared to mine. I have an open ended loan, so I'm not sure how long mine is going to take to sort, but rest assured I will post here when I get it back.

N16E

[exoprotoss]

Originally Posted by N16E

Having driven the loan 523 M Sport (on 19") for a couple of days, I can say the difference is like night and day....it's a joy to drive compared to mine. I have an open ended loan, so I'm not sure how long mine is going to take to sort, but rest assured I will post here when I get it back.

N16E

Hi! Was 523 M sport equipped with M sport suspension? I’m getting 535D F10 M sport and thinking of getting M sport suspension? Any insights into quality of drive and sportiness of handling would be very much appreciated! Thx!

[N16E]

Hi exoprotoss,

Sorry, as it's a loaner I don't know. You can select between normal, sport and sport plus, and from memory can choose chassis and transmission combinations. What I can say is it's definately more refined than the E60 M Sport that I had.

N16E

[pharding]

Thank you so much for your insights and feedback on this important issue with the F10. Does your loaner have a comfort setting? Please ask the dealership to enter the VIN into their software and this will pull up the options on the car. Please post that list of options here which will help us sort this out.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by N16E

Having driven the loan 523 M Sport (on 19") for a couple of days, I can say the difference is like night and day....it's a joy to drive compared to mine. I have an open ended loan, so I'm not sure how long mine is going to take to sort, but rest assured I will post here when I get it back.

N16E

From the posts I'm sensing the steering is worse on 18" wheels. This is my own expereince, the two cars with 19" wheels were much better. One had the sport auto, the steering was superb in the sport setting, the other with Adaptive Drive and standard auto was good, but didn't tighten up the same in sport, as the one with sport auto. The two cars with 18" wheels, 530d and 520d touring had steering which needed correcting, and/or was vague around mid position.

To me this wheel size issue (if we can prove it) is not a new problem. E90/1 cars had similar problems, at least in the early days. 17" wheels seemed to show more issues with lack of straight line precision and vagueness, than running 18" wheel sets. Still believe wheels/tyres are part of the problem.

HighlandPete

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by pharding

Thank you so much for your insights and feedback on this important issue with the F10. Does your loaner have a comfort setting? Please ask the dealership to enter the VIN into their software and this will pull up the options on the car. Please post that list of options here which will help us sort this out.

M-sports in the UK will typically be simple passive suspension, (OEM fit in the UK). The comment of "normal to sport+" settings, indicates the loaner is a passive system, so no Adaptive Drive.

HighlandPete

[bimmerfrei]

I have a 528 on 18 inch run flats. The steering is pure rubbish. No real feeling of the road and unless the road is completely flat it wanders from left to right. It's been back to the dealer twice for update and it's become a little bit better. But no matter what, it is very sensitive to the road condition. Will be swapping to 19 or 20 inch rims without run flat tyres directly after the winter.

/Christian

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

If your 'similar issue' is at around 70 - 80mph, then that makes at least 4 UK users on the forum saying the same in recent days. Being specific, more defined than the 'less than precise' steering we've read of and experienced.

Certainly interested in the winter tyre change... will it be a RFT set, or non RFT?

HighlandPete

I did a drive from Leeds to Hull (65mph) and Hull to Leeds (75mph). I didn't notice at the time, but thinking back the steering did seem to require more counter force on the return journey. What I have noticed since is that 90% of the time there is no pull. It goes straight. Then for no apparent reason it will start steering to the right, even approaching roundabouts. It's like it hits some kind of camber and the steering gets exposed.

If it was just me driving the car I would get non-RFT's and a puncture repair kit, but with the missus and kids using it frequently I'm going to stick with RFT's for winter tyres. That's assuming BMW ever get any in stock.

PS MPG on the journey was 52, real word 51mpg after a brim to brim test. Its since dropped to 43mpg with purely urban driving.

[grimlock]

On 17inch runflats the steering is same as 19 non-RFs .. the car 'wanders' slightly sometimes when the road is uneven or sloped .. but nothing that I would complain about. My shallow guess is that its a function of the very weak return-to-center steering force, which would be a setting of this particular car that differs from previous bmws (a guess).
If the push-back on the steering is stronger, the car would go straight (minus any actual alignment issues) ... ?

[grimlock]

But this particular steering feel I guess is deliberate to make the f10 drive more luxuriously rather than sporty.. (minus the base suspension set-up, which differs in the front from the e60 by adopting the 7series set-up (based on the diagrams at realoem))

[BimmerGuyFL]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

From the posts I'm sensing the steering is worse on 18" wheels. This is my own expereince, the two cars with 19" wheels were much better. One had the sport auto, the steering was superb in the sport setting, the other with Adaptive Drive and standard auto was good, but didn't tighten up the same in sport, as the one with sport auto. The two cars with 18" wheels, 530d and 520d touring had steering which needed correcting, and/or was vague around mid position.

To me this wheel size issue (if we can prove it) is not a new problem. E90/1 cars had similar problems, at least in the early days. 17" wheels seemed to show more issues with lack of straight line precision and vagueness, than running 18" wheel sets. Still believe wheels/tyres are part of the problem.

HighlandPete

I disagree, I had a 2008 E92 335i with sports and had all types of issues with pulling and steering, even had new tires and MANY alignment's done. I now just got a 2010 328i E90 Sports and it is day and night. The 328i tracks perectly straight and no pulling. the 335i had 18" and the 328i has 17".

[bm323]

Imo some of these steering complaints are defects and quality control is weak. If I recall correctly, Jon also has posted that the F10 wanders (right and/or left I think) when going straight. This is certainly not acceptable.

[N16E]

OK, heres the update -
1 week, 1 steering rack, 1 160 mile test drive, 1 ZF engineer from Germany & 1 master BMW technician later my car is fixed......

When the BMW Technician intially drove my car he immediately told me he knew it wasn't right, and diagnosed it as the steering rack, thinking ahead they ordered one, last Friday the ZF engineer and Technician drove my car 160 miles hooked up to a laptop performing various tests, during the test drive the ZF engineer said the "forces" were within tolerance, however the BMW technician told him it wasn't right (he told me it made his arm hurt). The ZF engineer was reluctant to change the rack, but after some discussion (small argument) he agreed. When I quizzed the technician about what was wrong with the rack things became a little unclear, he did mention a "software issue", however this seems odd, they changed some hardware and it resolved a software issue...anyhow the rack is going back to ZF (this is not the normal practice) for further tests, and my case has been logged in PUMA (BMW knowledge database). If your steering feels odd at speed (it's really is horrid) then you may have a similar issue.

Good work Rybrook BMW especially Ian (technician)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by BimmerGuyFL

I disagree, I had a 2008 E92 335i with sports and had all types of issues with pulling and steering, even had new tires and MANY alignment's done. I now just got a 2010 328i E90 Sports and it is day and night. The 328i tracks perectly straight and no pulling. the 335i had 18" and the 328i has 17".

Not sure we disagree, I did say...

To me this wheel size issue (if we can prove it) is not a new problem. E90/1 cars had similar problems, at least in the early days. 17" wheels seemed to show more issues with lack of straight line precision and vagueness, than running 18" wheel sets. Still believe wheels/tyres are part of the problem.

That doesn't mean no one with other wheel sizes didn't have issues. For the F10/11 cars, in time, it may not prove to be a certain sized wheel that is the basic fault, but at present it appears that way. Also, BMW still fit 17" wheels on many 3-series, hopefully they have sorted it by some means, mods to the suspension, geometry or tyre specification. I hope the same for the F10/11, whether it is hardware and/or software or in time, different tyre specification, but one wheel size can throw an issue into the arena, more than others.

HighlandPete

[N16E]

Originally Posted by N16E

OK, heres the update -
1 week, 1 steering rack, 1 160 mile test drive, 1 ZF engineer from Germany & 1 master BMW technician later my car is fixed......

When the BMW Technician intially drove my car he immediately told me he knew it wasn't right, and diagnosed it as the steering rack, thinking ahead they ordered one, last Friday the ZF engineer and Technician drove my car 160 miles hooked up to a laptop performing various tests, during the test drive the ZF engineer said the "forces" were within tolerance, however the BMW technician told him it wasn't right (he told me it made his arm hurt). The ZF engineer was reluctant to change the rack, but after some discussion (small argument) he agreed. When I quizzed the technician about what was wrong with the rack things became a little unclear, he did mention a "software issue", however this seems odd, they changed some hardware and it resolved a software issue...anyhow the rack is going back to ZF (this is not the normal practice) for further tests, and my case has been logged in PUMA (BMW knowledge database). If your steering feels odd at speed (it's really is horrid) then you may have a similar issue.

Good work Rybrook BMW especially Ian (technician)

Not sure how true/relevant it is, but the technician also told me BMW had dropped EPS in favour of Hydraulic on the 3 series (unless specified)

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by N16E

OK, heres the update -
1 week, 1 steering rack, 1 160 mile test drive, 1 ZF engineer from Germany & 1 master BMW technician later my car is fixed......

When the BMW Technician intially drove my car he immediately told me he knew it wasn't right, and diagnosed it as the steering rack, thinking ahead they ordered one, last Friday the ZF engineer and Technician drove my car 160 miles hooked up to a laptop performing various tests, during the test drive the ZF engineer said the "forces" were within tolerance, however the BMW technician told him it wasn't right (he told me it made his arm hurt). The ZF engineer was reluctant to change the rack, but after some discussion (small argument) he agreed. When I quizzed the technician about what was wrong with the rack things became a little unclear, he did mention a "software issue", however this seems odd, they changed some hardware and it resolved a software issue...anyhow the rack is going back to ZF (this is not the normal practice) for further tests, and my case has been logged in PUMA (BMW knowledge database). If your steering feels odd at speed (it's really is horrid) then you may have a similar issue.

Good work Rybrook BMW especially Ian (technician)

Great news... but for me as an engineer, "in tolerance" but a new rack solving the problem isn't really good news. Means there can be a lot of cars out there with a tolerance stack that doesn't work in real driving. I've been here in the past with mechanical assemblies, either tolerances have to be tightened, or we have to have A/B built stacks to keep tolerances tight.

I do hope it turns out to be a faulty rack, once inspected at ZF, that could open up other users to solutions. If the interrogation is still reported as "in tolerance" we have troubles ahead, IMO.

HighlandPete

[DNA_42]

I have exactly the same as N16E in my 520d. If I am driving at 60+ mph, the higher the worse it gets, and there is adverse camber, or a bad road surface, or God forbid, strong wind, then I am constantly having to make small adjustments to keep the car straight. It is very annoying and on a long run fatiguing as the level of concentration has to be higher. I also wonder if it is damaging the tyres at a faster rate than normal driving.

I have been back to the dealer and the salesperson told me she had the same on her F10 and that you get used to it and don't even notice it after a while. I have done 2,000 miles and it is in fact less noticeable now, but it is still there. She had done 6,000. I am not sure if I should tell them it is unacceptable and get them to test it and try to fix it. What do you think. I think I will once the cup holders have been sorted out (see below).

I think it is the electronic steering that is at fault; I think the steering is just too sensitive to changes in road conditions, this is exacerbated at higher speeds.

Typically, I will be driving along minding my own business, listening to a certain Mr Grohl on the car's excellent, standard, audio system, and the there will be a dip on one side of the carriageway and I will have to make a small adjustment, not a huge problem you might think, but it is always there in the background and it diminishes the driving experience. I have had 20+ cars over the years and this has never been an issue before. Not even a hint of this.

My car is a fairly standard auto set up with 17" RFTs.

The only other two gripes I have are the extraordinarily internally-reflective windscreen, which in certain light conditions can be quite distracting and the fact that both my ashtray and cup holder lids have jammed shut. I think there is probably a coin stuck in each - this should not happen!

Apart from these three things I love the car, but the first problem is so annoying (at the moment) that I wish I had bought another Merc or the previous generation of 5 series. I think it going to have to go in.

I would be interested to hear what other people say and their updates.

Thanks if you got this far!
DNA

[JohanHE]

Hi,
I have the same problem and contacted my dealer about this several times.
I made a test drive in an other car but that was even worse.
Now they have made an appointment to modify the mounting of the front shockabsorbers. According to them these absorbers are not mounted as they should be.
See what comes out of this.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by N16E

..... during the test drive the ZF engineer said the "forces" were within tolerance, however the BMW technician told him it wasn't right (he told me it made his arm hurt). The ZF engineer was reluctant to change the rack, but after some discussion (small argument) he agreed. ...

What a bunch of irresponsible horsesh1t on the part of ZF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Deny. Deny. Deny.

This demonstrates part of the problem for steering design for BMW lately. If you rely on instrumernts and ignore "feel", you can end up with things that get good ratings on instruments that can still feel lousy to human beings.

[pharding]

Originally Posted by N16E

Not sure how true/relevant it is, but the technician also told me BMW had dropped EPS in favour of Hydraulic on the 3 series (unless specified)

Great news for the F30 and potentially great news for US. Hopefully BMW will offer hydraulic steering ASAP on the F10 which is probably years away.